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Andrew Martin
Andrew Martin,
Category: Kia
Satisfied Customers: 207
Experience:  Technician at Wile Hyundai
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08 Kia Rondo 2.7 L (same car from Friday) Installed new

Customer Question

08 Kia Rondo 2.7 L (same car from Friday)
Installed new timing belt this weekend. turned over couple times to verify alignment, OK... Put back together, crank no start... pulled the intake, removed all plugs and added TSP oil to each cylinder,checked compression, all LOW.....
In this mess I decided I would dump the oil and change it... Guess what... SLUDGE, BAD... Drained and pour a couple quarts of Diesel through to rinse out the pan anyway.. refilled with new oil and filter before the compression check above.. Question: Does this thing have the Variable Valve Timing system ? If so, Think its STUCK ?
Submitted: 6 months ago.
Category: Kia
Expert:  K. Wiggins replied 6 months ago.
It does have the vvt system, you can pull the oil control valves and check the screens. You might also want to do a cylinder leak down test to see if a valve is bent. I know how it feels to have these roll through the shop.
Expert:  K. Wiggins replied 6 months ago.
Sorry heres the OCV info
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Leak down test was good, real good in fact... 10-20%
Compression is up to average 175 New oil helped
Still run rough and stalled when started.
I'll pull the OCV's and clean the screens...
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Pulled Bank 1 sensor out as far as it would go and sprayed screen with carb cleaner. Bank 2 I pulled all the way out and cleaned.
Pegysis Computer, the cams are moving at the same deg's. 4 degs at key on, advancing to 22 degs when cranking or attempting to start. Engine will bounce around about two seconds and die.
Fuel pressure is 50 psi and holds steady, acts like its not getting steady fuel.... can smell fuel in the plenum..
Could this be the TPS unit ????? Pegysis shows it moving and working when accelerator is pushed.
Could it be the ECM module ????? how can I check this unit ?Any suggestions on where to go next ?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Have no codes now.
Expert:  K. Wiggins replied 6 months ago.
Glad to hear compression is fine now and leakdown was good. I'm at a loss at the moment. I'm going to open this up to other experts while I look over some things. Someone should be with you shortly
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Update; Found spark plug coils to be intermediately firing, By that I mean.... I pulled coil off #2, Test bad while cranking engine, #4 Good, #6 bad (I had moved the coils from cylinder 1 & 5 to 2 & 6 when I originally changed the plugs, under intake)
Replaced coils on 2 & 6 with new ones.... still acts the same when cranking engine... Removed intake and checked coils 1,3,5 none of them working... pulled new coils and plugged them into 1 &5 Weak spark then no spark, checked my ground system. OK
Put coils back in 2 & 6 and they quit having spark, then spark would return...
I've pulled the crank sensor and ordered a new one. Will take a day or two to get here. (coming from KC)
My thought is Crank sensor or PCM is bad... is my thought process in the right direction ?
How often do you replace coil packs on this model ? Don't understand why I would not get any misfire codes when trying to start engine.. especially after cranking as many times as I've been..
Time to go for a ride on the motorcycle and cool the Brain.... :)
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Hello, was the vehicle doing any of this before the timing belt replacement?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
They stated that it had been running bad, missing, jerking a few days... Car stopped and was towed to me.. would start, jerk and missing but died when you touched the accelerator.
Codes in system when arrived P0441,P0300,P0301,P0305
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Could be crank sensor but sounds more like a cam sensor. Crank sensor usually is a crank no start. Don't see coils go bad on those too often, usually only on the 4 cylinders. I'd check for codes again also.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
No more codes have come up, I'll order the cam sensors and have them on hand to try.
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Alright, if you run it any more keep checking for codes, if its running rough like that still it will throw something. Let me know.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I'm open to any suggestions on how to get the Bank One Cam Sensor out....
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Cam Sensors are changed, Even tried replacing the crank sensor, no change... every third time you crank on the engine it will fire about 2 seconds...
I did find 2 or the 15amp fuses blown going to SNSR1 & SNSR2Test fired each coil pack, there ok..
Tried spraying starter fluid in the plenum, no luck, (doesn't effect its pattern of trying to start at all)
I'm Lost........ need to find out what the fuses go to and think on this some more..
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Ok, sensor 1 fuse controls the immobilizer, camshaft position sensor, mass air flow sensor, oil control valve. sensor 2 fuse controls the fuel pump relay, and the oxygen sensors. Try swapping the a/c relay with the fuel pump relay and see if it starts.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Swapped the fuel pump relay with the RAD Fan Hi relay (same size) still no change.
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Ok, only other thing I can think of is that it is not on time.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Checked timing belt after a whole lot of cranking... Still right on the marks...
What fires the coil packs ? PCM ?
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Yes the PCM controls the coils. There is a IGN COIL 20A fuse to check also.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Already check the fuse, I'm wondering if the PCM is firing the coils, or all the coils.
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Possible but rarely see pcms have issues. Check spark on all of the coils, if they're firing then that probably isn't the issue. I'm surprised it's running rough and hasn't even thrown a pending code
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
That's what I don't get, I figured it would have some type of code..
Won't have much time today for working on it.
I'm going to recheck everything again and see if the cams maybe stuck (VVT system) again. (compression check)
Another concern is the volts going to the coil packs, is it enough...
Using Pegisys, I can fire each coil pack, the spark is not that impressive with a spark plug grounded on the end of the coil pack. I'm going to try this old school, arcing to a ground light or something. Want to see if the spark is good.
Will hook a node light on the injector and look at that also.
I keep thinking it's in the firing of the coils, Timing late, not consistent, low volts, etc.. PCM Bad ??? (but have no codes)
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
I mean either the coils are firing or they aren't, unless they are all bad which is very unlikely. And I don't think I've ever seen a bad PCM on any Kia honestly. It could be a stuck VVT but i feel like that would throw a cam code. Do you have a borescope? Thinking maybe the valves are carboned up or something since you mentioned the sludge earlier.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Think I still have one, Better go find it and get it on the charger..
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Pulled spark plugs and inserted scope, No real build up on pistons and valves. Checked compression again, 165-175-165 on #2-4-6 cylinders.
Pulled the fuel rail and injectors, inserted camera in injector ports. Back side of valves are clean. tested each injector with ohm meter, OK... test fired each injector by hand, OK... plugged fuel rail in and cranked motor, all injectors are firing...
Check spark on coils #1-3-5, they have spark...
Tried to send you a video file, Wont except MOV. file format... oh well..Long shot; This car does have some front end damage. Is there a shut down switch on the frame / Body anywhere that could be activated ?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Inertia Switch ?? (fuel pump stays in the "on" when its trying to run though)
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
There is no inertia switch unfortunately. If you have spark, and you have fuel, and you have good compression the only thing left is timing. So its either that the VVT is stuck or the timing is off on the belt side.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Pics of where the Gears & belt set with the timing marks.
#1 Piston is TDC on a compression stroke.
Expert:  Andrew Martin replied 6 months ago.
Ok must be the VVT then. If it is its gonna throw a code at some point