does flax oil cause dark markings on horses coat?
Pet's Gender: Female
Name of Horse: daisy aged 44
i dabbed on flax oil to try to soothe her skin... now she has ugly dark patches - disaster. I hardly recognise her. Did shampoo her but there was no change.
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Flax oil is useful in improving skin and coat health when given orally, due to the omega acid content.When used topically, it will stain the skin and hair, but the effect will not last beyond the next shedding cycle.DrMike
20 years experience in private practice, 2 years teaching at undergraduate and graduate level.
thank you so much! what a relief. I 'm also using it to promote joint health. she loves it and i hope it will help her increase weight. she was a flea bitten grey but is now completely white. she s very beautiful a strong character and was a lead mare of 42 in her previous home. she s been part of a much smaller crew with me and at times just with one other though generally more. just now she s running with a bunch of wild ponies, new mares who have just turned up so she s having to share her stallion who she s been acquainted with for less than a year. I love observing her operating and in a group cutting out followers for herself. in this situation after initial hostility she s playing the part of a co-operative female herd member and is getting to know the other three mares that her champion has rounded up and stolen from an underling. so another new phase for her. all very exciting! thank you again for your advice. the hair went black immediately but i just assumed it would come off. it does so spoil her beauty... i m very glad its only temp. so the change might be next spring? or sooner perhaps? have a good eve. its the middle of the night here. what about where you are?
Quarter to eleven here.It's refreshing to hear someone actually spends time observing herd dynamics like you do. Please keep your observational skills as sharp as they are.Don't expect a color change before next spring.DrMike
was that evening? from the times stated it looks as tho we re on similiar time frames or were you am?anyway i just looked at your profile and note your connections with wisconsin. famous area. i acutely remember a group situation with a middle aged woman enquiring, of those assembled, in her unique and strong american accent... "is there anyone here from wisconsin?" it was one of those announcements that stay with you like a golden song that you repeat when in a certain mood. the question comes to mind every so often because of the accent and the opportunity to practise such a striking phrase with good humour.thanks so much for your very kind words and i m wondering do the purina workshops touch on herd mechanism? are they a feed company? i was lucky enough to attend a workshop here with an american cowboy who trained with oh no i ve forgotten his name but he s one of your brilliant forbears who was part of a consciousness that led several to 'visit' with each other and to exchange experiences as well as to teach. lot of emphasis on controlling the feet.. and one foot at a time. i connected well with him because of loving watching daisy manoevering within the spontaneous group we had randomly assembled... for a three day course. some horses not speaking to each other some fighting and aggressively jockeying for position others pushed to the side lines and of course the star role types prancing and parading but not necessarily pulling! human members of the group were concerned for me that dazz (thats daisy) was being side lined and was n t playing the lead role that was expected. i knew differently and waited and watched whilst she worked on first one young gelding who was a bit lost and inexperienced she first cut him out of the group and encouraged him to follow her... did that running around thing and got him behind her. once he was grazing within her ambit and under her control she started to work on the next. ok she only had two followers by the end of the weekend but the brut force rulers were nt holding their membership and sub divisions kept arising. Fascinating. so glad the subject appeals to you. rare for a vet, tho i'm lucky enough to have one who s into the barefoot way of going when appropriate.well i won t expect any changes then until next spring but i'm going to be in trouble with my human friends for tampering with her appearance!my friend has just asked me if i 'm talking lice with you! well daisy did lose a lot of weight after a spot of laminitis and having to go onto sparse grazing. am still working thro the prob. have to go now but will leave you with the request for advice on best treatment for lice and what to do about the wild herd members for whom i m now feeling responsible. my vet does n't do darting he tells me so there s an obstacle! speak soon best wishes and good night!
i had to treat daisy for lice. i used powder and will have to retreat. meantime new herd members have turned up and i still have n t been able to treat the stallion. oral ivermectin was suggested but may not be available in uk. my own vet has an objection to it which he has n t clarified. i m giving pero, the wild stallion, garlic and a homeopathic treatment for chorioptic mange alternately in case too strong for the homeopathy (though i ve misplaced the bottle temporarily after 4 or 5 applications to food) which the local foxes may have and might have passed to daisy when she was in poor condition having lost weight . that s now resolved and its poss the stallion was unaffected as he was always looking good... being unrugged i could see his condition. recent intense rain meant i kept daisy rugged and all went wrong ... do you have any ideas for protecting the herd and treating the stallion? in the wild how do they cope with lice outbreaks? dazz no longer itching. hope i got them all and did treat with something thats supposed to have killed the eggs but will treat with a shampoo on wed when due again. can i hope for the best with the stallion and the newcomers?
