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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Jeep
Satisfied Customers: 22534
Experience:  Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep Master Certified, ASE Master and Advanced Certified, Trans and Hybrid Specialist
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95 JEEP WRANGLER 2.5 THAT HAS NO SPARK, I HAVE THE NORMAL

Customer Question

95 JEEP WRANGLER 2.5 THAT HAS NO SPARK, I HAVE THE NORMAL 12, 33, 55 CODE, THE JEEP HAS NO AC. I HAVE REPLACE THE CPS, CAMSHAFT SENSOR, COIL, PULGS, WIRES, DIST. CAP,L 02 SENSOR, FUEL PUMP, ECU, ALL THE REALYS,AND STILL GET NO SPARK. WHEN I TURN THE KEY ON I HEAR THE FUEL PUMP COME ON FOR THE FEW SECONDS AND TURN OFF,AND I ALSO HEAR THE REALAYS CLICK . I HAVE POWER GOING TO THE COIL BUT NO SPARK. I HAVE CHECKED THE FUEL UP ON THE VALVE BY ON FUEL RAIL AND IT HAVE FUEL UP TO THERE. I HAVE ALSO REPLACED THE KEY MOD AT THE BOTTOMO OF THE STEERING COLIUM. I AM ALL OUT OF IDEAS I HAVE PIN THE WIRE AND CHECKED ALL THE GROUNDS AND EVEN ADD A FEW GROUNDS, AND STILL NOTHING. ABOUT READY TO HANG UP TO TOWEL ON THIS THING.
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Jeep
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist with this today.In some cases I may need more info to assist better.I apologize for any delay.

Have you checked to see if the rotor is turning when you crank over the engine at all?

Let me know so we can continue,thanks Pete.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
SIR I HAVE AND IT IS TURNING
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Was the rotor replaced?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
sir that was replaced along with the cap
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

On the opposite wire at the coil when cranking over the engine do you have any kind of ground signal even an off/on ground signal at all?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
on the green and red wire??? I do and when checking the back of the alt where the green and orange wire go to
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Do you have one orange wire and one gray wire at the coil connection?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
no at the coil I have a grey and blue and green wire, and at the dist I have an orange and I cant recall the other to that go to the magnetic pick up.
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Just to be sure this is a 1995 Wrangler with the 2.5 liter engine am I correct?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
sir, that is correct
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

That is odd as my diagram shows one wire should be orange and should carry the 12 volts dc and one is gray and should have a ground pulse signal.Do you have a ground pulse signal on the opposite wire that does not have the 12 volts on it?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
the grey wire has the 12 volts and the green and orange wire has the ground
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

O.k.,run and connect a ground jumper wire to the housing of the coil,any metal surface of the coil and see if you then have spark and let me know.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok sir ill give it a try. Starting to think this thing need to be takin out back and put down. lol
\
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

It looks like the coil needs an external ground and if the engine block ground is corroded or damaged this may cause this issue.Let me know if you receive spark.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok just gave that a try and still nothing
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Do you have spark coming out of the coil at all?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
No sir nothing and it looks like I may have lost the pulsing on the green and orange wire
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Have you checked wiring and electrical connections at the computer and leading to it for any issues?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
sir I have checked the white and black wire on pin 11 I think and the black wire on pin 12
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

What about the green and orange wire,is it o.k. at the computer and leading to the computer?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
it has continuity from the alt and dist
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

This wire should run from the ignition coil to the computer,is this how it runs on your model?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
The grey one with the 12 volts or the green and orange one
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

The green and orange wire.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
sir it dose
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It runs up past the alt and injectors and come in to the computer
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

O.k.,with the loss of ground pulse on this wire at the coil did you lose the ground pulse at the computer as well on the other end of this wire at the computer?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It pulses from 1. 3 to 2 at both the computer and the coil
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

O.k.,this is a tough one for me to diagnose myself here.

I will open your question up for others here to see if someone else can assist further on this as there may be others here that may have more info on what to check or do with this issue.I hope you can get this resolved with ease.No need to reply to my last post here unless it is a last resort as it will keep your question locked to me and others will not be able to view it.If you feel you want to continue to work with me on this feel free to reply at any time but keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair this without seeing your vehicle.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok sir any help is appreciated
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I am still waiting on some help
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!

You may have a handful of things going on and it's going to take some testing to determine the cause. It looks like some test results thus far are not valid. With everything that has been replaced that may complicate the issue due to replacement part quality.

How did the problem start?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I drove to work and come home and had a fire call and got it to crank but wouldn't start
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Does the engine seem to crank at a normal speed?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
it dose I just don't have any spark.fuel pump kicks on and everything seems as it should
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Where are you checking for spark?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I am checking right after the ignition coil
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

At the coil output terminal?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
sir
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.
Do you have an incandescent test light?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
spark light
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Unplug one fuel injector and find the dark green/orange wire.

