How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask Tom Your Own Question

Tom
Tom, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 770
Experience:  16+yrs HVAC/R service. Residential Commerical Industrial
18550064
Type Your HVAC Question Here...
Tom is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

FURNACE Payne Plus 90 Model 398AAZ060120, Series A, approx

Customer Question

QUESTION: Is my circuit board short circuited from the condensate leakage?

FURNACE: Payne Plus 90 Model 398AAZ060120, Series A, approx age is 15 years.
Replaced the igniter lockout control box 3 years ago.
Replaced the external condensate sump pump 4 years ago.

Last month in a cold snap the condensate tube from the pump froze where it exits the house.
Condensate water then overflowed onto the basement floor.
I removed the external condensate sump pump and let the condensate flow directly into a bucket on the floor next to the furnace. (Emptying every 3-4 hours as needed) As soon as the cold snap was over I returned the condensate pump to the system and checked/confirmed for free-flow to the outside. Worked fine.

4 weeks later I noticed rusty colored water on the floor around the base of the furnace. The condensate was not flowing out of the furnace. The furnace started acting strange and not cycling properly.
Symptoms:
Thermostat calls for heat:
1) The draft inducer motor/blower turns on and the igniter/lockout initiates the sparking sequence.
2) The pilot solenoid on the main gas valve “makes” and the pilot burner ignites with an even blue flame about 1.5” to 2” tall.
3) The secondary solenoid on the main gas valve makes contact and the main burners ignite with faltering flames.
4) The secondary solenoid on the main gas valve breaks contact and the main burners go out.
5) The secondary solenoid on the main gas valve makes contact again and the main burners ignite with faltering flames. This cycle goes on for a few minutes as the burner box gets warm. (The igniter/lockout control never stops sparking during this sequence of events.)
6) Once the burner box is fully warmed the main blower comes on and the furnace runs up to set-point.
7) Rusty water is draining out of a black tray below the burner box and into the exterior of the furnace parts inside the front cover and dripping into the lower chamber where the main blower is located.

I shut of the mains power, checked the condensate trap and it was full of rusty water. I removed it and flushed it out with clean water. There appeared to be no moving parts in the trap: no diaphragm valve, no check valve, nothing. NOTE: all ports on the trap flow air/water in any direction – in or out of any port. I don't know if this is normal or not as I cannot locate any info on proper trap operation. I replaced the trap, turned on the mains power and restarted the system.

1) The draft inducer motor/blower turns on but the igniter/lockout does NOT initiate the sparking sequence.
2) The 5-minute cycle times out and the draft inducer motor/blower turns off. End of cycle.
3) No restart unless the mains power is cycled off then on.
4) The draft inducer motor/blower turns on and the 5-minute cycle times out and the draft inducer motor/blower turns off. End of cycle.

So, to sum: Once I cleaned the trap the igniter no longer starts the sparking sequence.
No pilot ignition and no ignition of main burners.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: HVAC
Expert:  Tom replied 3 years ago.

Tom :

Hi, sorry you're having trouble...

Tom :

Did you prime the trap with water when you re-installed it?

Tom :

The trap should blow through either direction....that's ok...basically it's like the P trap under your kitchen sink.... the water seal in the trap keeps exhaust gas from exiting within your house...

Tom :

Without the water seal in the trap, the air proving switch may not be seeing enough pressure to allow it to make and start the ignition sequence.

Customer :

Thank You Tom,

Customer :

No I did not prime the trap with water. How much is appropriate and into which port should I fill the trap?

Tom :

I don't have a pic of your exact trap...(sorry)...rather than remove it from your furnace..I would try disconnecting one of the hoses (maybe off of the flue collector box)..and pouring a cup or so of water in it...You can't put too much in...the excess will just run out to the drain.

Customer :

Tom,

Customer :

Filled as directed through the flue side port till it came out the dump side. Retired the power with no change. The draft fan comes on but no spark from the igniter and no solenoids fire on the gas valve.

Tom :

Have you tried blowing out the rubber tube connected to the air pressure switch? It sounds like something is clogged not allowing the pressure switch to make..

Customer :

Will do...back shortly...

Tom :

Ok...

Customer :

Sorry for the delay... All tubes from the draft pressure switch are clear and flowing freely. Still no sparking from the igniter and no solenoids on the gas valve.

Tom :

The draft inducer is running?

Tom :

Do you own a volt meter?

Tom :

Sorry we couldn't get this worked out... I have to leave. I'm going to opt out and see if another tech will pick this up where we left off.... He will be able to read our conversation so you won't have to repeat everything. Thanks! Tom

Customer :

You bet! I have 24AC on the two orange wires: 1) from main blower control board and )2 from the draft pressure switch board. No output from igniter on the white, brown, or blue wires to the gas valve.

Customer :

I have to leave also to go to a funeral service in 20 mins....back at you later

Tom :

Ok..just reply back and someone will pick this up..

Customer :

Back from the funeral...if you are available we can go over some more options.

JustAnswer in the News:

 
 
 
Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.
 
 
 

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • You did one super job of explaining to me everything there is to know about this fridge. I'm looking forward to asking you questions in the future. Jimmy Bagley, IA
< Last | Next >
  • You did one super job of explaining to me everything there is to know about this fridge. I'm looking forward to asking you questions in the future. Jimmy Bagley, IA
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C. Freshfield, Liverpool, UK
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex Los Angeles, CA
  • Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult. GP Hesperia, CA
  • I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion. Justin Kernersville, NC
  • Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around. Esther Woodstock, NY
  • Thank you so much for taking your time and knowledge to support my concerns. Not only did you answer my questions, you even took it a step further with replying with more pertinent information I needed to know. Robin Elkton, Maryland
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • gotoman for ac

    HVAC Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    4657
    51 years of experience install design and repair of all makes and models of AC
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/SE/ServiceTechRus/2012-6-7_2119_056.64x64.JPG gotoman for ac's Avatar

    gotoman for ac

    HVAC Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    4657
    51 years of experience install design and repair of all makes and models of AC
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/AL/alumalite/2012-5-10_234018_shutterstock506249951forJA500.64x64.jpg Phil's Avatar

    Phil

    Mechanical Engineer

    Satisfied Customers:

    3888
    Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/skibum0101/2008-12-16_015819_just_answer.jpg Rick Mather's Avatar

    Rick Mather

    HVAC Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    3132
    35 years experience, HVAC
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/RY/Rygis20/2011-5-7_3143_DSC5324.64x64.JPG Matthew's Avatar

    Matthew

    HVAC Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1994
    14 years experience in the HVAC field of service, installation, Manual J & D calculations
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/KE/kentguidry/2011-9-26_214316_0059.64x64.jpg Kenton Guidry's Avatar

    Kenton Guidry

    HVAC Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    962
    12 years install/service experience.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/solarman1947/2009-12-13_223915_phpkKBcXq_c2PM.jpg Rick Ridley's Avatar

    Rick Ridley

    UK Heating Engineer

    Satisfied Customers:

    871
    Retired But have had 30 years on the tools, Ex CORGI
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/Ironheadfan/2009-12-18_222416_pump_005.jpg Tom's Avatar

    Tom

    HVAC Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    770
    16+yrs HVAC/R service. Residential Commerical Industrial