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Jane Doe Deer
Jane Doe Deer, Attorney
Category: Legal
Satisfied Customers: 3864
Experience:  Atty. 27+ years; Plain English answers to family law, employment, landlord-tenant, & other questions
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Im trying to get a Nurse Assistant license in Maine. I was

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I'm trying to get a Nurse Assistant license in Maine. I was trained in NH and want to move to Maine. After contacting the State, they sent me the laws governing the Registry. One of the laws state:

Temporary Listing exception: A CNA who received training in another jurisdiction that does not meet the requirements for certification in Maine may request temporary listing on the Maine Registry , pending completion of the MSBON prescribed Bridge Examination. The temporary listing shall be in effect for a maximum of 4 months and shall not be renewed. MSBON rules, 02-380 CMR Ch5, Section 5 (B)

After reading this law, I sent in my application and a letter stating I want to invoke this rule. But in return I received a letter stating they would give me 4 months of temporary listing while I took the entire course over. The two biggest problems with this is I can't find a permanent position with a temporary listing, and I'm only 12 hours short of the 180 hours Maine requires.

They also state the credit for the class HAS to be taken at one time, I have found no such law, rule or regulation. In fact, according to Fed laws, any CNA that got trained before July 31,1989 could make up what they were lacking in hours by taking continuing education credits. I know some of the laws haven't been updated since 1987. Is there any way I can still use this law to my advantage?

Since the State only wants to offer one part of a law and not the whole thing, what can I do? I'm planning an appeal but don't know exactly how to word what they are doing. Can you help?
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Legal
Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

Thank you for contacting Just Answer. I look forward to assisting you.

 

While we write back and forth, please keep in mind that I do not know what you already know or don't know, or with what you need help, unless you tell me. Sometimes I'm unable to read your entire question until AFTER I write back to you.

 

Although it's usually five minutes, sometimes there can be a delay of an hour or more in between my answers because I may be researching the answer to your question, helping other customers, or taking a break. If we are writing late at night, I may have to go to sleep and resume helping you the following morning.

 

I need the following information before I can answer your question:

 

Good morning. Did the state provide a form to you for an appeal or do you have to make up your own? Are you sure you're still within the time period for an appeal?

 

 

 

I'll look forward to hearing from you,

 

Jane Doe Deer

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I need to write a letter to the Director of Licensing & Reg Services. Yes, I'm within the 30 days I have to reply.

Mona
Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

Great. Let's take some time today and work through your appeal. I can't give you legal advice, but I have tons of in-house administrative experience.

 

First, type out a chronological list of relevant events (just events) the ALJ (it may not be an Administrative Law Judge, but that's just a handy short thing for me to write out for you).

 

For example:

 

1/1/00 Graduated from high school (or GED, or whatever).

 

1/1/00 Received my Nursing graduation (or whatever).

 

See my point? Step one - organize. (If you know how to use Excel, use Excel, because it's easy to sort by date or add lines where you forgot something).

 

When you're done with the list, label it with your contact information on the front page, and at least your last name on additional pages (eg, Jane Doe Deer page two on the bottom of each page - this is in case the pages get separated). If you have a case number, put that on each page, too.

 

Sign and date the date you put this together. You now have an exhibit for your appeal!

 

Now, on another page, list any training, experience, etc. that for some reason wouldn't fit on your chronological list. Label it and call it Exhibit 2 (or Two).

 

Now, before we get to the letter itself, do you have any questions so far?

 

I'll go pour myself a cup of hot chocolate, and will write back after I hear back again from you.

 

By the way, the reason I don't use "chat" on Just Answer is that I have technical problems whenever I do. Things I write get lost, etc. I know that this format is a little slower, and appreciate your patience!

 

Jane

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I'll work on my chronological list. I already wrote up a letter. Please see it below. I have a feeling I need to change it a bit.

