How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Pete Your Own Question
Pete
Pete, Technician
Category: Kia
Satisfied Customers: 24721
Experience:  Over 17 years diagnosing and repairing various automobiles at a dealer and independently.
14928985
Type Your Kia Question Here...
Pete is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

I have a 2000 Sportage, 40,000 original miles, very good

This answer was rated:

I have a 2000 Sportage, 40,000 original miles, very good condition overall, was running great, dropped fuel tank to fix a leak, hooked it all back up, reconnected the battery now it will crank but no start. fuel pump not running, but fuel pump runs fine if I jump the relay, relay not pulling in. No spark, tried spraying test fuel into the intake, nothing, fuel gauge and tachometer do not move. have a second running sportage, changed the crank sensor, no change, camshaft sensor, no change, ECU, no change, checked all grounds, all good, locked and unlocked drivers door to reset security system, horn beeps both ways, no change. (no keyless entry on this vehicle), changed every relay on the vehicle (with the good ones from running vehicle, no change. checked all wiring and fuses, all good. been reading forums for a week now and cannot find a similar post (lots about crank and cam sensors). no check engine lights prior to fixing fuel leak, no codes stored now. Vehicle has an immobilizer system, checked and it is operating as expected. check engine light comes on when ignition is on and my code reader can connect to the ECU. What can cause the engine to crank as normal, but override the fuel pump relay, the voltage to the coils, and stop the tachometer, fuel gauge etc from responding? is there some way to Reboot the ECU or ???? every part I have changed out with the running sportage works just fine in that vehicle and I have installed the ones from the not running sportage so I know both sets of parts I have exchanged work. I have checked everything else, heater controls, turn signals, brake lights, radio, clock, wipers, horn, etc, etc everything works fine. Battery is fully charged, good grounds, everything clean and tight. 12.4 Volts everywhere I check, good grounds everywhere I check.
JA: Does the light stay on, or does it blink?
Customer: the check engine light stays on when ignition is on,
JA: What is the make/model of your car?
Customer: 2000 kia sportage
JA: Are you fixing your Sportage yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: I am fixing myself. here is what I have done so far. I have a 2000 Sportage, 40,000 original miles, very good condition overall, was running great, dropped fuel tank to fix a leak, hooked it all back up, reconnected the battery now it will crank but no start. fuel pump not running, but fuel pump runs fine if I jump the relay, relay not pulling in. No spark, tried spraying test fuel into the intake, nothing, fuel gauge and tachometer do not move. have a second running sportage, changed the crank sensor, no change, camshaft sensor, no change, ECU, no change, checked all grounds, all good, locked and unlocked drivers door to reset security system, horn beeps both ways, no change. (no keyless entry on this vehicle), changed every relay on the vehicle (with the good ones from running vehicle, no change. checked all wiring and fuses, all good. been reading forums for a week now and cannot find a similar post (lots about crank and cam sensors). no check engine lights prior to fixing fuel leak, no codes stored now. Vehicle has an immobilizer system, checked and it is operating as expected. check engine light comes on when ignition is on and my code reader can connect to the ECU. What can cause the engine to crank as normal, but override the fuel pump relay, the voltage to the coils, and stop the tachometer, fuel gauge etc from responding? is there some way to Reboot the ECU or ???? every part I have changed out with the running sportage works just fine in that vehicle and I have installed the ones from the not running sportage so I know both sets of parts I have exchanged work. I have checked everything else, heater controls, turn signals, brake lights, radio, clock, wipers, horn, etc, etc everything works fine. Battery is fully charged, good grounds, everything clean and tight. 12.4 Volts everywhere I check, good grounds everywhere I check.
JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?
Customer: nothing I can think of.

My name is ***** ***** I am a professional here at Just Answer. I noticed that your question had not received a response and thought I would see if you still need help with this.I apologize for the delay and I hope I can still assist you with this here.

I have seen issues with sudden electronic ignition switch failures that can cause this type of fault here in the past needing replaced.If you have not had the ignition switch tested to see if one or more contacts are not sending the proper signal as it should,this needs done to see if the electronic ignition switch needs replaced to resolve this here.If this was already tested and found o.k. or was replaced let me know.

If more help is needed, use the reply tab to continue our conversation. If no further assistance is needed, kindly rate my service,your 5 star rating is appreciated.You can rate at any time and we can continue to work on your question as this will not close out your question.Keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair your vehicle without seeing it and I work on delivering the best possible answer from what I see to work with.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am already in the process of switching out every single component in the vehicle from the running one. I was hoping to save myself some time by being able to track down and test the circuit that would cause this fault. I have never seen a single wire, single relay, single sensor that would shut down the fuel relay, shut down the ignition (spark) and shut down the gauges (fuel gauge and tach do not move while cranking), but still allow you to crank it over like normal and no other symptoms (no codes, no flashing check engine light, still be able to connect to the ECU, etc. If I have to, I will replace the entire steering column to rule that out, then replace the entire wiring harness to rule that out. Was hoping for an easier option!! Is there some way to test the ignition...... is there a wire from the steering column/ignition switch that if it does not get power it would cause these symptoms? Thanks, Kevin

Below is a chart for the ignition switch wiring.You can test the input and output from the switch to see if the switch needs replaced.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4l5dv4cc1wd8mgo/i-11-07.gif?dl=0

Let me know if you need anything else and feel free to rate my help here as this is how I receive credit for my time.Your 5 star rating is appreciated

