Hi I have a 2003 Hyundai Tiburon, manual 2.0L. Today sitting at a light it just died, not fuel nada, The only thing it would do it crank over and over again. I noticed upon looking at everything throughly that the SNRS fuse blew. I put a new one in the car would start for a few second then die again. I uplugged the 02 sensors, replaced the crankshaft sensor. Then I noticed that the fuel pump sounded as if it was running constantly, I am unsure as to wheather or not these pumps on this car should run constant or not, in my experience when I turn the key on it primes then shuts off and the noise goes away. So now I replaced the fuel pump and put it all back together and the same thing happened. Still have power to it. This time afterwards I decided to disconnect the battery and let it sit for alittle while for about an hour actually, upon connecting the terminals now I have no power at all to the fuel pump. I have also replaced the 12V 20 block fuse under the hood. I have tested that power appears to be coming out of it. Now I am lost. The other thing I was wondering is could the car have some sort of security fuel cut off switch that I am unable to locate as an anti thief device. I appreciate whatever positive direction you can help me with, oh and the car only has 47000 miles on it. Kurt.
Country: United StatesMake: HyundaiModel: tiburonYear: 2003Engine: 2.0L
I wrote a long note about what I've done already.
Hello and Welcome to Just Answer. My name is XXXXX XXXXX X will try my best to assist you and your 100% satisfaction is my goal. I have been working on these vehicles for over 10 years so I am very familiar with this system and how they work. However, keep in mind, that I need some solid concrete facts/evidence/clues from you in order to give you a good answer about your vehicle. Please realize that all my answers are based solely on the info that you provide me with.Does the check engine light come on with the key on? Are there any codes in the computer?Are there any anti theft or security lights on or flashing on the dash with the key on?Does the engine have spark when cranking it over? If so, does it run on starting fluid?
I have a vechile speed sensor code that came on that I cleared out cause the wire got cut from a pot hole i ran over. I do not see any sort of anti theft light on the dash board or flashing on the dash with the key on. I did have it running then it kept blowing the fuse. It will run like crap for a second on starting fluid, it will hick up and burp if you will. I dont have an after market securtiy system on the car at all. The orignal remote lock and unlock fob works only when it wants to so I dont use it at all. I did try it today and noticed that the key pad red light flassed non stop then as I turned the key to the on position my directions flashed. When the key pad stopped working so did the flashing lights. The care has ran perfectly for months unitl this today.
So is this SNRS fuse still blowing? Are you saying there is a red light flashing on the dash with the key on? Does the fuel pump still run non stop or does it not run at all any more? Have you checked fuel pressure or injector pulse?
No there is no light flashing on my dash at all, and as of right now the 20A fuse is not blowing since the fuel pump is not turning on right now. I have not checked the fuel pressure or the injector pulse nor do I know how to. Doesn't the fuel pump need to be on in order to check that?
Thats a good question but no. Even if the fuel pump is not running for what ever reason, the computer will still pulse the injectors when the engine is being cranked over.Fuel injector pulse is the signal from the computer to the injectors. You would use a tool called a noid light. It simply plugs into the injector connector after it is disconnected from the fuel injector and should blink when the engine is cranked over. It looks like this.If there is injector pulse but the fuel pump is not coming on, then we need to check to be sure that the fuel pump relay has power on two wires going into it and that the computer is grounding the fuel pump relay when cranking over. The fuel pump relay gets grounded on the yellow orange wire (according to my wiring diagram)
So I should buy a noid light first then to check the injectors. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by checking the relay. Are you referring to the fuse box under the hood or the wires going into the fuel pump itself? Also is the fuel pump suppose to stay on constantly when it does finally get power again. Please explain what I need to do in lay mans terms so I can try this all tomorrow when there is light to do so.
