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Honda-Man
Honda-Man, Honda Mechanic
Category: Honda
Satisfied Customers: 2888
Experience:  I have an Associates Degree in Automotive. 10 Years experience on all makes and models. 20 Years Honda only including factory training. Over 30 years total.
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I've got an intermitant problem of no ground pulse to my

Customer Question

Hello I've got an intermitant problem of no ground pulse to my fuel injector on my 1996 honda accord dlx coupe. Sometimes it runs perfectly but most of the time it won't start do to no ground pulse. Any ideas would be helpful? I did change the main relay, to the same effect.
JA: Does the engine turn over? How old is the battery?
Customer: yes
JA: Are you hoping to fix this yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: Yes, I changed the main relay and plugged in a new tps i have jumped power to my fuel pump. It will run with starting fluid, Andoccasionally it will just start up and run fine.
JA: Anything else you think the mechanic should know?
Customer: I just replaced the head and head gasket.
JA: OK. Got it. I'm sending you to a secure page on JustAnswer so you can place the $5 fully-refundable deposit now. While you're filling out that form, I'll tell the Honda Mechanic about your situation and then connect you two.
Submitted: 6 months ago.
Category: Honda
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

Thank you for taking time to ask your Honda question on JustAnswer. My name is ***** ***** online handle is Honda-Man I will be assisting you. I have over 21 years experience repairing strictly Honda vehicles.

Does the check engine light come on? Any codes? Did this start after the cylinder head work?

Thanks,

~Cliff

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Check engine light stays on it says o2 heater circuit faulty, its always been like that
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Where do the fuel injectors get their signal from. Also I just checked the ground pins 10 20 and 23, their good
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

OK, just needed to ask. The ECM grounds the injectors to control them. It needs a good input from the crank sensor and cylinder reference sensor before it will ground the injectors.

Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

I have seen them fail without a check engine light several times. Did this start after the head work?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
It started before the head work but was getting worse and worse, now most days it won't start.
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

Since it starts on starting fluid that rules out a spark, power or ground issue to the ECM. I can send you the instructions for testing the sensors? Also for replacing them. They are down by the timing belt crank gear behind the cover.

Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

Another thing to try is wiggle connectors while cranking it. Might be a loose terminal or 2?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I've tried wiggling the crank position sensor but where is the cylinder position sensor? can i test the cps from the top on the harness? Does the throttle position sensor have any thing to do with it?
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

The 2 sensors are down by the crank gear behind the timing cover. The connector is on the back side of the engine near where the top and bottom covers meet. The TPS should not have anything to do with injector control or timing.

Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

Location.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
how can i test the cps? Which is more likely the problem the cps or the icm
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

The ICM is the ignition module. If it were bad there would be no reaction with starting fluid. The 2 sensors are called CKP and TDC. One is for crank speed, engine speed, and injector control(CKP). The other is for cylinder #1 reference, injector control timing etc. Either one can do it. They come on the same harness as one part.

Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

They are easy to test but it will need to be not starting when tested.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
do you think I should go ahead and change that, and that should do it? Also the fuel pump doesn't presurize the system, except when it does start, any ideas on that, could it be the same sensor?
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

I would test them first. It's pretty easy and if they are not bad then I would hate to see you wast time and money. Best to test first. It is a likely suspect but nor 100%.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Is this what I need.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-ACCORD-1996-2001-CRANKSHAFT-POSITION-SENSOR-CRANK-37840-P0A-A01-/271940042731?fits=Year%3A1996%7CMake%3AHonda%7CModel%3AAccord&hash=item3f50e3bfeb:m:mzuwPAX54xS6n-eCWY_fj_A&vxp=mtr
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
How do i test them?
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

The fuel pump won't run without a engine rpm reference. The ECM controls the fuel pump relay ground. Yup that's it! I sent the instructions a few reply's ago. Unplug the sensor harness and use a ohmmeter to check the value. Compare the readings to the diagnosis instructions.

Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

If you need help along the way just come back and ask. I would appreciate a rating tonight, it won't close the question.

Thanks,

~Cliff

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Sorry about that I tried to do the sensor tests last night but it got to dark. Then i got to cleaning things up, it got pretty late i figured i'd do it today. Anyway 3 and 4 blink 1650 the go to open, 1 and 2 blink 1950 then go to open. Should they stay at the reading or is that normal.
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

The readings are OK. Did you do the next test(see attached info) to see if one of the 4 wires is grounded? Ground the black tester probe on a good engine ground like the cylinder head then touch the red test probe on each of the 4 male terminals. See if any of the 4 show continuity to ground. The all should read OL or open loop on you meter.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Yea no body ground and the connector pins read the about the same as the sensor harness wire
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

OK, I guess the sensors are fine. Good thing you tested them. Let me look over my info again for another solution.

Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

When it won't start what does the check engine light do compared to when it does start? Also is there power to the injectors? red/black wires?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
It always stays on i can clear it but it will come right back on
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 6 months ago.

Thanks, ***** ***** can help to know if it does not come on at all etc. Next is the sensor in the distributor housing. The CYP I have included the test for this sensor. It's similar to the other sensor test. I have seen worn out distributor bushings damage the sensor pickup assembly.

Customer: replied 5 months ago.
Sorry this took so long thanks for your patience. I checked the distributor sensor 2 and 4 connector and it read .381 on the 2k ohms scale. I guess that's 381, and it should be between .8 and 1.5? Is that the problem?
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 5 months ago.

Yes 381 ohms is too low evidently not low enough to set a code but still cause a no-start. They are usually 1 to 1.2 K ohms. Guess it's time to try a new distributor. At least now you have a solid diagnosis.

Thanks and good job!

~Cliff

Customer: replied 5 months ago.
Thanks for your help its all good to know. I am a little concerned with the price I thought it was $5 but there were to charges on my card one for $5 and another for $23 for a total of $28. Did I miss something?
Expert:  Honda-Man replied 5 months ago.

I think they charge the total after I respond but I am not totally sure? I don't get paid unless you rate or say you are satisfied. You will need to take it up with them but I would appreciate a positive rating for my time and information. I don't work for the site i am a private contractor so to speak.

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