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Hi Pete,
looking at this diagram, all of these circuits would have to be functional as I have power to the wipers, heater fan, radio, start circuit and the ECM powers up. it is my understanding that if the ECM did not power up, I would not get a check engine light on the dash and my code reader would not be able to link up and communicate (can you confirm that?). I will double check that I am getting power to the ECM on the green and White red wires to be certain, and get back to you later. Thanks. Kevin

You are correct,if the ecm was completely dead then no check engine light and no communication would occur.But if only part of the ecm has an internal electrical fault then communication would occur and you would see the check engine light but the ecm can still be faulty with part of the electronics in it.I have seen it both ways before.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Hi Pete,
do you have a pin identifier for those two wires for the ECM that should have power with the key on/start? too many wires stuffed in there to be able to follow them
Thanks
Kevin

I show pin 26 which is a green wire should have power at all times key on or off.Pin 54 with key on should have power black and white wire.Pins 6,28,34 and 55 should have ground at all times key on or off.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
do you have a picture of the pin numbers?
thanks
Kevin

Here is what I show for the connector on this here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mt4sbwpcpqljr9g/c-11-07.gif?dl=0

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Hi Pete,
I am showing everything as you listed except for pin 54, it is key off and key on and start - ground.
the only thing that controls that wire is the ignition switch??Thanks
Kevin

This can be due to a fault with the EGI Main relay not operating causing this power loss on 54 or a fault with the FUEL INJ fuse .These are both located in the engine fuse panel assembly.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Hi Pete,
double checked all fuses, all good. Two relays under the hood by the battery, (removed the black covers so I can see what they are doing), the main relay pulls in and has power, the fuel pump relay does not pull in, but if I manually pull it in, then 54 switches over to 12 v positive, key on or key off. the fuel pump also runs when I manually pull in the relay. so back to the original problem, with this relay pulled in manually, fuel pump runs, ECU has power on pin 54, and the unit still wont start - no spark, no response on the tack or the other gauges. what would cause the power to the spark plug coils, the power to the gauges and the power to the fuel pump relay to all kick out simultaneously with all fuses good, both relays good? every other car I have worked on, when you put the key to the "on" position, this pulls in the main relay and pulls in the fuel pump relay (some are on a timer, the fuel pump will run for 5 seconds, or until a specific pressure is reached in the manifold), when I put the key to the on position the fuel pump relay does not pull in. when I crank the engine over, the gauges do not move and there is no spark. What wire to which pin on the fuel pump relay should the ignition be supplying power to? in the on position or in the crank position? Thanks for all the help! Kevin
Customer: replied 30 days ago.
Hi Pete,
I work on industrial PLC's more than I do ECU on cars, is there such a thing as ladder logic for a ECU, a statement of instructions as to what is supposed to happen in what order?
Thanks
Kevin

At the fuel pump relay do you have a ground signal at the red wire?

Customer: replied 29 days ago.
Hi Pete,
sorry if I did not understand that question clearly. we had the ECU out to test the pins. I was not sure if you wanted me to test this with the ECU in or out, with the key on or off or start, and with the relay in or out. I tested with the ECU in, the relay out and the key in all three positions. I had my meter positive lead directly to the positive post on the battery and the negative lead stuck in the red wire connector. Key off I got 4.2 volts, key on I got 5.1 volts and key start 11.3 volts. Just to double check - (I don't have a diagram), the fuel pump relay is the one closest to the engine?
Thanks
Kevin
Customer: replied 28 days ago.
Checked the diagrams and I have the correct relay for the fuel pump. Again, the fuel pump runs fine when I manually activate the relay. Did the results of the question you had about the red wire being grounded for the fuel pump relay give you any direction? looking at these diagrams, I still cannot find any wire/connector/signal that would cause the fuel pump relay, the power to the spark plug coils and the gauges on the dash to all kick out? Thanks, Kevin

Since you had 11.3 volts at the red wire at the fuel pump relay install the relay and let me know if it clicks when cranking over the engine?Do this with the ECU plugged in as well.

Customer: replied 28 days ago.
Hi Pete, OK, plugged the ECU back in, plugged the relay back in (checked it again, black cover is off so I can see the coil and contacts, applied voltage to the coil and it pulled in, checked the contacts and they are good), had someone turn over the car and had 12 volts at the coil, used a stethoscope and the fuel pump is running now. (no idea how, nothing has changed...... tried again to start it, no spark and no movement on the gauges still. well, at least the fuel pump is running...... the only thing that was really moved is the relay/fuse block under the hook, I unbolted it and flipped it over to see the red wire under the relay,,,,,, maybe a loose wire? what do we need to check now to get the gauges and power to the spark plug coils? Thanks Kevin

Inspect the wiring and terminals under the fuse panel and leading to the fuse panel for any issues.If any issues are found they will need repaired to resolve this fault here.I suspect this may be loose,damaged or corroded wiring or terminals leading to or at the fuse panel itself.

Customer: replied 27 days ago.
Hi Pete. Checked both the fuse panel under the hood and the one under the dash, both look like new, nothing corroded or loose. I even had someone wiggling them while trying to start the car, still no spark, no movement on tach or fuel gauge. What can I check for the gauges like we did with the fuel relay? Thanks, Kevin.

I apologize for the delay.

This is a tough one for me to diagnose myself from here but others here may have more info on what to check or do for this issue.

I will open your question up for others here to see if someone else can assist further on this as there may be others here that may have more info on what to check or do with this issue.I hope you can get this resolved with ease.No need to reply to my last post here unless it is a last resort as it will keep your question locked to me and others will not be able to view it.If you feel you want to continue to work with me on this feel free to reply at any time but keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair this without seeing your vehicle.

Thanks Pete

Pete and other Kia Specialists are ready to help you

Related Kia Questions