Ivermectin doesn't work as well for horse lice as it does for cattle lice. My preference is for pyrethrin/permethrin/etc products, and wipes are better than powders. All individuals in the group need to be treated or they just keep sharing back and forth. Repeat in two weeks to kill newly hatched lice.DrMike
thank you. well yes two weeks will be up on wed for dazz and i ve got a shampoo with pyrethrin in which accords with your recommendation. i used a powder in first round following on from an oil lavender t tree and neem concoction which i made up. i agree i should treat them all and would like to but how to catch them? Daisy was the harbourer due to rugging and the new ones came after i treated dazz so it all depends on whether the stallion was affected. he looked ok. but he ll be passing on to the other mares if he was affected. for this reason i'm looking for an oral prep. is there anything? although not ideal if ivermectin for cattle offers some hope can it be ordered from the US?
Ivermectin for equine lice is till a poor option compared to it's effect on cattle lice. I once had a herd of several hundred neglected horses that we ran through a series of cattle pannels and poured on a pyrethrin based product (can't recall the name, it may no longer be in production as this was ~20 years ago, but there must be newer-better evolutions thereof).No good oral products, again, ivermectin does a poor job of smacking horse lice regardless of route of administration.Another thought.... there are "rubbing wheels" that can be impregnated with pyrethrins... used primarily for cattle, but itchy horses would probably use them just as well???Not seen it done, but perhaps worth a try?DrMike
oh dear. am worried. think these parasites are coming from the abundant foxes. it may be that all i can do is to keep shampooing my mare every 2 weeks?
Minimal (if any) chance of that, as lice are so species-specific. The two species of equine lice even have preferences on where they each lay eggs on the horse.Lice also survive very poorly in the environment, and require direct contact to transmit.DrMike
thanks for quick response. ok so foxes not relevant. did read very good article on the two types of lice. biting and sucking. dazz may have had the biting as her back and shoulders most affected. poss easiest to treat but her forehead also had something. also holes one on the top of her rump. habroedema or something makes holes. is that an internal worm or a fly? poss had as well?
Habronema larvae create large welts with a breathing hole in the center.Good summary of different lice species and the favorite hosts is at:http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/71900.htm&word=liceDrMike
not habrodema from other search but i wormed her in case. there s a spray/liquid i m looking into. the other horses are nt mine. are there grounds to treat someone elses horses in certain instances?
Only with permission.The pyrethroid preparations are very safe, but some horses can have reactions (allergic sensitivity) to the other components in the spray/liquid.Getting permission and treating everyone twice should eliminate the preblem as long as there is not further traffic of new herd members in and out.DrMike
the others are wild. wondering if i were to involve the rspca whether some assistance could be obtained. this is a welfare issue. the herd are growing exponentially and there is not enough food in winter. almost at state of needing a cull. out of the question of course but we used to round them up and geld the colts. that s not happening anymore. things just being left. the kindness of the public keeps them going. the lice thing prob happens annually but is not being addressed. the principle peoplenow deny ownership...except when theres a fatality on the road then the animal was definitely one of theirs ...for the compensation! oh dear i need help with this its too much for me, need to think of a strategy.
meanwhile daisy is so much better. ITS WONDERFUL. she came bounding over full of life and after a feed and a bit of a run the youngsters fell in behind her. she s back in control of others and doing her thing. she was in with a group who did n't understand horse and did n't follow her. she was so hurt. but she s back in charge... (i know you ll forgive this enthusiastic aside!) i m delighted. thank you for your interest.
thank you also for having taken on those neglected animals you should write about it. maybe an article? i would like to read such a piece.
i m minded myself to try to record something. maybe a film about what they get up to at night and where they hide. sometimes daisy just does n't come even for food. i'm curious about their activities.
i am however worried about the current situation and how to deal with it. i do agree they all need double or even triple treatments.
This certainly is a unique situation.Your statement - "the others are wild. wondering if i were to involve the rspca whether some assistance could be obtained. this is a welfare issue. the herd are growing exponentially and there is not enough food in winter. almost at state of needing a cull" is telling, and some form of intervention is needed.I have no experience with the RSPCA, but it can't hurt to at least get the ball rolling. On this side of the pond, the ASPCA is a poor sister to the HSUS, and neither use their vast funds to the benefit of animals in general, much less horses (can you tell you've touched a nerve?).I'd also contact the British Equine Veterinary Association ( http://www.beva.org.uk/home ), or even the American version, which includes thousands of international members (aaep.org).People turning their backs is not unique to the UK. Just last week I was called to sedate a "WILD stallion" that was loose in one of the area National Forests. Turns out he had been dumped in 661,000 acres to fend for himself. I took my wife along (a professional horse transporter), and she had him in the Sheriff's trailer in less than 10 minutes.DrMike
thank you yes. i will try to find some support in dealing with this.i really appreciate the contact details. there may be some advice on strategy. i hear you double time re animal welfare orgs...lets not get started on that one! i really appreciate your assertions and compassionate approach. you and your wife sound like an amazing and brilliant team.in the meantime i believe i have effectively treated daisy's lice issue. because of very wet and windy weather i ve put her back in a light rug but this seemed to cause the problem last time so i want to minimise its use (tho she has been literally shivering - its a very difficult balance but her condition (weight-wise) has so vastly improved i ve now got to be mindful she does n'tget laminitis again.. keeping her unrugged was my vets sggestion for limiting weight and a good one ie going for all things natural just she s slightly aged.. tho you would n't know it) will know if there is still a problem in due course i suppose ie if she transferred anything to the others as the itching will re-occur. think thats the best i can do. there s no evidence of the others being infested. it maybe they exist with this as a background thing which worsens then subsides but due to dazz s rugging she became a harbourer. do you agree to not rugging and would you be able to watch a horse shiver? it is natural and she seems to be havng a blast also less interested in my food cos of the grass. . .
