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Phil
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: HVAC
Satisfied Customers: 7596
Experience:  Retired HVAC/ Electrical & Boiler contractor. Industrial
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Looking @ a Viessmann vs. a Quietside boiler. Quiestside is

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Looking @ a Viessmann vs. a Quietside boiler. Quiestside is considerably cheaper...any experience with manufacturer of reputation of boiler?
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Phil :

Hi,This is risky business in the blind, not responsible for damages on your end. Click 'accept' when satisfied.. or we can get another expert.

Phil :

The Quietside boiler is a light weight unit, thin wall heat exchanger and a bad reputation as a very poor quality unit. There are some others of similar stripe on the market also. Viessmann is an old line heavily builit boiler that will last a normal life span.

Phil :

Weil McLain is also a good boiler, Peerless is not so bad either.

JACUSTOMER-927g6od9- :

Looking @ the Viessman 100 with 95.2 AFUE with a wall mount...so are we talking about the same thing? This boiler looks rather small as well. I take it Viessman is the "better name" but you are probably right about the Quietside from what I can see on the internet as well. I have an average sized house...I know it is difficult but any guesses to how much gas I may save a year? I pay about $1,400.00 annually on gas heat. I take it, I will save 15% + a month based on my original iron cast boiler based on the fact it is probably running @ 79-80 AFUE...maybe more money? I am trying to justify in my head whether to go green and spend the additional 3k on a 90+ boiler but how to get the savings alone on the 1.5k federal tax credit and 15% gas heat savings? I think the gas heat savings could be more...any insight on that matter would be helpful...Thanks!

Phil :

Hello again... the newer, high efficiency boilers are of necessity much more complex than the slightly lower efficiency boilers.. and that produces a dramatically higher failure rate due to electronics failures in the boilers.. some of those parts costing $400 or more, and very difficult to diagnose.

Phil :

Many times the fuel saved by use of these systems if way more than totally offset by the much higher failure rate, and shorter life span of the unit requiring earlier replacement.

Phil :

Personally I preffer the stand alone space heat and stand alone domestic water heaters.. those can be very simply. low cost, durable and easy to replace...but their sales brochures are not nearly as glossy.

JACUSTOMER-927g6od9- :

As I expected, there are strong pros and cons of both conventional vs. high efficient boilers...makes shopping rather difficult...is indirect water heater different from conventional water heater?

Phil :

Regarding the pro's and cons... an indirect water heater for domestic water uses a heat exchanger off of the primary space heating direct fire on tubes for space heat.... if I may. I would like to address the larger issues however.

JACUSTOMER-927g6od9- :

Okay...sorry about that.

Phil :

Those salesmen types with no engineering background will promote whatever it is they sell.. the service people will generally advise you to buy what gives the least trouble. so its not an equal balance of pro's and cons.

Phil :

Further experienced old timers in the business will advise you from that base of experience.. but the less experienced, lets say a 20 something's genuine high school graduate selling appliances can only advise on what he has read in the sales brochures.

Phil :

The basics are that light weight equipment never, ever lasts a long as the heavyier built equipment.

Phil :

If you want the best quality look for a huge difference in total weight, non corrodable heat exchangers, cupro nickel or stainless steel (very uncommon) and dead simply controls.

JACUSTOMER-927g6od9- :

I know...that is why the whole process and package is a little overwhelming...maybe the techology is not quite there on the high efficent boilers yet...

Phil :

its not a technology issue..its a marketing issue, what sells... cheap sells.

Phil :

We are moving to a disposable appliance world fast.. if they are dirt cheap, such as the LG brand, its not such a bad idea.

Phil :

If not cheap those are not a bargain.

Phil :

For an engineer this is not difficult...for a home owner used to making decisions based on advertizing it can be difficult

Phil :

Rheem makes a cupro nickel, stainless steel tank water heater, that can be adapted to use for space heating. $2,500 from Grainger Industrial supply.. it has 4 parts, and 8 wires in its control system. (some others have dozens, with dozens of failure prone gang connectors)

Phil :

Triangle corp also makes a simple water heater, with cupro nickel heat exchanger I believe.

JACUSTOMER-927g6od9- :

The first heating guy...very experianced told me to leave my iron cast boiler alone(25 years old)...and just have it serviced...LOL

Phil :

Those selling heavy boilers such as some models of the Weil-McLain my scoff at using what is generally called a water heater for space heating.. but its done and Rheem in this case says its common..and by the way those are 96% efficient.

Phil :

You should take his advice... it will still be running just fine when you have gone through 3 or 4 of this new cheaper breed.

Phil :

some of these newer ones, are such piles of trash it makes ones eyes water..

JACUSTOMER-927g6od9- :

Any recommendations at all for the 90+ energy efficent burners? I may just remain "as is" for now after this research.

Phil :

The 20 pin gang connector kept falling out of the electronics control module with one boiler I worked on.. no fix available.. pin insertion was all of a 1/16" .. 3 times that is standard. they bought the cheapest parts they could.

Phil :

I would keep your old heavy cast iron system.. if you want to save money use matress warmers, set the stat back at night, and insulate.

Phil :

Rheem water heaters use the only 90% efficient burners I like, they are simple, but also used in a few other mfgrs product line.

Phil :

One option would be to fit a 100,000 btu Rheem water heater into the existing boiler circuit.. and only run the Rheem water heater.. using the old boiler only when it gets drastically cold out side.

JACUSTOMER-927g6od9- :

I was trying to utilize the federal tax credit but it seems silly to spend money for the sake of spending money...

Phil :

100,000 btu's is enough to heat most most homes, 98% of the time to 72F.

Phil :

The federal tax credit is OK if you are buying a viable and necessary upgrade,

Phil :

I would be inclined to use it on double insulated windows, etc.

Phil :

The tax credits brought out an army of fast talkers, scammers and idiots.

Phil :

You might be able to get a rebate on installing the Rheem unit as discussed, because it would do about 99% of your heating from then on, and you would still have the old boiler in place...talk to the experienced guy you had out on that,

Phil :

I will be back in a few hours.

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