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Amedee
Amedee, Former ASE Master Technician
Category: Honda
Satisfied Customers: 24424
Experience:  ASE certified tech advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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I have 2004 Honda Crv and had no crank no start problem. So

Customer Question

Hi. I have 2004 Honda Crv and had no crank no start problem. So got starter motor replaced and it has been running for 2 days and then had another problem. It makes high pitched noise and didn't start engine when I tried start it. I thought something wrong with starter cut off relay and pulled it out and then put it back on to check it out. Then I try to start. Nothing happened. No crank no start. No sounds except fuel pump. I replaced starter again. But still no start. I replaced ignition switch but no use. I don't know what to do. Please help.
Submitted: 2 months ago.
Category: Honda
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Hello and welcome!

My name isCustomerand I can assist you with your question.

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Have you checked for power going to the starter motor? Do you have a wiring diagram for the starting circuit?

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Are you looking for possible causes or would you like me to walk you through this diagnoses?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
please
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
No I haven't checked yet
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I don't have a diagram
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Ok, that would be the next thing to check. If there is no power going to the starter, then we check the inputs to the starter relay. It could be missing power or a ground coming from the transmission range switch. Here is a wiring diagram.

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

I am glad I can help!

It has been a pleasure working with you. Please dont forget to honor your good faith deposit by rating my answer as "Excellent Service" for assisting you today.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
How do I check the wire? I've never done this before
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

You can use a test light or a voltmeter.

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Does that answer your question?

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Or is there anything else I can clear up?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
how do I test it with voltmeter? Test connection part between wire and starter?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Turn your meter to the 20 volt DC scale. Touch the black lead to battery negative and the read lead to the small terminal at the starter. Have an assistant turn the key to the CRANK position while you watch the reading on your voltmeter. If there is a signal, it will read battery voltage.

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

DC voltage is on the left side of the meter and AC voltage is on the right. You want to use the DC scale.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I am going to buy a voltmeter and then test it.
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Sounds good!!!

I am glad I can help!

It has been a pleasure working with you. Please dont forget to honor your good faith deposit by rating my answer as "Excellent Service" for assisting you today.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Hi I am back. Finally I bought one and trying to test it.
1. I put black lead on negative battery post and put red on post of starter. As soon as I touch it with the lead the meter show 12.25. No key turned
2. I put black lead on negative battery post and put red on the end of the wire that go to the solenoid it reads 0 meter and then turned the key to crank position it reads 0.13.
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
what is the problem?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Hello and good morning! This means the starter is not getting a signal. Try powering the small wire at the starter and see if the engine starts up. The key will need to be in the CRANK position.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Right now I took manifold out to get to starter. And I connect the power directly to the solenoid from the battery then starter spins but I don't think the teeth extend to the engine to crank
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Ok, thank you for that information. Provided the starter is getting correct battery voltage at the flywheel is not damaged, this is a bad starter motor.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
you mean the first problem is that the starter solenoid is not getting power
And the 2nd problem is a bad starter
So I have to find out why solenoid is not getting power and also need to replace the starter. Right?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Based on what your tell me.. yes.. that is correct. If you supply power to the starter motor, it should crank the engine. However, yours is not..

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I just took the starter to Autozone to test it. It is working fine. Nothing wrong with the starter. I have already told you I replaced the starter. It is new starter
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Now what should I check to find out what is wrong?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Hello!