Catherine M. Cobb, Director

Director of the Division of Licensing & Regulatory Services

Department of Health & Human Services

41 Anthony Street

#11 State House Station

Augusta, ME 04333

Dear Director Cobb,

I am requesting an Administrative Hearing to appeal the CNA Registry’s decision to deny my entrance on to the Registry. This appeal is based on 10-144 CMR Ch 128 Section 6 6.3.1

According to the MSBON rule 02-380 CMR Ch 5, section 5 (B) – Temporary listing exception – A CNA who received training in another jurisdiction that does not meet the requirements for certification in Maine may request temporary listing on the Maine Registry, pending completion of the MSBON prescribed Bridge Examination. The temporary listing shall be in effect for a maximum of 4 months and shall not be renewed.”

Because I do not meet the requirements to get on to the Registry without a Bridge Examination, I should be allowed to take the Bridge Examination according to the rule stated above.

Also according to 10-144 CMR Ch 128, section 3 3.2.3.2 – Test for non-traditional CNAs, testing may be taken by qualified CNAs including but not limited to a CNA who received training in another jurisdiction that is at least equal to the Maine minimum of approved CNA training required by the rules. My interpretation of this rule is CNAs not meeting the minimum requirements can take the test based on the training they received if it covered all the Prescribed Curriculum for CNAs. I have completed an LNA training course in New Hampshire totaling 168 hours (12 hours short of the Maine minimum.) Since this course is the most comprehensive in New Hampshire and many other states and far out qualifies its participants than the Federal requirements, I fit into the “including but not limited to” portion of the rule according to the language of MSBON rule 02-380 CMR Ch 5, section 5 (B).

In conversations with the CNA Registry, it was stated that I could not make up the 12 hours by Continuing Education Units (CEU’s) or additional training or classes. As per Federal Regulation Title 42 Section 483.150 (b)(1)(ii), I could meet the requirements if I took CEU’s or “supervised nurse aid training.” I have offered to take a Phlebotomy course (which requires you be an LNA) in order to make up the hours I’m missing. I currently have 4 CEU’s offered by the State of New Hampshire. The fact that I willingly offered to take a twenty (20) hour plus course that would be considered beyond the CNA training spectrum, and was still denied is unreasonable.

In a letter dated October 18, 2010, the Registry stated I could be granted a 4 month temporary listing while I take the Maine CNA course while working as a CNA. It is unacceptable that the Registry be allowed to grant portions of rules and laws and not the entire rule or law.

The CNA Registry is requiring me to take the entire course over again because of the 12 hour lack for certification. Requiring me to take the course for this reason is absolutely extreme and unreasonable. Considering I can go to any other state, fill out the application, get a certification and provide care, says a lot for my training and abilities.

I employ you to grant an Administrative Hearing based on the facts, rules, laws and regulations listed in this letter.

Sincerely,

I hope this helps with what I know and how far we have to go to get this letter out.

Thanks, Mona

Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

Everything I just wrote just disappeared.

 

Let's start again.

 

If under the rule for an appeal that you are looking at, all you have to do is REQUEST A HEARING, that is all you should do in your letter. Just do the minimum necessary. Do NOT argue your case at this point. Just request a hearing. You are just requesting a hearing.

 

What should happen next is that a hearing scheduler will contact you to set up the hearing calendar. The calendar will include your deadline for submitting your brief (your argument, that you started in the letter, and your exhibits), AND the date and location of the hearing. In many states, you can simply call the hearing scheduler and get this set up by phone, fax in your request, and follow it up by hard copy.

 

So tell me, do you have to do anything right now besides REQUEST a hearing? Do you have to say WHY you want the hearing right now?

 

I'll be here....

 

 

Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.
Did you have any more questions? If not, please "accept."
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
So my letter should be the first two sentences and that's it?
Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

If the rule you're following says only to "ask for a hearing."

 

If the rule you're following says "ask for a hearing and explain why you're asking" then the letter has to be more like what you first showed me - just somewhat better organized. (Keep in mind that I'm looking at in single space, and I know you didn't write the letter like that).