Hello!No problem! Thanks for asking.. so we can get this cleared up. I will be more than happy to explain what to do as well as answer your questions.1). Right now we don't know if we are missing injector pulse or fuel pressure. Regardless you are going to need to start somewhere. You could start by getting a noid light specific to your vehicle and check injector pulse. They make universal ones that you can get on amazon.com for pretty cheap. 2) YES.. the fuse box under the hood that holds or contains the fuel pump relay. To check the inputs, you would need to check the wires going into the relay or check the female cavities for power and ground. So to do this, pop the hood, open up the fuse box, remove the fuel pump relay. There will be four FEMALE cavities that the relay plugs into. With the relay removed, you can check all of these female cavities for power and ground with the key on and cranking the engine over. Two out of the four should have battery voltage with the key on and cranking. One will get grounded from the computer when cranking the engine over. This is the signal wire from the computer to the fuel pump relay to activate it to allow power through the relay (if it were plugged in) out to the fuel pump. You can check this with a test light or a voltmeter.3) The fuel pump should come on with the key on for 2 seconds and then go off until you crank the engine over. It should not stay on or running at all times with the key on.You can run these tests tomorrow and get back to me with the results even after you rate my answer. We will still be able to continue our conversation.I am glad I could help!Please don't forget to rate my answer so I get credit for assisting you today. Please take a moment to get familiar with our new rating system. This is very important and this affects me greatly. There are 5 ratings that are listed below. Please rate my service as number 5 "great service" for providing you timely accurate information specific to your vehicle or use the reply button to continue the conversation. 1) I expected more-------------Does not pay me, and means you had a negative experience2) Helped a little ------------Does not pay me, and means you had a negative experience3) Got the job done------------Pays me and means you had a positive experience4) Informative and helpful-----Pays me and means you had a positive experience5) Great service---------------Pays me and means you had a positive experienceAgain, if you have any additional questions, please feel free to reply by using the "CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION" button.Best RegardsAmedee
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST
I did use a test light on the fuse relay you are talking about with the key in the on position only, does it have to be cranked over? Also let's see if I can describe what happened. The fuse relay starting from the windshield to hood. First got a light, next one down a light as well, moving to the third one towards the passenger fender I got a light, the fourth one towards the drivers fender was an extremely faint weak light. Now with that being said does that relay spot for the relay good, and If so I still don't have any power to the fuel pump at all. Lastly you said the pump should turn on for a few seconds then off. I wonder if that's the cause of blowing the mini amp fuse constant times today.
Hello!Thanks for honoring your good faith deposit.YES.. because the computer only activates the fuel pump relay when turning the key on (for 2 seconds) and constantly when cranking the engine over, you will need to check for this ground to the fuel pump relay when cranking the engine over.YES.. the fuel pump relay is fused and this could be your issue. The relay might be getting power so it will not work if it does not have power.I will check another wiring diagram first thing in the morning. I am getting tired so I am going to get some sleep. I will be back online first thing in the morning so please feel free to reply back to me with any further questions you may have. I will continue to work with you until you are happy. I will not leave you hanging.Also, one thing to check, if you can get a hold of a voltmeter, check to see if the throttle position sensor on the throttle body is getting 5 volts on one of the three wires with the key in the "on" position. This will verify that the computer is awake with the key on.Going to log off. I will be looking forward to your reply! Talk to you in the morning.Amedee
I guess I am unsure of exactly where and what this ground is you are referring to, I will use my voltmeter tomorrow and chech that as well.
I checked the relay cracking the motor over. The top female slot has power towards the windshield. And the bottom passenger side slot gets power at cranking. The other two spots don't get any power.
The yellow orange wire you asked me to check I checked with a test light and when I crank it the test light lights up. And goes out when the key is removed from the car.
Hello!Sorry for the delay!IT sounds to me like you have two powers going into the fuel pump relay when cranking the engine over. This is good. However, we need to check to see if the computer is grounding the third wire to the relay in order to power activate the relay. To check for this ground, use your test light. Take the alligator clip of the test light and hook it to battery positive and touch the tip of the test light to each of these other two cavities and have someone crank the engine over. The test light should light up when cranking the engine over.Let me know!
Ok now prior to turning the motor over and the key out of the ignition I put the test light into the second female spot from the windshield and right now the test light is lite up. Upon cranking the motor the light still stays on. Moving to the other one the side closer to the drivers side fender cranking the motor with it hooked up to power the light does not turn on.
WOW!! It sounds to me like the computer is constantly activating the fuel pump relay. Are you sure that the alligator part of the test light is hooked up to battery positive?Did you say that the check engine light comes on with the key in the on position for a bulb check?Did you check for 5 volts at the TPS sensor with the key on?
No check engine light on right now, if that's the case then why isn't the fuel pump turning on right now then? And the tps sensor is where exactly
The TPS is located on the side of the throttle body. Just follow the intake snorkel from the air filter up to the intake or throttle body and you will see the TPS sensor. IT will have 3 wires going to it.It sounds to me like your computer may be malfunctioning. The computer should turn the check engine light on for a bulb check with the key in the on position. The computer should ONLY be grounding the fuel pump constantly relay when cranking the engine over
And where is this computer exactly located?
