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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Honda
Satisfied Customers: 21599
Experience:  ASE Master and Advanced level certified. Factory trained with 15 years dealership experience
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2006 Honda Odyssey EXL. It has been misfiring. Diagnostic

Customer Question

hello. 2006 Honda Odyssey EXL. It has been misfiring. Diagnostic efforts provided no results. Plugs, coils are all new fuel injectors are fine fuel pump was changed due to a recall
JA: Thanks. Can you give me any more details about your issue?
Customer: it misfires randomly It does not happen all the time when damp or wet the misfire happens only during the idle if the idle lasts longer than 3 minutes or so It has misfired few times when the conditions were not wet but cold but in the cold it only happens when I first start the car and let it idle In wet conditions, the misfire is more standard if idles If I give it a nice boost of gas when I start, it does not idle I have to not let it idle until it warms up though
JA: OK got it. Last thing — Mechanics for Honda generally expect a deposit of about $32 to help with your type of question (you only pay if satisfied). Now I'm going to take you to a page to place a secure deposit with JustAnswer. Don't worry, this chat is saved. After that, we will finish helping you.
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Honda
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
the car has
new coils, new plugs, new oxygen sensors, new cats, new EGR, new fuel pump, very clean recent fuel injectors.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
When it misfires the only code that shows is the random misfire 300 code. There are no other codes relating to any other failure. Engine pressures are okay. new coils and plugs are tested within the range.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It runs perfect with full power.
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist with this today.In some cases I may need more info to assist better.I apologize for any delay.

If the engine has a vacuum leak this will show up more in the moisture or when cold then as the engine warms up some the misfire will go away from there.I have seen this common with intake gaskets leaking to where the leak is allowing excess air to enter the engine as this can cause a lean misfire.With all that has been done here I would have the engine checked over for any vacuum leaks especially with the intake gaskets.In some cases this can require a smoke machine to inject smoke into the intake to see if it leaks out past the intake gaskets (when cold) to see if they need replaced.

This is a common cause for misfire only when cold and wet or at low engine speeds.

If more help is needed, use the reply tab to continue our conversation. If no further assistance is needed, kindly rate my service.You can rate at any time and we can continue to work on your question as this will not close out your question.Keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair your vehicle without seeing it and I work on delivering the best possible answer from what I see to work with.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Hello Pete,Vacuum test and pressure tests with plugs removed are all within range and stable. Head gaskets were changed, machined and the engine is operating properly.
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Was fuel pressure ever tested with a fuel pressure test gauge at all?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
fuel pump was replaced due to a recall by Honda and all the tests were done by Honda Dealer and deemed within the range and operating properly.
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

Did you have a compression test done at all?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
All good.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
The results of the compression test was good.
Expert:  Pete replied 8 months ago.

O.k.,this is a tough one for me to answer myself here.

I will open your question up for others here to see if someone else can assist further on this as there may be others here that may have more info on what to check or do with this issue.I hope you can get this resolved with ease.No need to reply to my last post here unless it is a last resort as it will keep your question locked to me and others will not be able to view it.If you feel you want to continue to work with me on this feel free to reply at any time but keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair this without seeing your vehicle.

Thanks Pete

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!

If it only misses when idling for a few minutes or more then it may be an upstream oxygen sensor heater issue.

Where did the replacement sensors come from and when were they replaced as opposed to the misfires starting?
When was the engine work done opposed to the misfires starting?

Do you have a scan tool?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Thank you. ***** have a scan tool.Oxygen Sensors are original purchased from a Honda dealer. Car misfired once or twice about 3 years ago. Then was fine for about a 1.5 years after that. So about a year ago, the occasional misfire became once every couple months. Then we had an overheating issue which damaged the gaskets. During which I was not sure initially what happened as it all went down slowly. Honda had fuel pump recall, that was taken care of, then the car was diagnosed with gasket problem. So all gaskets were changed with original honda gasket kit, head was machined etc. At that time, I also decided that I would replace anything in the way; cats, oxygen sensors (all of them) plug coils, spark plugs, two of the fuel injectors as one broke and the other did not look good. After the job, the car recovered power, ran properly. Misfire disappeared with the exception of misfires when cold and wet.I hope this gives you a better idea.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