Check the starter relay circuit like we talked about.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I think relay is good. There are 2 more same relay as starter relay on the same board. I switched them out to see if it is bad. But nothing happened
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

I did not say to check the relay. Again, you need to check the RELAY CIRCUIT

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
You mean the cable to go to the starter?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

This was one of my first replies posted on 10 Sept 2016, 8:42 PM

If there is no power going to the starter, then we check the inputs to the starter relay. It could be missing power or a ground coming from the transmission range switch.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
How do I check to find it out?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

You can use a test light or a voltmeter.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I used voltmeter to check. I put red lead on the end of the cable to the solenoid and put black on battery negative post. It reads only 0.13 when I turned the key to crank position. Now I know solenoid is not getting power. Then where should I check to find out why solenoid is not getting power? Where should I check with voltmeter ?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

The inputs to the starter relay need to be checked next.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
What do u mean? So I need to check under dash board where the relay circuit box is at?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

We really need to talk on the phone

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I wish I could but I have hearing difficulty.
I prefer conversation in writing
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

NO problem. You need to check the relay inputs using a voltmeter to see what the relay is missing preventing it from working.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I have 4 pin starter relay. So take out the relay and then put voltmeter probes into the circuit? To see if there is current?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Thats correct

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I tested between relay input and solenoid connection. There is no current. I tested other relay input(same kind of relay as starter relay) right next to starter relay and it has current.
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

So one terminal has power going into it with the key in the CRANK position? Is that correct?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Oh so do I need to turn the key to crank position to test it?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Thats correct. Also, dont forget to check the ground signal into the relay!

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I just did it. There is current between starter relay and ground (I used negative battery post connection)
But there is no current between ground and relay input next to starter relay input which has current to solenoid
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.
The green wire going into the relay is ground or should be ground with the transmission in park or neutral
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.
The power coming into the starter relay comes from the ignition switch
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
how I tested it above was wrong
?
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Do I need to test between green wire going into relay input and different pin input?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

This is why we need to speak on the phone.

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Hello! It'sCustomerfrom just answer.

I am just checking in to see if you need any further assistance?

Let me know!

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I tested relay circuit but everything is fine. I just replaced neutral safety switch but nothing happened. What is the next thing to do?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Excellent! So tell me the inputs to the starter cut relay

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
What do you mean?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

You said you tested the relay circuit. So how did you do this and what were the results?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I didn't get the voltage amount. I just check if all the pin is OK. I used Audible ohm test. Sounds like all the pin inputs are OK. One thing I measured was starter solenoid on crank position. It is getting 0.18v or so on crank position.
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Ok, thank you for that information, Thats good that we tested for power at the starter.. but that only only a small portion of the starting circuit. There are three inputs going into the relay that need to be checked.. like I was explaining much earlier. So far, you have not done this test correctly. You dont check this using ohms.

You need to check VOLTAGE and ground going into the relay with the ignition switch in the CRANK position.

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

You would do this with the relay removed.. so your actually checking the female pins where the starter relay plug into.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
That is what I did. I checked through all the female pins with audible ohm function. They all beeps between female pins
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

So which ones have power and which ones have ground with the key in the CRANK position?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
OK here's the results. I just redid it to get the numbers. There are 4 pins. From the top to bottom.
Between 1 and 2: 11.96
1and 3: 11.96
1 and 4 : 10.77
2 and 3 : 0
2 and 4 : 0.08
3 and 4 : 0.08
Battery: 11.97v (drained as not getting charged)
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.
two pins are getting voltage. This is good. Now we just need to confirm that it is getting a ground from the range switch. You can still use a voltmeter to do this. Only hook up the red lead of your meter to battery positive and the black lead of your meter to the pin or terminal at the relay coming from the range switch. The voltmeter should display battery voltage if it's getting a good ground.
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
just disconnect the neutral safety switch and put black lead into the pin inputs come from NSS? With key on crank position?
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I just checked the voltage. I'm not sure if I did right. I disconnected the wire and neutral safety switch. There is female connection part on the end of wire and male pins on NSS. I put red probe on positive battery and black probe into female part at the end of wire.(should I hook up with male pin at NSS?)
Here is the result. It has 10 pins (2 rows, 5pins each row)
1st row
1st pin: 0.04
2 pin : 0
3 pin : 0.04
4 pin : 0.04
5 pin : 0.042nd row
1st pon: 11.98
2 : 0.05
3: 0.10
4: 0.03
5: 0.04
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Good morning. The light green wire going into the relay from the range switch or NSS should have GROUND on it with the transmission in park or nuetral.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
OK so let me clarify if it is right that I understand. For checking ground, I still need to check with starter relay circuit. Right? But this time red probe goes to positive battery post and black goes to one of the starter relay female inputs. Right? And check the voltage. Right?Please correct me if I am wrong
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Thats correct