Under the dash on the drivers hand side.. left front piller
I have to take the dashboard apart? Or remove the panels from under the dashboard? Is this common to have a computer just stop working like this? I guess I have to get one from a dealership then?
Usually the computer does not go bad like this. This sounds a bit strange. We will need to do some digging before you replace the engine control module. You should not have to take the dash apart. The computer is accessed from underneath the dash. You might have to pop off the left hand kick panel to gain access to it or the under dash cover.. but this is only two screws.. it is really not hard to do.. it will look like a square module and will have lots of wires and several connectors going to it.Gain access to the computer and WITH THE KEY ON, check for power (using a voltmeter not a test light) on pins 8 and 9 pink wires.
Before we run this test, lets double check to be sure that the computer is not sending out 5 volts to the TPS with the key on. Lets run this check real quick.Let me know!
You do or don't want 5 volts at the tps sensor and what setting should I use on the volt metter
We should see 5 volts at the TPS sensor with the key on. I have a feeling there will not be 5 volts going to the TPS with the key on based on the information you have given me. But we should double check..the voltmeter gets set to 20 volts DC
Ok so here it what I got from the three tps wires the blue one gave a reading of 5.02. The white one gave a reading of 3.78. And the third wire the orange one gave 0.00 reading. What's next now.
WOW!! This checks out good. According to my wiring diagram, the computer sends out 5 volts going to the TPS on the yellow/orange wire. However, my diagram could be wrong. Just as long as we have 5 volts going to the TPS with the key on, we know that the computer is awake with the key on. This does not mean that the computer is good.. it just means that it is awake and sending out power to the TPS. This in fact checks out good. So from what your telling me, the computer is always grounding the fuel pump relay, this would indicate a bad computer. There is no other explanation left other than checking for power and grounds going into the computer with the key on. I suppose a bad ground could cause this sort of issue.. but it is not very likely. So yes.. the next step is to check all powers and ground going into the computer before replacing it. There will be two or more connectors at the computer. The ones we need to check are connector 133-1 and connector 33. They are different. Powers Connector 133-1 pin 1 red wire. Also, pins 7 red/black wire and pins 8 and 9 are pink wires. Connector 33 pin 22 red wire, 3 red/blue pins 21 and 14 orange wiresGrounds are also on connector 33 pins 1 and 2 black wires
Can you send me a picture of what this computer is suppose to loo like, I'm going to be very glad when my car runs again and send you a nice sizable tip for all your help. The junk yard has one but they need to know what the numbers are on mine and I still don't know what I'm looking for yet.
Is it called a body control module?
Close.. but no. The Body control module is still a computer, but this is the computer that controls the functions of the BODY of the vehicle.The PCM is the powertain control module and controls the functions of the powertrain.. engine and transmission. This is what we need to focus on.Here is the deal. Don't get me wrong.. I would absolutely LOVE to send you a wiring diagram or a connector view of this connector and what you should be checking. HOwever, unfortunately, I cannot copy and paste diagrams from any manuals because it is against copy write laws and I can get in BIG trouble. Trust me.. I would have sent them over to you already if this was allowed... I am very sorry.We have two options if you want to go this route. First, you can take a detailed video or detailed pictures of these connectors and send them to me and I will tell you which ones to check, OR you can go to alldata do it yourself and purchase a one time subscription[ for your vehicle for cheap and it will have all of this information in there including the PCM connector views. Here is the link
I am trying to figure out exactly where this PCM is located
Underneath the left hand side of the dash on the drivers side.
That is where I'm looking, I'm searching for a silver box. Does anything have to get removed to see it? Is the bcm is the way, is it above it to the right of it etc.
YOu will have to remove either the left side kick panel cover or the bottom cover under the steering column. It will be held in place by a few small screws and maybe a few small nuts or bolts. Dont be afraid to get in there and remove stuff. You wont hurt anything. It can all be put back together. It is all of the way up and to the left behind the cowl cross member.
You want me to find the ECM correct?
The engine computer module? Is that what I need to check and replace? If so that is located on the passenger side of the car. I do not see anything on the left for what you are asking me to locate nor can I find it in any of my reference books.
YES.. thats correct! We need to check the inputs to be sure they are ok before we replace it.Your best bet it to go to alldata.com and pay a small fee for a one time subscription. It will have the locations of the engine computer. It will tell you where it is, how to remove and replace it and it will have the connector view of the computer as well.
Well now that I know where it is what is it you want me to do with it. I also noticed now that the drivers side is completely apart and I turn the key on Incan hear the bcm block clicking when I turn the key on and off
Hello!We need to check the powers and grounds going into the computer to confirm it is getting what it needs in order to operate correctly. You need to use the information I have provided you with in my earlier post to check the powers and grounds.
