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240 volts at the breaker but not at the 240 outlet for the

 
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Customer Question

240 volts at the breaker but not at the 240 outlet for the airhandler

 



Already Tried:
new breaker;moved breaker to another spot in breaker box; checked 240 outlet for loose connections;checked for power at transformer.

Submitted: 338 days and 22 hours ago.
Category: HVAC
Value: $30
Status: CLOSED
Picture
Expert:  Phil replied 338 days and 22 hours ago.


Phil :

All work to be done by licensed professional. WE KEEP GOING UNTIL YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION YOU NEED, I come and go. This is step ONE.

Phil :

Hello, welcome to Just Answer. I will stay with you on this until we get it figured out, however I am off to bed in an hour, we can pick it up in the morning after that,

Phil :

Tell me where the air handler is located and what type of outlet is there. Is it a 240 volt receptacle or a switch box, with a breaker or fuses inside

Phil :

Do you have a multi meter to test voltages with, please describe it,

Customer :

240 volts at the breaker but not at the 240 outlet for the airhandler

Customer :

240 volt receptacle

Phil :

Thanks

Phil :

Thats unusual, normally those are hard wired to a switch box

Customer :

I Do have a multi meter to test voltages with

Customer :

there is no fuse box or switch

Phil :

If you are qualified, experienced and safe working with high voltage electricity you can turn the breaker off to that circuit

Phil :

then remove the receptical from the box its its mounted in, and inspect for a bad wire connection.

Customer :

I have done so

Customer :

no bad connections

Phil :

If the connections look good, be sure you have all the wires in the open so that none are touching the box or conduit, turn the power back on, and check *between all three combinations of wire. and tell me what reads you get

Customer :

and the receptacle is hard wired

Customer :

no power at all

Phil :

If you get no power to the back side of the receptacle. but you have power at the break then *both wires, line 1 and line 2 would have be disconnected or broken somewhere between the breaker and the receptacle.

Phil :

the chances of both being broken are one in a million.

Customer :

I think thats exactly what the problem is just do know how it happened

Phil :

The chances of one of the wire nuts coming loose in a splice box somewhere in between are high

Phil :

but that would not keep you from getting a 110 volt read from the unbroXXX XXne when checking to the ground wire.

Customer :

could not get continuity with breaker in on position

Phil :

To get continuity you must have the meter set on ohms.... if you put the test probes on live power checking for continuity that way you will burn out a cheap meter, and cause an expensive meter to malfunction

Phil :

If we do this step by step we can figure this out fast,

Customer :

old stlye Fredricks have grounds and heutrals in a separate box from hot wires

Phil :

First step, Put the meter on volts and check some 110v wall outlets to see if the meter works

Customer :

check

Customer :

it works

Customer :

federal box

Phil :

Are you in the US or the Uk

Customer :

US

Phil :

Thanks

Phil :

All receptacles sold in the US legally for 240v service have three wires attached, line 1. line 2 and the ground.

Phil :

Some have 4 wires attached, a white neutral in addition

Phil :

These cannot be separate by law, nor are the receptacles and cord caps built to separate the line power from the ground and neutral,

Phil :

away from that arrangement

Phil :

Right now we are checking at the receptacle you mentioned, what happens inside the air handler is a different story,

Customer :

1971 built building; breaker box has, a breaker, the ground and neutrals are in a separate box,

Customer :

the receptacle is good

Customer :

nothing loose nothing burnt

Phil :

On this end I need to be specific, by 'good' do you mean there is power to the receptacle?

Phil :

or do you mean it just looks good

Customer :

no power absolutely no power

Phil :

Thanks, in that case there is a disconnect of both line one and line two somewhere between the receptacle and the breaker

Customer :

I am afraid thats my situation

Customer :

the air handler is upstairs breaker is down stairs

Phil :

Ive trained a few dozen men in this business,. after a while one can get a feel for these sorts of situations

Customer :

its a bad feeling

Phil :

A metering mistake is limitlessly more likely than both wires broken

Phil :

Ive been on dozens of these situations....

Phil :

it is very easy not to get a voltage read by poking the meter probes into the front slots on the receptacle

Phil :

thats what most people try, it fails about 80% of the time. no read,

Phil :

thats due to the way the probe tips fit into the slots,. the don't make good contact.

Phil :

that is why I wanted you to remove the receptacle from the box its mounted in and check power to the back side of the receptacle where the wires connect

Phil :

Had you checked it *from the back yet?

Customer :

I took the receptacle off and checked the naked wires.......

Customer :

no power

Phil :

And we want to check each wire to ground, and between all combinations of wires.

Phil :

if its still dead, the odds are that there is a manual disconnect between the breaker and the receptacle

Phil :

the odds are about 1 in a thousand that both wires have burned off at a junction box hidden between the receptacle and the breaker.

Phil :

Earlier you said you checked for *continuity* at the breaker, that indicates a mistake in checking the breaker,

Customer :

seems likely that there is a junction box hidden somewhere

Phil :

it could be, but a J box failure normally just burns one of the lines. not both

Phil :

sort of like getting flat tires on a car, its one at a time, not all 4

Phil :

Tell me the minute details of how you checked for voltage on the 240 volt breaker in the breaker panel, did you have to remove the face of the panel, the one with all the rectangular knock outs on it:

Customer :

what I said is that I checked continuity with the breaker in the on position not that I checked at the breaker,,,,,,,,,,,,I would agree except that I cant find any sign of a manual disconnect

Phil :

Thanks

Customer :

yes I removed the dead front

Phil :

Tell me the details of how you checked continuity on the breaker, did you have to remove it from the panel entirely to do that:?

Customer :

1st a simple continuity check of the breaker itself ..............then the wire ends that connect at the receptacle detached from the receptacle

Customer :

I still have 10' of wall to look for a manual disconnect or a "J" box

Phil :

Normally we do not need to check *continuity on a breaker, we can, but we do not. we check for voltage on the breaker wire connection when its snapped into place in the panel... and if we get voltage there, we know its good

Customer :

I check everything when I have done all I know to do and have the same problem

Phil :

so this continuity thing has me confused.... the only way a continuity check makes sense is if you remove the entire breaker from the panel. remove all the wires, and take to the kitchen table and use an ohm meter to test between the clip in the back that grabs the bus and the wire terminal.

Phil :

If you have voltage you would not need to remove the breaker to check continuity

Phil :

This is why I am suspecting the meter reads

Phil :

In the past I have made the mistake of checking the wrong breaker, and found that it was another breaker that was off, and the one I was working on was for another system

Phil :

That is the type of situation one usually finds in these cases

 
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