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I tried to find light green wire but I can't because the circuit is covered by plastic case. I can't see it.
I checked voltage for all 4 pins.1st pin : 11.97
2 : 0.01
3: 0.01
4: 0.11In this case 1st one is ground?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

YES, that should be it.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
OK so relay circuit is fine. Then what should I do next?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Then we check for power at the starter.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
What do you mean check power at starter? Starter is getting power but solenoid is not
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Does the starter relay click when inserted into place and the key is turned to the CRANK position?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I don't think so. I hear clicks from somewhere else but I don't think it comes from stater relay.
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
But when I pull it out, it beeps
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Well, based on what you have told me, the relay is bad. It has all of the correct inputs, it just is simply not activating.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Actually, I did test like this. I put black probe of multimeter on negative battery post and put red probe into relay inputs. Tested all 4 inputs but no voltage with key turned in crank position.
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Relay circuit is getting ground but no power on crank position
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

You told me earlier that two pins have voltage on them with the key in the crank position.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I don't think I tested it correctly. I put both red and black probe into relay circuit inputs
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

The black lead goes on battery negative when doing this test.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Now I am understanding better
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
black lead goes to negative battery post and red goes to relay circuit inputs
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Correct

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
no voltage on this test, what do u think is the problem?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

This would be caused by a bad ignition switch provided the switch has power and the wiring between the switch and relay are good. If those check out, replace the ignition switch.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I have already replaced ignition switch. It is new
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Does the ignition switch have power going into it?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
How can I check?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

With your test light or voltmeter. The same tool you have been using to check for voltage. Black lead goes on battery ground. The red lead of your meter goes to the WHITE wire going into the ignition switch. IT SHOULD READ BATTERY VOLTAGE

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
It's getting voltage 11.98v
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Then check the black/yellow wire leaving the ignition switch for voltage with the key in the CRANK position. This wire should have voltage when CRANKING or with the key in the CRANK position.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
it has voltage 11.91v
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Ok, then the problem is between the ignition switch and the relay. There must be an open or a break in the wiring between the two. I would track it down, fix it or simply run a new wire and that will get you up and running!!!

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
OK I will track down to find bad connection then let us know if it works. Thnaks
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Your welcome!

I am glad I can help!

It has been a pleasure working with you. Please dont forget to honor your good faith deposit by rating my answer as "5 STAR SERVICE" for assisting you today.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
do you think only black/yellow wire is bad?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Based on what you have told me, yes, I do. Or the underdash fuse relay box itself is bad provided you have been testing on the right relay pins.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Do you know how to open dashboard?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

I could give you the R and R procedure, but you would need to start another question.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
OK I will try to open it . If I can't I will open another chat room. Thanks
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

We will need to close out this question first. Please rate my answer as 5 STAR SERVICE

Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

You should see the rating system towards the top of the page. Bonuses are appreciated!!

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I opened the dashboard and tried to track down black/yellow wire but it goes to the passenger side. But I found different wire toward to relay box. But they looks good to me. Is there any fuse between ignition switch and relay box?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Again, you can look at the diagram I sent you and see for yourself there is no fuse between the two. That is why I provided you the diagram.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I tested it between ignition switch and relay circuit. I used Audible ohms function on multimeter to check if the wire between ignition switch and relay circuit has a open or break. But it has good connection. The multimeter beeps when I turned the key on crank position. No beep if I released the key. What do you think?
Expert:  Amedee replied 2 months ago.

Good morning. I think this is going on 9 days since we started. I could have explained this over the phone in 15 minutes. I think I am going to leave this question open for other experts. Good luck!