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Scott
Scott, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 387
Experience:  30 yrs. experience as self-employed HVAC Service Technician. Universal EPA Certification, NATE Certified, Trane Service One, ACCA ACE Certified.
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We installed (2) split system 16 SEER Amana HVAC units in our

Resolved Question:

We installed (2) split system 16 SEER Amana HVAC units in our home in southern California in 2009.

One three ton and one five ton

ASC16 Compressors

AMV80 Furnances

At least the three ton system has not worked properly since it was installed. I suspect the five ton is not running up to snuff either.

The compressors have the Copeland 2 stage scrolling compressors.

The furnaces are 2 stage heating and cooling.

Do the fans on the compressors increase speed when running at stage 2 cooling? Should we not hear the difference?

Do the furnaces change CFM (increase blower speed) when running in stage 2 cooling and or heating?

Contractor used a 3/4" x 3/8" line set on the 3 ton unit. Specs call for 7/8" x 3/8" - How much efficiency did we lose do to this?

I feel the equipment is good and properly sized for out home. Not so sure the install was done properly, particularly the undersized line set on the 3 ton unit and also it is a fact that the contractor did not use the W2 terminal at the furnaces despite the fact that we have 2 stage heating and cooling T stats installed.

Also - can someone please explain the roll of the "Comfort Alert" module inside the condensing unit in terms of how it controls the unit? I know it also is supposed to provide diagnostics...... Contractor only ran 3 wires to the three ton condensing unit from the furnace (omitted the red wire that feeds the brain on the comfort alert module). Could this be preventing the compressor from kicking into stage 2?

Also - when the five ton condensing unit stops, it kind of makes an abrupt stop and the fan on top of it does not continue to run..... Is this normal?

We also hear a loud buzzing sound coming from the attic whenever the five ton condensing unit starts. I think it is the wires in the conduit feeding it rattling due to the start up current. Would a hard start kit help this? How much is one of these?

We have had a hard time getting our contractor to get his install correct. he has been out many times under warranty since the original install, but he never seems to correct it. We are giving him one more chance tomorrow. if he does not get it right then, i intend to call Amana and fill them in on all the problems Do you think they will accommodate me by sending me another contractor under Warranty?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: HVAC
Expert:  Michelle-Mod replied 1 year ago.
Hello,

I'm Michelle and I'm a moderator for this topic.

We have been working with our professionals to try to help you with your question. Sometimes it may take a bit of time to find the right fit.

I was checking to see if you had already found your answer or if you still needing assistance from one of our professionals?

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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I will continue to wait.

Expert:  Michelle-Mod replied 1 year ago.
Hello,

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX continue to look for a professional to assist you. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance while you wait.

Best,

Michelle-Moderator
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Please find a good one who is very familar with the Amana equipment we have installed.


 


Thank you and have a good day.

Expert:  Scott replied 1 year ago.

Hello,

This is Scott, I'll attempt to answer this list of questions the best I can, I am familiar with the Amana brand and the models that you speak of, but you need to know that the Amana and Goodman brands are sold to dealers through different distributorship's throughout the country, and the distributors have access to support techs or factory techs.. so if you get no satisfaction from your dealer, go to the distributor they can get you the help you need, also an on site factory rep visit if need be.

1) The condenser fans should increase in speed, however it's hard to notice, buy without the comfort alert operational (wired in) then you may not have true 2 stage.

2) Depending on the blower profile selected by you and the contractor Yes the CFM changes on the blower and this you should be able to tell.

3)The line set not only do you lose eff. but also capacity, and depending on length and lift it could be as may as 7,000 btu. and take the SEER rating from 16 to 13.5 to 14.

4) the comfort alert lets a technician know about power trips, also through current draw, high press trips and such.

5) I suspect that the 5 ton unit being a Scroll compressor may have the wrong kind of expansion valve installed on it.

6) A start kit may help the current slap in the conduit if that is indeed what is causing the buzzing noise, in my company I sell that kit for $125 which in my area is cheap for that service, but I have seen them as high as $375.00 installed in other areas of the country.

Scott, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 387
Experience: 30 yrs. experience as self-employed HVAC Service Technician. Universal EPA Certification, NATE Certified, Trane Service One, ACCA ACE Certified.
Scott and 6 other HVAC Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for the reply.


 


#1 How can I tell which distrbutor my dealer (contractor) bought the equipment through? I am thinking the only way I am ever going to get the systems running correctly is to have them send out one of their "sharpies" to troobleshoot and repair it. I am hoping thay can back charge my contractor for not installing it properly in the first place. nfortunaly we paid him in full back in 2009 when he installed the system. I was promised a 10 year parts and 5 year labor Waranty.


 


#2 What is your theory on the expansion valve on the 5 Ton unit being the wrong type? I would think if he installed that one the wrong type he would have installed the 3 ton system the wrong type as well. Both systems (Aspen) evaporator coils are marked that thay came with TXV valves...


 

Expert:  Scott replied 1 year ago.
Look up Goodman or Amana distribution near you. If you use the serial numbers from the machines. They tell you if they sold them. Also sometimes its easy to ask the contractor who the distributor is. Or ask your favorite tech from there.

As far as the valve it needs to have an equalizer on it. Some of the aspen coils don't have that
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Just left the house and met the contractors men. (he needed 13 days to schedule, which of course, did not make us happy). Looks like thay are going to make good on the corrections including installing the correct size line set on the three ton unit under the five year labor warantee, so that's good. They even sent the same guy as foreman that originally installed the project in 2009. (all new units, ducts, vents, electronic air cleaners and UV lights)."Joe" the foreman says there are two valves on each system, one at the condensing unit and one at the evaporator coil. Does this sound right? How can I be sure thay have installed the correct valves? How can I insure proper two stage heating and cooling on each system before thay leave the site (Joe says this will take a few days). I don't think Joe fully understands the opperation of the comfort alert module and nether do I, so any more information on it will be greatly appreciated, particularly how it controlls the compressor. How do we select the correct blower profiles to insure maximum comfort and economy of operation?

Expert:  Scott replied 1 year ago.

Here is a link to the Comfort Alert Manual, It will explain the operation better than I can do by copying and pasting the info which will violates our terms of service but I can give you the link, and you can read the copyrighted information.

http://www.descoenergy.com/pdf/Comfort%20Alert%20Diagnostics%20Copeland.pdf

We are only concerned with the expansion valves that are on the indoor coils, They need to have a pressure relief bleed port. Keep in mind that Scroll compressors are louder when they shut down than the same capacity reciprocating compressor.

To ensure that the machines are functioning in a 2 stage operation, all you need do is listen to the indoor units. and at both stages check the temperature drop between the supply air and the return air. And be sure the drop stays about the same between stages, even though it is moving more CFM.

As far as heating the furnace control board has a setting that has a timer if 1st stage stays on for 5,10, 15 minutes depending on setting the second stage of heat kicks on both the burner and the blower will pick up speed.

In the installation and operation manual there are tables that tell how to set the dip switches on the control board for low fire heat, high fire heat, low cool, high cool.

You'll be given choices on blower profiles and on and off times, as far as comfort or economy, the system is very economical naturally when you have variable speed systems they are built for comfort. You'll have to decide if you want more Dehumidification, or sensible cooling.

Blower choices will be 350 cfm per ton, 400 cfm per ton, or 450cfm per ton.

I have to assume that your installer knows how to set the blower speeds, by the way the table is also on the blower door.

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