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Billy
Billy, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 19506
Experience:  Endorsed for unlimited heating, cooling, oil burners, boilers, refrigeration, hydronics
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I have a 20 year old Lennox propane gas furnace in good shape,

Customer Question

I have a 20 year old Lennox propane gas furnace in good shape, but I am having a problem that when they fill my tank or when it is really cold outside the furnace does not want to start correctly.

The pilot light lights fine and after a few seconds the furnace gas solenoid starts clicking and opens and the burners light. But only for a few seconds and then there is another click and the burners go off. This repeats its self 2-3-4-or 5 times, sometimes clicking many times and very fast before lighting and staying on. Sometimes it does not work at all and the pilot light goes out and I have to reset the thermostat and start the process again.
What do you think is the problem?
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: HVAC
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

Hello, This is the old G60 ignition control from Johnson Controls.

The chattering can be from a couple things..

 

Flame sensor in the pilot (metal rod) is not sensing the flame....fix is to use steel wool and clean sensor.

 

Bad ignition control - here is where the control is getting the flame signal but doesn't know it. = Replace control

 

Bad gas valve - The reason the flame sensor doesnt;t sense flame is because it drops out due to a bad gas valve.

 

The most common failures are dirty flame sensor and then ignition control.

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Flame sensor in the pilot (metal rod) is not sensing the flame....fix is to use steel wool and clean sensor. I replaced the pilot 1st

 

Bad gas valve - The reason the flame sensor doesnt;t sense flame is because it drops out due to a bad gas valve. I replaced the entire gas valve 2nd

 

Bad ignition control - here is where the control is getting the flame signal but doesn't know it. = Replace control This I have not done. Will this cause the chattering? Where is this control located and what should it cost more or less

 

Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

When you replaced the pilot did you replace the sensor?

 

And yes..the control will cause a rapid chatter.

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

When you replaced the pilot did you replace the sensor? I replaced the thing that connects to the gas line and has 2 wires to reconnect. Was that the sensor?

Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

It has a white ceramic base and attach's to the sense terminal on the control

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes I replaced it when I replaced the pilot..... So I guess the only thing left is the ignition control where is it located? and can it be cleaned or should it be replaced.
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

If you have the furnace model number I can be more specific...but most of these were mounted on top of the gas valve.

 

 

Billy, HVAC Technician
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 19506
Experience: Endorsed for unlimited heating, cooling, oil burners, boilers, refrigeration, hydronics
Billy and 5 other HVAC Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I sent you pictures did you recieve them
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

I see no pictures or attachments. Do you have the furnace model number?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
The only thing on top of the gas val is black termainal with a lot of wires coming out of it...is this the ignition control ?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Your Going to kill me the furnace is carrier not lennox can you still help,,, if not I will ok your payment. Sorry for taking so much of your time, Thank You

Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

Not a problem...I am just as familiar with Carrier. Does this furnace have a pilot light with 3 wires...green, yellow and white?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

it lights when it starts to spark so it must be elec. ignition and it is either on or off its not like my hot water heater where the pilot is always lite

Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

Thanks....

 

if this is the electronic 3 wire pilot then your odds are the pilot is bad...when you replaced the gas valve did it have 5 terminals on top?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes it has 3 wires from the pilot and the termial block on top is numbered 1,2,3,4,5, But I have replaced the pilot, where dose the signal go from the pilot?
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

does the pilot go out when chattering or just main

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Just the main and the pilot stays on and then the main comes on and back and forth and when the main refuses to light after about 4 or 5 time the pilot gos off and then I have to flip the furnace switch off and on a few times and then the pilot comes back on and the process repeates it self then finnally the main lights (SOMETIMES)
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

sorry for delay....

 

With pilot lit, use a short wire or jumper and connect terminals 1 and 5 on the gas valve...terminal 5 gets power to open pilot gas.....the pilot gets power at the same time...the 24v is sitting at the pilot waiting for the warp switch to heat and make....once the switch warps it sends power to terminal 1 for main gas....by jumping 1 to 5 we are bypassing the pilot assembly and strictly are testing gas valve and circuit board.

 

Try this test and tell me if the chatter persist. NOTE- this is just for a test to not permanently bypass 1 to 5 as this circumvents the safety

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Ok, If it holds after the jumper whats that mean
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

well the pilot doesnt drop so we know we have a steady 24 v to the terminal 5....by taking a known 24v and jumping to 1 we supply a steady 24 for main....if it still chatters we then look at wire connections on the common side back to and including the circuit board...

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Ok Thank You, XXXXX XXXXX
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

If you need any follow up let me know....I hate to lose so keep in touch.

 

Just return to this same thread. I thank you!

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
One last thing I just thought of...... this happens when its very cold out side and/or right after they fill the tank ?????
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

Do you have a "LP Low Pressure Switch" mounted on valve or before valve in gas line?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
It must be in the valve.... there is nothing between the outside regulator (thats new) and the valve
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

see here and tell me if the pressure switch shown is attached to the valve.

http://johnstonesupply9.com/TechDocs/Amana/Amana%20Accessorie%20Specs-Manuals/LPLP%20IO%20MANUAL.pdf

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

No there is nothing like this anywhere.... when I bought the new valve I them it was for propane also the orface was different on the pilot

...Is there an ajustment on the valve body that would raise the pressure?

 

The Propane Low Pressure

(LPLP) Kit monitors the gas line pressure with a pressure switch and disables the unit gas valve if the line pressure

drops below acceptable levels.

P

Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

Yes there it is...one for pilot....smaller cap about the size of a pea...and a main gas adj ..larger cap about the size of a dime.

 

By jumping those terminals we discussed will rule out if there is a gas issue with pilot.

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

It still is not working..COULD IT BE THE LOCK OUT TIMER ...MODEL 990-141-1

HSC1

Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

Did you jump Terminal 1 to terminal 5 when pilot was lit?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
No I did not . Will that give me the answer? I did remove the lock-out timer and it has been smoked on the the back termails
Expert:  Billy replied 3 years ago.

 

The jumping of terminal 1 to 5 will verify if pilot is culprit...Of course with the new finding of the lock out timer this can change things. Being LP you must keep a lockout control in the circuit....but for testing purposes, you could bypass the lockout timer and then observe operation and if needed jump the terminals as discussed.

 

 

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