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Phil
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: HVAC
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Experience:  Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial
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A packaged ac unit in my wine cellar is 5 years old. It is

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A packaged ac unit in my wine cellar is 5 years old. It is selfcontained wall mounted ac unit (Breezaire model WKL 4000). It has been working fine to maintain room temperature at 55 F last 5 years until a couple days ago. It came with a power extension cord and it was connected to a GFCI wall receptacle and is getting power from a dedicated power circuit. I found the unit off two days ago even though room temperature was 67 F. When I had reset the button on the GFCI receptacle, the unit came on a few seconds and tripped the GFCI recepacle. I thought that the GFCI receptacle could go bad. So I connected the ac power cord to another receptacle, it was working fine. So I replaced the GFCI to regular receptacle in the wine cellar and connected the power cord into the newly installed receptacle. It has working fine and it has run almost a full day because outdoor temperature was mid 90 F. When I checked the ac unit this morning after 24 hours, it was off even though wine cellar temperature was 64 F. I found that the circuit breaker in the electrical panel had tripped. When I reset the circuit breaker, the ac unit started but cut the power off immediately again. So I plugged into another power cord with reset button, it cuts off power again. I had cleaned surface of condenser coil a few days ago. What may cause the AC unit cuts off its power? Your expert opinion to fix the problem is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your timely advise.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: HVAC
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Welcome to Just Answer!

Your tests and trials so far prove that there is a burned out motor, electrical short, or bad capacitor in the unit.


If the breaker trips the very same instant that you plug in the Breeze air unit it is a dead shorted wire or burned out motor.

If the breaker trips 3 to 5 seconds after you plug in the unit, and it humms heavily in the meantime... then the problem is a bad run capacitor most likely.


A bad run capacitor is about a $200 repair job.... a burned out compressor is a $500 to $600 fix... a burned out fan motor is a $350 fix approximately.


If you choose to rate this answer and diagnosis *positively, I will hold the question open and we can continue with no time limit...... with coaching on how to do the repair yourself or deal with the service company who does such repairs.

Thanks!

Phil




. I hold questions open after positive ratings to allow for unlimited follow up. Please be patient though. The research & typing take time
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 5609
Experience: Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial
Phil and other HVAC Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear Phil,


 


Thank for quick response.


I will test the motor, compressor and capacitorcircuits if they are reusable conditions and let you know the result.


Thanks for your service.


Won C

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear Phil,


 


New things has developed after I talked to you.


Five hours later, I was trying to test motor and capacitor, but couldn't because all components are being enclosed and casing is being riveted. It is not serviceable. When I pluged the ac unit into the electrical receptacle, it started, But this time compressor doesn't seem to work. I measured temperatures as follows:


Condenser air intake = 75 F


Condenser air outlet = 76 F


Evaporator air intake = 70 F


Evaporator air outlet = 70 F


Outside air tempertaure = 98 F


 


It uses R-134a. There is no authorized Breezaire service companys in Virginia. Can it be serviced by locally available regular licensed AC service companies?

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello, you can look in the phone book yellow pages under 'refrigeration>commercial> service' Those are the type of people who service that kind of equipment.

They remove the unit from the wall, and drill any of the pop rivets out that they need to. in order to diagnose and repair.

You could do the same if you like.. then drill holes for 1/2" long sheet metal screws to put it back together. I recommend that approach. I would think twice before spending $600 or so for a new compressor on that unit.

also check the warranty, most of those had a 5 year warranty or longer.

Stay in touch as necessary,

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear Phil,


 


To follow up your advise. I had requested ac service to one of five star rated heating & cooling company in northern VA on Sat 7/20. The technitian came out and looked at the ac unit for a minute. And then he said "Taking out the rivets is not recommended because it is sealed by factory and we can't quaranty its outcome if we take rivets out and repair. minimum costs just taking unit from the wall and rivets out is $200." So I denied his further services. I plan to send the unit to Breezaire in San Diago, CA.


Thanks again.


Won

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again.... thanks for the information. That is virtually unheard of in this business. The cost of shipping alone will be over $200.. I would think twice about sending it to San Diego.

