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George H.
George H., Hyundai Technician
Category: Hyundai
Satisfied Customers: 18592
Experience:  Hyundai Gold certified, ASE Master tech 15+ years
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Hyundai Sonata: 2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L. Low beam headlights

Customer Question

2006 Hyundai Sonata 3.3L. Low beam headlights went out at the same time. I checked bulbs, fuses, relay. All good. I've isolated the problem: there is no voltage at pins 87 and 30. Turning the low beam switch on gives me voltage at pins 85 and 86 to throw the relay, but there is no power to flow through the relay once it is triggered. What might be the problem.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Hyundai
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
Hello I will help you with your question,
Do you have 12 volts at both testpoints on the back of the HDLP LO fuse?
If you have that do you have 12 volts at the relay? I know what you typed above, I would like to hear it again.
Thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Do you mean do is there power at the HDLP LO fuse? I.e., pull the fuse and test the power at the fuse socket? (If, I won't be able to check until this evening)I've checked the fuse. It is good. I've checked the relay. It is working (about 70 ohms resistance at pins 85 and 86. When 12v is applied, I can hear the relay click and I get continuity between pins 30 and 87). I've also checked to see that when the lights are switched on at the steering column switch, I get 12v at the pin sockets for 85 and 86. So the light switch is telling the relay to turn the lo beams on. The problem is there is not 12v at the pin sockets for 30 and 87. I need to figure out why and how to fix that.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
BTW, the high beams work fine.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
No, I want you to use the testpoints on the back of each fuse. If you have 12 volts at one of the testpoints you should have it at the other one \as well. No need to pull the fuse. If the relay is working then it is not as you are measureing. Look at the pin numbering on the relay and I think you will see that you have 12 volts at one of the 30,87 pair and at ONE of the 85,86 pair. Not at both of the pair. If you use a large paperclip to connect the 87 to the 30 pin socket do the low beams come on? Do you have power to the connector on the red wires? Let me know what happens Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
(BTW, all of this i've done with the ignition turned on)Pins 85 and 86 have no power with the lights switched off, and 12v with the lights switched on. So I assume the switching control circuit is good.Pins 30 and 87 have no power. At any time. With or without the engine on. With the engine on, I connected pin 87 and pin 30 with a large copper wire. The lights did not come on.When you ask "Do you have power to the connector on the red wires?" what red wires are you referring to?Thanks.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
To clarify, neither pin 30 nor pin 87 had 12v.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
The measurements you are posting make no sense. 85 and 86 are two ends of the same wire. If you are measuring 12 volts at both testpoints of the fuse yet you only have power to one pin socket for the relay? You need to recheck your pins to be sure of what you are measuring against the numbers on the relay body. Once you have power to 87 or 30 at the pin socket connect that pin socket to the corresponding socket (30 or 87) and see if you now have 12 volts at the red wire on either of the headlamp connectors. Let me know what you find Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'm probably not using the right terminology. (I have electrical experience, but not much auto experience) Most of the time when I'm saying pins I should be saying the sockets that the pins go into on the fuse box under the hoodIf I pull my hi-beam relay and put my test probes on the sockets for pins 30 and 87, I get 12v (as I should, since the leads are hot and ready to send voltage to the high beams as soon the relay is switched on.)If I pull my lo-beam relay and put my test probes on the sockets for pins 30 and 87, I get nothing. The leads are not hot.I understand that 85 and 86 are 2 ends of the same wire. But when I put my test probes on the sockets for pins 85 and 86 I get nothing when the low beams are switched off, and 12v when the low beams are switched on. (I was just trying to make sure that when I switched the low beams on from the switch on the steering column, it was actually sending the 12v the relay needed to turn the low beams on)Sorry to be so difficult. Thanks for your patience.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
You should not have power to 87 AND 30 with the relay out.
30 is connected to the red wire that runs to the headlamp connectors and 87 is connected to hot at all times 12 volts through the low beam fuse.
Please let me run this, I have been doing it every day for 30 years.
Double check your pin numbers you must have 12 volts at two of the sockets they will NOT be 87 AND 30 OR 85 AND 86. It will be one of the pair.
No other way this works.
See where your measurement or pin identification is at fault so we can continue and get your lights working.
You are only concerned with getting 12 volts to the 87 or 30 at this time. Check the fuse then check the low relay sockets.