 

Let me know if I can be of further help.

 

My best,

 

Jane

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I replied to you yesterday, but I guess it didn't go thru. The rule states the appeal must be made in writing to the Director and must specify the reason. I know I have some pretty good reasons for a hearing. I'm just not sure if my answers are overkill or underdone.

So in that case, what should we do next?

Mona
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I replied to you yesterday, but I guess it didn't go thru. The rule states the appeal must be made in writing to the Director and must specify the reason. I know I have some pretty good reasons for a hearing. I'm just not sure if my answers are overkill or underdone.

So in that case, what should we do next?

Mona





Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

In that case, write out your letter as you were doing, but use short paragraphs and make it easy to read.

 

First list all the facts, chronologically. Then, list the pertinent rules, and explain why you think each one does or doesn't apply to your situation. You were well on the way; you just need to do some clean-up and make it a bit easier to read.

 

Sorry about the JustAnswer problem. I usually copy what I write before I hit "send" because sometimes if I don't, I lose what I write.

 

I will be available on and off on Thursday and Friday, 11/11 and 11/12 if you have any followup questions.

 

My best,

 

Jane

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Ok. I rearragned the letter to be more consistant with events. I have included it for you to go over. If there is anything else you can suggest, please feel free.

I am requesting an Administrative Hearing to appeal the CNA Registry’s decision to deny my

entrance onto the Registry. This appeal is based on 10-144 CMR Ch 128, section 6 6.3.1 – the denial of my CNA Registry Application.

After a conversation with Assistant Director XXXXX XXXXX, she offered to send me a copy of the current rules from which she has referred to in a previous conversation. I agreed and received them a few days later.

After reading them, I came across a rule which I felt qualified me to submit my application. I filled out the application, attached the required paperwork and wrote a letter stating the rule I had found. Please see the attached letter as Exhibit “A”.

On October 25, 2010, I received a letter dated October 18, 2010 stating I was denied based on not meet the criteria to be eligible to take the Bridge Examination. Please see the attached letter as Exhibit “B”.

Because I do not meet the requirements to get on to the Registry without a Bridge Examination, I should be allowed to take the Bridge Examination according to the rules stated below:

In conversations with the CNA Registry, it was stated that I could not make up the 12 hours by Continuing Education Units (CEU’s) or additional training or classes. As per Federal Regulation Title 42 Section 483.150 (b)(1)(ii), I could meet the requirements if I took CEU’s or “supervised nurse aid training.” I have offered to take a Phlebotomy course (which requires you be an LNA) in order to make up the hours I’m missing. I currently have 4 CEU’s offered by the State of New Hampshire. The fact that I willingly offered to take a twenty (20) hour plus course that would be considered beyond the CNA training spectrum, and was still denied is unreasonable. There are no rules, laws or regulations in Maine regarding this matter.

In a letter dated October 18, 2010, the Registry stated I could be granted a 4 month temporary listing while I take the Maine CNA course while working as a CNA in a nursing home only. According to the MSBON rule 02-380 CMR Ch 5, section 5 (B) – Temporary listing exception – A CNA who received training in another jurisdiction that does not meet the requirements for certification in Maine may request temporary listing on the Maine Registry, pending completion of the MSBON prescribed Bridge Examination. The temporary listing shall be in effect for a maximum of 4 months and shall not be renewed.” This rule comes after the listing of requirements and does not list any exceptions or disqualifications within the rule or after it. In no other portion of the Maine rules provided by the CNA Registry does it mention a 4 month Temporary Listing. It also states Bridge Examination not approved CNA course.