Connect the alligator clip of the test light to battery negative.

Probe the terminal for the dark green/orange wire.

Turn the key on. Does the test light come on for one second?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
it dose
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Now locate the same wire at the coil and do the same test.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
the green and orange wire has the pulsing as it dose on the injector, the grey wire has the 12 volts
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

There should be no pulsing on this wire nor should there be 12v on the coil driver wire; we shouldn't be testing with something that is capable of showing voltage at this point because I described using an incandescent test light. Using the exact procedure I described and using an incandescent test light please describe exactly what you see when the key is turned on.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok so when I put my test light on the green and orange wire the light comes on for a few second
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Great.

What does it do when you crank the starter?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I get no light
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

That means the cam or crank signals aren't present or they aren't in sync.

Does the rotor turn when cranking the engine?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It is spinning when it is turning over
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Where did the replacement cam and crank sensors come from?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I have replaced them both 2 times, once from Arnold's motor supply and once from orileys
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Do you have the original sensors? If you do they need to go back in.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Yep and they are the ones in it now
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

How did you set the crank sensor air gap?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
030 shim paper
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Do you have a labscope?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Nope
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

A scan tool should really be used to look at the cam and crank signals to see if they are present. If the ASD relay turns on at key on but not when cranking then either one of the signals is missing or they are not in sync. A scan tool could be used to see which sensor isn't present or if they're both present and out of sync. Cam timing problems are rare on this engine but possible.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Even with the obd1 didn't think you could get much with a scan tool
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

There is a very large amount of data possible including crank RPM, cam sensor counts and cam/crank sync which all need to be looked at to accurately diagnose it.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
what you are saying is I am sol
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.
Im not sure why that would be.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Because I have been looking around to get the obd1 scanner and not having any luck
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

As with any problem the choice would be to diagnose it properly or try things in hopes that will repair it. You can try replacing the cam and crank sensors with Mopar parts or remove the timing cover and check cam timing, but either way you're going to be spending money and time.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I can't find anyone around here who has a obd1 scanner that has an option to see live data
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Any shop or dealer would have the proper equipment to do so. It's up to you how to proceed, if you want to try replacing parts in hopes that will fix it then I would recommend a Mopar crank sensor and then a cam sensor.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok so the guy said that the sensor aren't in sync / timed right. So with that being said what steps do I need to take now
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

If the distributor is in correctly then the signals being out of sync would be due to improper cam timing.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
He also said it could be something today with the valet start system
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

An aftermarket security system isn't going to cause the cam and crank signals to be out of sync.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
how would it have jumped timing by just parking it over night
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

It would have jumped when attempting to start the engine.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
He just said that the system has been known to not let the coil to have spark and dose some really crazy things to disable the jeep
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

That doesn't make any technical sense.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I know that's what I said to him and I even asked him to show me where it would be located, he told me that he would have to start charging diagnostic fee if he did touch anything by sides hooking his scanner up to it
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I guess I am back to ground 0 again
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

If there is a cam timing issue then the timing cover needs to come off.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok I'll do that, What do I need to look for
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

You need to see if the timing chain has jumped, stretched or is broken and the timing marks no longer line up.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It didn't jump timing so now what should I check
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

If the cam and crank signals were not in sync then either cam timing is incorrect or the distributor isn't installed correctly.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
How do I check them
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Check what?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I only replaced the cap so I wouldn't think that would be the problem
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I have changed the crankshaft and cam shaft sensor again and still no spark
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Is the black and blue wire a ground? If so can I splice in another ground go make sure it is making a good ground. Also could it be due to one of the in line fuses?? I have checked all the wire for continuity and they all have tested good
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

If the signals are not in sync it is either cam timing, the distributor isn't in the correct position, possibly a mechanical failure of the distributor, or if you're still putting aftermarket cam and crank sensors in it that could be the cause. Aftermarket cam and crank sensors will not work in a Chrysler product.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
They are mopar
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

They won't be the issue then.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
what's my next step
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

You need to determine why the signals are out of sync.

The only other possible cause for the signals being out of sync would be a broken flexplate but I wouldn't expect the 2.5 to have the power to do so.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
what should I do to try and figure that out
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

You would need to remove the transmission and remove the flexplate if you wanted to inspect it.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Yea that's not going to happen. That don't seem possiable from just parking it over night.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

The fact that the problem happened on startup or from sitting doesn't alter possible causes. If the cam and crank signals are not in sync then the flexplate is broken, cam timing is incorrect, or the distributor is not in the correct position.