Try calling the company in San Diego first and ask if they have a shop in your area that does their service work... this is the first time I have heard of a local company not willing to work on a Breezaire unit. I can also call them if you wish Monday.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I was told there is no authorized dealer for the Breezaire in nova region. If you can find a company proving such a service would be appreciated. It uses R-134a refrigerant, which I think it has been used for auto ac this day.
I know it'd be beyond your duty of work, but I still think that your advise is doable locally. My zip cide is 22066. Thanks, Phil.
Best regards,
Won
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, I can't search by zip code only by physical location... tell me please which direction you are from the center of the nearest larger town or city and I can get you a list of local providers... some with good reviews hopefully... about half will have no problem accepting your unit for repairs.

They will charge $150 to $200 to take it apart and do the diagnosis, thats the biggest part of most repairs, unless the compressor is burned out... that would be more money than I would generally recommend spending on repairs for that unit... in that case we need to find out if its a 5 or 10 year warranty on the compressor and sealed system.... and make our decision from there.

Phil
.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Phil,
I live in Great Falls in Fairfax county, VA. It is five miles toward Leesburg, which is west from the Tyson's Corner (beltway 495). It is approx 10 miles from City of Fairfax and 18 miles from Washington, DC toward west.
I'd like my ac unit be repaired locally.
Please provide me with local provider.
Thank you very much. I look forward to be hearing from you soon.
Have a nice day.
Won
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,

I am not getting particularly good reviews from appliance repair outfits in your area.

This is a small 2 man shop about 15 miles away...that type of shop generally has a vested interest in taking care of their customers....even if they are not able to answer the phone at times. my best recommendation is to remove the unit and take it to them.. that will save you money and make it more likely that will want to work on the unit..... call them and ask if they will work on it, tell them about the pop rivets etc... meantime I will call Breezaire in San Diego to see what they say.

Zoom Tech Herndon, VA ‎ (703) 870-7715 ‎ Category: Appliance Repair Service 2 reviews · "Phone just seems to ring and ring, never get's answered and there appears ..." -

Phil
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, I called Breezaire, they said you can remove the side panels by using an 1/8" drill bit, protruding from the chuck on the drill 1/4 inch (to avoid drilling into the refrigerant tubes).

Remove the side panels by drilling out the 6 rivets on each side... replace using a prop rivet tool and 1/8" rivets.

That would allow you do the checks I mentioned at the beginning of our discussion yourself with a multi meter.

Or you can call the appliance repair company in my previous post and they should have no trouble doing that work.

Stay in touch as needed.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear Phil,


I've been trying to contact Zoom Tech Herndon all day yesterday, but no luck. I have called many other appliance repair companies and refrigeration service companies, but I couldn't find one who would do services for the thru-the-wall AC unit. Many companies seem experts on many ac systems but the thru-the-wall unit. I'll keep trying to find one. I might try Brezaire if they'd recommend service companies for their units.


Have a nice day!


Best regards,


Won

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again Won, the reason most AC companies do not service through the wall units is because there is not a lot of money in it for them..... added to that, a long drive of 10 or 20 miles one way puts most shops off.... you may want to call them again and ask if they will do a diagnosis on it if you bring it in.


In reviewing the shops in your area over the weekend, it was apparent that there is a problem getting quality service in your area... some companies do well on some jobs, then poorly on the next project or don't show up at all.

Ive already called Breezaire, they have no relationships with service companies in your area.

I think your best bet is take the unit in to Zoom Tech and ask them do diagnose and repair.... after calling them on the phone first to make the arrangements. That saves them a trip and will enable them to diagnose it easily in just a few minutes.

Small, owner owned shops are often busy and do not answer the phone as they should.... but at least you are dealing with someone who cares about your business. Thats either a red flag, or just good sign that they really busy.... you will have to decide that after talking to the owner.

Tell them that the pop rivets can be drilled out of the side panels..it is not actually a sealed unit... the manufacturer just chose to use rivets instead of screws. tell them to leave the 1/8" drill bit sticking out of the chuck, no more than 1/2 an inch.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Dear Phil,
I had talked to an owner of refrigeration repair shop two days ago and sent pictures of the ac unit at his request. I explained to him type of the unit, how the housing is being enclosed and problem I've experienced. He said he is so busy these days so earliest date he could out is coming Sunday 7/28.
I'll let you know the result. Have a nice weekend!
PS:
I had tried to make contact with Zoom Tech, but still no luck yet. No answer at all.
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, I would skip zoom tech at this point. This man should be able to give you a complete diagnosis and quote a flat rate for the repair after his first visit.

