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Phil
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 5669
Experience:  Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial
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Hi, Im having issues with my furnace. It is a Trane Furnace

Customer Question

Hi,

I'm having issues with my furnace. It is a Trane Furnace TUD120C960J0. In summer, I saw the Blower in the furnace was not working on a hot day. I went into the basement and found basement flooded with water. The water was coming from the furnace. Suspected that the condencer drain could have been blocked. I removed the dirt at end of the drain to make sure there was no dirt that was blocking the drain. I called HVAC technician, who said the control board is blown and that is the reason for blower not working, and replaced the board. The blower worked for a month and another hot day, same problem. The second technician came and tried to put a new board, however said the new board is not working because there is some short in the furnace that is causing the control boards to fail. Their recommendation is to replace the entire furnace, which I feel may not be required.

The current state of my furnace (the way the 2nd technician left it)
1)the thermostat wires are not connected to the control board.
2)the main power wires seems to be swaped (When I compare with my neighbor's furnace connections)
3)When I close the furnace door the blower starts, which they say it should not happen while thermostat is not connected, could be the control board is not working right. However, since the blower is working, I feel I don't have to replace the entire furnace. Even if I replace the furnace, the issue with te condenser and water leaking into the furnace may comback and cause the issue again with the new furnace.

I'm trying to figure out the real issue. And how I should go about solving it that shelling out lot of money for no reason. Thanks a lot for your help. The days are getting cold, and I need my furnace fixed before it gets really cold.

Thanks
Sur
Submitted: 11 months ago.
Category: HVAC
Expert:  Phil replied 11 months ago.
Welcome to Just Answer!

If you can give me 30 minutes or so I can see if I can find the service manual for that unit in my files. Meantime tell me how deep the water got in the basement and how high up it got into the furnace.

We can go from there

Phil
Customer: replied 11 months ago.
The condenser sits on top of furnace. The water leaked into the furnace, the filter was all wet and there was water in the furnace underneath the blower. Water was 1/4 inch high on the basement floor. The level never reached the furnace base, it is just that the water leaked through furnace because condenser sits on top.
Expert:  Phil replied 11 months ago.
Hello again, thank you for the explanation.

That was condensate water from the cooling coil, leaking because the drain was clogged as you suspect ....and that damaged the electronics in the furnace.

Some furnace types have a condensing section down inside the furnace, your is not that type however.

----------

If the furnace is over 10 years old, replacing it will not be a bad idea... its only worth an attempt at fixing it if it is less than 5 years old.

The second technician should be avoided.

A common ploy when a company is trying to sell you a new furnace is to leave it taken apart or worse sabotaged so that other technicians will have a hard time fixing it.

If these techs are from the same company I would tend to avoid the company...leaving the furnace apart is an unethical practice.

Tell me how old the furnace is, and tell me please which direction you are from the center of the nearest city... I will look around and see if there is an HVAC service company with good reviews in your area.

Phil
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

The furnace is 13 year old. I live in Collegeville PA-19426. I've American Home shield insurance. The 1st and second technicians are through American Home Shield. They say it costs $4500 to replace a furnace. And the insurance says I've have to pay $1000 out of my pocket and if I get it fixed through someone outside, the insurance is void on the furnace.

Expert:  Phil replied 11 months ago.
Hello again, replacing the furnace that old is warranted in this case, and $1,000 out of pocket is not bad at all.

If you choose to rate my answer positively, I get paid part of your deposit...and will keep the question open for any follow up questions.

Thanks!

Phil
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 5669
Experience: Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial
Phil and other HVAC Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

I got my furnace replaced. It is a Payne PG8JAA/MAA model. The warrenty company replaced my original Trane 120 BTU one with 110 BTU model of payne. They say it is a good one and is more efficient.


Any thoughts about the furnace I got?

Expert:  Phil replied 11 months ago.
Hello again,

That Payne furnace is made by Carrier corporation, a good company, the furnace itself is their bottom of the line unit...it is 80% efficient. If it is more efficient than your old Trane furnace it is only marginally more efficient.

It is however a reasonable and equal replacement for your old trane furnace if it has a 4" sheet metal flue pipe and is over 10 years old.

I recommend those types of low efficiency furnaces for all but very cold climates because they are easy to repair and require drastically less maintenance that the 90% and 95% efficient furnaces which I am generally cautious about recommending.

They paid about $600 wholesale for the Payne furnace. It should last you 15 or 20 years with only minor repairs required.

Phil



Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thank you. We live suburbs of Philadelphia. Do you think it is okay for the climate here. Also the warranty company replaced 120BTU trane funace with 110BTU Payne one. Will this be a problem for me? My house is 3000 sqft area.

Expert:  Phil replied 11 months ago.

Hello again, the new 110,000 BTU Payne furnace will output about as much as heat as the old Trane furnace..thats not a difference you will notice in your area. You should be fine with the Payne unit.

 

Engaging the insurance company in a debate on quality and the relatively minor details is a fight you are unlikely to win because of their use of words like "or available equivalent" in their contract... its fuzzy wording.

 

These contracts are weasel worded by attorneys specializing in that activity.

 

Such wording is common on all major engineering and construction contracts and is upheld...when in fact there is seldom ever an *exact equivalent in all aspects. and in many cases a cheaper 'equivalent' is chosen, when in fact it is of lesser quality than what was specified.

 

Having said that, many Trane units use ball bearing motors, the Payne furnace does not, The ball bearing motors last longer.

 

If you have air conditioning attached then there is an air volume issue. The Payne unit will have very *slightly less air flow capability than the Trane unit in some cases, enough to *possibly make a difference in air conditioning performance but that would remain to be seen

 

Summary: You could hassle them, but are not likely to prevail, and will most likely not notice any difference in performance.

 

Tell me what the temperatures have been in your area lately, and if you have AC attached to the furnace or not. and how the new furnace seems be operating.



Phil

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thanks for the information. Winter least is 21-37 F and Summer peaks are 64-84 F. The AC is outside, but the furnace fan blows the air through the condenser that is inside the house, and sits on top of furnace.


 


Sur

Expert:  Phil replied 11 months ago.
Hello again, that furnaces should work really well for you, especially in such a mild climate during the summer. Heating is very seldom a problem... and in your case with that relatively mild climate cooling should be fine as well.

Feel free to stay in touch, even months later if you like.

Phil

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