Also according to 10-144 CMR Ch 128, section 3 3.2.3.2 – Test for non-traditional CNAs, testing may be taken by qualified CNAs including but not limited to A CNA who received training in another jurisdiction that is at least equal to the Maine minimum of approved CNA training required by the rules. My interpretation of this rule is CNAs not meeting the minimum requirements can take the test based on the training they received if it covered all the Prescribed Curriculum for CNAs. I have completed an LNA training course in New Hampshire totaling 168 hours (12 hours short of the Maine minimum.) Since this course is the most comprehensive in New Hampshire and far out qualifies its participants than the Federal requirements, I fit into the “including but not limited to” portion of the rule according to the language of MSBON rule 02-380 CMR Ch 5, section 5 (B).

In conclusion, it is unacceptable that the Registry be allowed to grant portions of rules and laws and not the entire rule or law.


The CNA Registry is requiring me to take the entire course over again because of the 12 hour lack for certification. Requiring me to take the course for this reason is absolutely extreme and unreasonable. Considering I can go to any other state, fill out the application, get a certification and provide care.

I will double space the original once we are done. No the letter is not in Italics. Just wanted to let you know when it begins and ends.

Mona

Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

I can't give you legal advice, because we can't do that at JA and I'm only licensed in WA State.

 

That said, I don't like this paragraph:

 

"Requiring me to take the course for this reason is absolutely extreme and unreasonable. Considering I can go to any other state, fill out the application, get a certification and provide care."

 

I would change it to:

 

Requiring me to take the course for this reason is a hardship on me. I hope we can work together to work out a "win-win" resolution.

 

(Or something like that - no need to threaten or be "mean" to them - they don't care, anyway.)

 

It's always a good idea to propose a reasonable solution to a bureaucrat - something that will make their lives easier, not harder. You're just one of many, many people in the "in-box."

 

So, before you send, re-read again to make sure that the solution you propose is easy/understandable for them AND you. Remember that the state has a duty to protect the citizens, blah blah - see it from their side, in other words.

 

I hope that helps.

 

I'm writing back on my laptop - I think I killed the keyboard on my desktop - have been trying to fix it this morning.

 

I'll check back again in a couple of hours. You're my only customer right now!

 

My best,

 

Jane

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Ok. I agree. Sometimes it's better to appease them rather then anything else.

I changed the paragraph you suggested but tweeked it a bit.

The CNA Registry is requiring me to take the entire course over again because of the 12 hour lack for certification. Requiring me to take the course for this reason would be a hardship on me if I decide not to work in a nursing home. If I work in a nursing home, it’s funds the state of Maine would have to pay for me to attend training (which I already have).


If you work as a CNA in a nursing home, the state reimburses the home for your training according the Fed and state law. This can be quite a good chunk of change.

Thanks for all your help by the way. I'm glad I decided to ask instead of going ahead with what I had.

Mona
Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

You're welcome. Thanks for putting up with me and my current computer problem! Usually I answer immediately!

 

I'd say "lack of certification" not "for." Otherwise, I like that you explain that this will just cost Maine money. You may even want to point that out at the beginning of your paragraph, or even underline line - for emphasis. (Hey guys, I'm just trying to save you some money!).

 

If I've answered your question, could you please click on "accept" so that I get paid? Otherwise, I won't get anything! We can still write after you accept.

 

Cheers,

Jane

 

 

Jane Doe Deer, Attorney
Category: Legal
Satisfied Customers: 3864
Experience: Atty. 27+ years; Plain English answers to family law, employment, landlord-tenant, & other questions
Jane Doe Deer and 16 other Legal Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Thank you for all your help. I think law is only as intimidating as you let it be. I'm obviously not afraid to take on the system if I know (or think I know) I'm right. I've been thru Admin Hearings before, so I'm not nervous about the hearing. I just want to get the hearing in the first place.

Hopefully, I (we) have convinced them to allow me one.

I hope your computer issues work themselves out. I know I have plenty of days were I just want to chuck my laptop out the window. LOL.

Thanks again, Mona

Expert:  Jane Doe Deer replied 3 years ago.

You're very welcome, and thanks for accepting. I find a lot in the law is written poorly, making it too difficult for non-lawyers to understand.

 

My best,

 

Jane

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