Let me know what you find
Thanks
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26725849/relay.pdf
\
Copy and paste that link into a new browser tab, you are only concerned with getting 12 volts at the #1 pin and connecting that pin socket to the #4 pin with a paperclip to see if the low beams come on or have power to the red wire at the headlamp connector.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have already tried that with a wire (to jump the 87 and 80 pin sockets) and the low beams did not come on.Just to clarify, I am not getting a 12 volt reading at either the 87 or the 30 pin socket for the low beam relay(What I was doing before with the high beam circuit after I pulled the high beam relay was this: I put the black probe on the 87 pin socket and the red probe on the 30 pin socket, and the voltmeter read 12v. If you were assuming I was grounding the black probe and then putting then red probe on the 30 pin socket and then the 87 pin socket, then I understand that I would get a 12v reading on only one of the pin sockets. Sorry for the confusion)
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
You need to test before you jumper. If you get nothing at the relay go back to the fuse. Do you have 12 volts at both testpoints on the lo beam fuse? All measurements are taken with the black lead of the meter on the negative post of the battery OR to a clean metal part of the engine or the body. Let me know what you have, you are only makeing two measurements here. One at the testpoints on the fuse. IF you have 12 volts at both testpoints of the lo beam fuse THEN you move to the relay pin sockets. You will have 12 volts at EITHER #1 or #4 (as shown in the diagram I posted above) and THEN you connect them together with a paperclip and check the paperclip for 12 volts. IF the paperclip has 12 volts THEN you move to the bulb socket and see if you have 12 volts there. Let me know what you find Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I will test this evening and get back with you in the morning. Will that work?
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
That is fine, let me know the results
Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Fuse - I have 12 volts at both testpoints on the lo beam fuseRelay - I have 12 volts at pin socket #4.When I connected pin sockets #1 and #4 with a paperclip, the lights did NOT come on.You said to check the paperclip for 12 volts (I assume you meant to connect the red probe from the voltmeter to the paper clip). The paperclip had 12 volts (which is should, since it was connected to pin socket #4, right?)I checked at the bulb socket and I did not have 12 volts.Thanks again.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
OK, so you know you have 12 volts to the red wire at the relay box, you now need to see if the 12 volts makes it out of the box to the red wire to the bulb socket. If it does then you have a break between those two points. The same red wire feeds both sides from a splice so it could be the splice or a simple break in the wire. Any signs of rodent activity under the hood?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Where does the red wire that feeds the lights come out of the box? (do you have a wiring diagram. that might help me track down the break, if that's what it is. I have a schematic, but that doesn't show the physical location of the wiring)No signs of rodent activity under the hood. but that is still a possibility.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
Pin 15 of JE01 and pin 47 of JE02
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26725849/de.pdf
Copy and paste that link into a new browser tab and let me know how I can help
Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Fantastic. Thanks. I will check this evening.I assume I will have to lift up the junction box to access the pins to test them, correct?
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
Yes, you are going to have to get to the bottom of the fuse block to check the wires. I slip a straightpin along the wire to make contact inside the connector and then I can clip a jumper wire to make the measurement from. Let me know how i can help Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
You've been a big help. Thanks for your patience. I will report back tomorrow.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
We work at your pace and I am almost always here so let me know what you find so I can help Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Nothing to report since I was able to get the fuse block off last night but was interrupted before I could test anything.Based on the circuit diagram you provided, could you confirm something for me?It looks like pin 15 of JE01 connects to a red wire that feeds the left head lamp.
And pin 47 of JE02 connects to a red wire that feeds the right head lamp.
So the power switched on at the relay is split somewhere in the fuse block and there are separate wires that go to the head lamps.
BUT (and here is my confusion) it looks look the ground side of the 2 lamps are spliced back together and THEN grounded at one point. (G20). It seems strange that they just don't ground the lamps immediately, like they do for the hi beam lamps.So am I reading this right? Do they go bring the ground side of the lo lamps back together before grounded to circuit?Thanks.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
You are reading that correctly, the high beams are grounded individually and the lows share a ground. Concentrate on getting power to the red wire, this is not a ground problem. It could be internal the fuse block, that is why you are checking to see if the power makes it out of the box on at least one wire. Let me know how I can help Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
At the earliest opportunity I will trace the 12v as far as it goes and let you know the results.
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.
Ok, let me know how I can help
Thanks