So you want me to do this with the computer connected or disconnected?
There is only one wire harness that goes into this Simens ECM. And its nearly close to impossible to check the connections with the computer hooked up.
At this point you want me to use a test light now one all these wires? This will take me alittle time if thats the case.
It is best to use a voltmeter while checking these with the computer still connected. So the connectors are still going to be plugged in. You will want to back probe the cavities at the PCM connector. You can do this using a paper clip and then check for power and ground on the end of the paper clip. If you use the meter lead, it will be too big and may ruin the cavities. Here is an example of someone back probing the cavities to get a voltmeter reading.Click here
I got power readings from all that you told me to check, upon checking the grounds I'm not exactly sure how to do that and what I'm suppose to be looking for on the voltmeter.
To check the grounds to the computer, use a voltmeter and put the red lead on battery positive and then touch the black lead to the paper clip back probed into the cavity grounds. If the grounds are good, your voltmeter will read battery voltage.
I took it upon myself and did that and they are all good as well.
Excellent!one last thing to check before I forget, I also want to check the signal wire to the fuel pump relay at the computer connector to be sure we are getting an accurate reading. It is going to be the yellow/orange wire leaving the PCM on pin 69 connector C33.This wire should get GROUNDED when cranking the engine over.
I just bought a new ECM to make life easier and will put it in shortly
Sounds good.. but I wish we would have checked everything first.. but it is up to you.
I can still check it before putting the new one in it's only one additional wire to check
Well replacing the ECM did nothing still in the same spot now with still no power to the fuel pump, I don't even hear it turning on at all
Does the check engine light come on with the key on? Do you have anything to pull codes with?
Only code I am showing says pending P0447 evaporative emission control system vent control circuit open
Ok.. lets go back and re check the fuel pump circuit. Lets check for the ground to the relay when cranking the engine over.Let me know!
This is getting very confusing at this point, I think we have tried everything so far. Could it be something in the ignition switch?
Its almost as if a security feature is preventing and cutting everything off, doesn't the bcm have something built into it
Hello!Sorry for the delay!We can guess all we want, but we need to check to see if the computer is grounding the fuel pump relay. If you want to go a different route, then we need to check the injector pulse and fuel pressure when cranking the engine over.Let me know what you find!
Ok so you want me to check to see if the relay is grounding the fuel pump, maybe I'm not doing it correctly. I think I remember see the front fuse box smoking in the last day prior to writing to you, maybe there's an issue in there as well. But that doesn't make sense since the fuel pump did turn on yesterday. It only turned off after I disconnected the battery. After reconnecting the battery is when the fuel pump ceased to turn back on.
Ok. first, the relay powers up the fuel pump. The computer grounds the fuel pump relay. So we need to check both the inputs and output of the fuel pump relay. We need to see what is going on. Again, check for any anti theft or security lights on or flashing on the dash.
There is nothing at all on my dashboard flashing, if there where, we're would be on the dash board? I'll check again an see if anything comes on.
It should be right in the center.. let me know about the other things.
i wish i knew how or where to get a factory hyundai scan tool, that would reset the anti-theft feature. I seem to think this is the current issue being that I disconnected the battery for a duration on time.
It cannot be just reset.. I would try using another ignition key.If that does not work, you can always try disconnecting the battery one more time.. but if this was a security issue, it should flag a codes in the computer.
i have just a basic code scanner, not a full diagnostic tester. I am looking now to try to find a good sdiagnostic scan tool, that allows me to reset and see everything on the car. Any suggestions.
Here are some linkshttp://www.oemtools.com/homeproducts/hyundaikia.htmlhttp://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/568832855/Amazing_FCAR_F3_G_car_or.html
I saw the g scan tool unable to locate it anywhere besides the distributor
Thats the only place I know of to get this scanner. The only other thing I can recommend using is a snap on scanner like the solus or modis..
I wonder if it will allow me to reset things or is it just a scanner to pull codes like the one I have now
Just pull codes from other modules..
I'm at the point where I had no choice but to bring the car to a shop to see of they can figure it out, if and when they do I'll let you know what the final issue was.
Sounds good! I am eager to hear what the final verdict is. I will be looking forward to your reply!Amedee
The car ran for a half hour yesterday. There is a short in the wire harness somewhere when they giggle it. Then the car cuts out they giggle the harness. They are tracing it
Hello!Thanks for the update! Let me know what they find!