Let me know what he says, we can go from there. it will pay you to be there watching him work with his tools, then tell me verbatim if possible what he says... I can tell from that pretty much if he is competent or not.

We can go from there,

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Good morning Phil,
He came out on Sat afternoon. He took out rivets and removed housing. After he carefully removed insulation panel where compressor and it's relay are. The relay was found to be badly burned and lines that appeared to be connected the compressor were burned. He said compressor is badly damaged, no longer functioning and required replacement.
He suggested as follows:
- compressor, relay, starter and filter dryer need to be replaced
- labor cost for replacement parts will be $ 300.
- can't find the above parts locally therefore get them from the Breeaire

I'll find out how much those parts cost from the Breezaire on Monday.
New unit costs $1200.

It may not be worth to repairs. I will find out on Monday.

Have a nice weekend.

Won

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, well at least you know whats wrong with it... and his price is right...however everything else is not quite totally right.

These compressors are off the shelf items used by hundreds of different manufacturers as a rule.. their start relays and capacitors are entirely available at any wholesale refrigeration and AC parts wholesaler. Most items made in the US use American made compressors. If the compressor is from Asia, then he will have to order them from Breezaire. (those parts generally wholesale for $50 or so, he will need a new compressor terminal pg tail kit as well, the compressor uses specialized wire terminals)

That range of failures is entirely electrical. Saying that a new refrigerant drier is needed makes no sense at all... if a new drier were actually needed there would have been a refrigerant leak, and a lot of other items and charges related to that.

Its like saying your car had its ashtrays over flowing, so you had to replace the transmission. then quoting a price for just emptying the ashtrays. it does not compute. ask him about why a new drier is needed. that will tell us a lot about him.

-----------

Your next move should be to personally inspect the 3 posts on the compressor where the wires attach and tell me how *burnt they look... then use the point of a sharp steak knife to see if you can scrape one of them clean.

Look for any signs of oil leaking from around the pins where they enter the compressor... thats a molten glass seal. I need to know if These are damaged or not...

_____________

The way a start capacitor and start relay for one of those compressors is bought is to take all of the numbers stamped into the metal plate spot welded to the compressor to the wholesale house and have them look it up... those parts are in stock locally if it is an American made compressor.... Techumseh, or Copeland.

If its a Chinese compressor then Breezaire will have the parts.

Let me know, we can go from there.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

 


hi Phil,


 


The compressor is still in placed in very tight space, so it is very difficult to read any labels on the compressor. What I was able to read using mirror sick are:
"115 volt-60 HZ, SC 12G, made in Germany, G104, 7200" I tried to locate name of manufacturer but couldn't. Is Techumseh German manufacturer?



I found three wires on 3/4inches diameter terminal(?) that attached to the compressor, and one of them burned, cut and no longer there. I didn't see signs of oil leaking around the compressor. The relay part is burned badly.


 


Breezaire informed me that costs for the compressor and its accessories is $265 plus freight. I don't mind spending that much as long as my ac unit can be fixed with right parts.


 


Here is a $600 question: Is it worth to repair it?


 


I look forward to be hearing from you soon.


Regards,


 


Won

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,

There is key point we need to discuss in very specific terms.
That is to differentiate the 3 prongs that protrude from the compressor...from the 3/4"
connector with the 3 female terminals in it.... which is burned off, one of the terminals in the plug? or one of the prongs or posts that protrude from the compressor.

If it is only one of the terminals in the plug that is burned off, and all of the prongs or posts protruding from the compressor are ok and not burnt badly... then you probably do not need a new compressor.... just the $300 in work that the service man recommended.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Hi Phil,


 


It's been a while.


I had been out of town last a few weeks due to unexpected family matter.


 


New compressor (chinese made Danfoss model) has been installed yesterday and it is working so far now.


 


Thanks for your continuing and practice advice.


 


It has been an amazing journey to come to conclusion.


 


Thanks again, you are truly a professinal I can rely on.


 


Best fregards,


 


Won C

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