My wife calls me heartless, as her outlook would call for stalls and blankets for all.But ours go "au natural" all year.Shivering is God's invention for heat generation. My wife's Arabian (a youthful 19 year old) shivers at the slightest excuse, but is the last one to seek shelter (we have several in each pasture) even when it's -25F and blowing hard. Her two warmbloods are even tougher. We have stalls, but they all seem to like to come in, eat, roll in the fresh shavings, and then become impatient to get back outside.The biggest downside to banketing (rugging) in Daisy's case is it creates an artificially friendly environment for lice.DrMike
brilliant and there we are then rug off and i m having a holiday! thank you x
,hello... hope all well with you. i did n't go away after all but pleased to say no evidence of further louse infestation on daisy nor do the others seem to have been affected. Only worry has been a roughness on her nose a bit like a st john worts reaction with a scaly inflammation in sunlight ... I ve been treating it with sudacrem - dark tonight so could n't see but maybe its better. Perhaps a reaction to the ferns or other vegetation. Everything new here and so adjusting but we re working through the issues as they arise. It would be nice if there were n't anymore! if there s still a prob tomo I'll send a pic.
The scabby nose issue is usually due to photosensitization like St. John's Wort, but can also be from direct contact irritation (buttercups, cedar shavings, etc).Glad to hear the lice are on the run.DrMike
Another thought... I'm not sure what's in sudacrem, but creams with aloe and vitamin E, and lanolin seem to help these crusty noses quite a bit.DrMike
its a zinc based white cream ... a good barrier...very like your nappy rash cream which i found was amazing when in florida with my then baby daughter. can you remind me of the name - it really worked! As a barrier it seems to be a sun block by way of incidental help tho not its purpose. Yes aloe good suggestion thanks and vit e ... i ve got an oil based version for scarring but might that not boil the nose in sun.. not that we have any sun at mo... miserable rain rain rain!
no not that .. but don t worry not important just a bit sentimental...it was your cheapest nappy rash product from your economy store like our woolworths...it really worked due to zinc element i think but was very heavy and water repellant it stayed piled on like a snow cream!
yes buttercups that a poss too.. plus fern? Stallion has it too; not showing on the new mares so maybe something that builds up
That's the only brand that came to mind... fortunately kids and now grandkids have been relatively rash-free.Fern toxicity can build up, but will present with neurologic symptoms.DrMike
is oil ok with vit e and other stuff benign I think like lemon grass its to reduce scar tissue. zinc and castor oil was what we used to use in GB but sudadrem has eclipsed it and i think the recipe came from you over the pond. would you possibly consider asking your wife if she or any other mothers from nearly 20 years ago know what i'm on about ...this is going to bug me now! does desitin have another name perhaps?
Daisy seems ok! No worse. Am keeping up with creams. Read that fern tox interfers with B6 absorption but am giving her vitamins. She seems calm and well. I got "told off" for rating you too many times but i thought you'd like to know progress tho apols in advance for no more gold stars!
Thanks for the update. I don't really care a whit about ratings..... my only negative ones came from people that didn't reply to my requests for more information, or failed to provide follow-up questions of their own.The neuro symptoms are predominantly ataxia. It's caused by creating a thiamin (B1) deficiency. An excellent summary can be found at - http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/09-049.pdfNo luck with alternative diaper rash treatment names. None of the others I've asked about (like A&D) have zinc oxide.DrMike
ooooh thankyou... having to resist the urge to slam onthe excellent button! But you have my greatest appreciation. Thankyou. You're like a friend. Very kind. Is there an appraisal column i can complete maybe? Anyway I will check out that link. I have an idea the risk is whilst the fronds are in an active stage of reproduction in lifecycle..something rubs off?
tom dorrance..just remembered - the hoof control guy. one of the early compassionate cowboys from usa who had such a big influence on horse training. i suppose he also influenced monte roberts - who came over here to meet our queen to help promote new ways of thinking in uk.
ragwort is the latest thing i ll have to deal with. in my own place i used to spend most of the summer and autumn just pulling it up but they never tried to eat it.
the fern allergy has passed that article was very helpful thanks. i did give her extra vits and bread with added thiamine.