What are the long and short term adaptives when the problem is happening?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Sorry I do not understand what you mean by adaptives?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Adaptives are a measure of how much fuel is being added or taken away. It will say adaptive or fuel trim.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I have the Cen Tech code reader can obd II Item 98568. Would that read the fuel information?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
What happens when the Idle misfire starts is the following.....
The engine clearly chokes, so some cylinders seem to drop. and Check engine light starts blinking. If I shut it down right away and then turn it back on, everything seems okay without any check engine light afterwards.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
If I let it misfire maybe more than 20 seconds, after that if turn off and then on, the check engine light stays lid but the engine turns properly if I give enough gas power, so it is not idling.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
how long the idling misfire continues has an effect on what happens to the check engine light.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

That's a code reader rather than a scan tool so it probably wont give any information at all. Does it show live data?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
it has freeze frame data function.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Does it show the adaptives in freeze frame?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
here is the description from the manual.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
When an emissions related fault occurs, the
OBD II system not only sets a code but also records a snapshot of the
vehicle operating parameters to help in identifying the problem. This
set of values is referred to as Freeze Frame Data and may include
important engine parameters such as engine RPM, vehicle speed, air
flow, engine load, fuel pressure, fuel trim value, engine coolant
temperature, ignition timing advance, or closed loop status.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
will that help?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Fuel trim is listed.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
am I supposed to do the freeze frame data when it is misfiring? Or let it misfire and then connect the code reader?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Freeze frame data stores when a fault code sets. If there is no data stored now then you'd need to drive it and allow the codes to reset.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I changed the alternator couple days ago. I still have 2 incomplete codes (emissions). So I will drive around little bit and give you freeze frame data when I obtain it.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Great!

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
hi, I still have two monitors not ready (cats and sensors) but I had the check engine light come on during idle as it was a very cold morning. I turned the ignition on without using gas pedal and let it idle until the misfires started. Here is the Freeze frame data which recorded. Once cats and sensors monitors are ready, I will try to simulate the same misfire and record the freeze frame data from it as well, if that will help more.Freeze Frame Data:
DTCFRZF P0301
FUELSYS1 CL
FUELSYS2 CL
LOAD PCT (%) 36.9
ETC (F) 81
SHRTFT1 (%) 15.6
LONGFT1(%) 0.8
SHRTFT2(%) -7.0
LONGFT2(%) -7.0
MAP(inHg) 10.9
RPM(/min) 1057
VSS(mph) 0
SPARKADV(*) 9
IAT(*F) 39
TP(%) 16.1
TP_R(%) 5.5
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Does 81 degrees coolant temperature appear correct for the amount of time that the engine ran?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
In the morning at a cold start when it was kind of snowing, it takes only a minute or so for it to misfire. If I keep the RPM around 1 or higher then there is no misfire regardless of the conditions / duration.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Let's unplug the rear bank upstream oxygen sensor, disconnect the battery to clear the adaptives, and see if it runs any differently.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
that's bank 1 sensor 1 right?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
ok. I unplugged the battery let it sit for about 2 hours. Then unplugged the wire to bank 1 sensor 1, the one on top of the cat. I started the car. Car ran about 5 minutes without any issues. ( keep in mind that temperature right now is about 55 and air is dry) I did not get a misfire with blinking check engine light. However when I plugged in the code reader it gave me a freeze frame data. Here is the details:
Actually it looks like I disconnected Bank 2 Sensor 1 when I look at the code reader.Freeze Frame Data:
DTCFRZF P0155
FUELSYS1 N/A
FUELSYS2 N/A
LOAD PCT (%) 0.0
ETC (F) 52
SHRTFT1 (%) 0.0
LONGFT1(%) 0.0
SHRTFT2(%) 0.0
LONGFT2(%) 0.0
MAP(inHg) 29.5
RPM(/min) 0
VSS(mph) 0
SPARKADV(*) 0
IAT(*F) 57
TP(%) 18.0
TP_R(%) 8.2
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Would it have normally acted up or was it too warm out?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
No it would not have acted out. It's too warm. I will try again tomorrow morning. It also does not act up if the engine is warmed up once in a day. Usually it's an early morning issue or cold and wet day issue it seems.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 8 months ago.

Let me know how it goes!

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
It has been a while since I got the code. Weather has been warm. No codes were generated. I got a code now. It was not cold but wet. The check engine light was not blinking though contrary to prior occurrences. The check engine light just came on and that was it. When I had the earlier issues, the check engine light would blink continuously, this time it did not. I guess that happens when it is cold and wet? This time it was just wet but not cold.
Here is the data.Freeze Frame Data:
DTCFRZF P0301
FUELSYS1 CL
FUELSYS2 CL
LOAD PCT (%) 40.8
ETC (F) 124
SHRTFT1 (%) 10.2
LONGFT1(%) 0.0
SHRTFT2(%) -3.1
LONGFT2(%) -11.7
MAP(inHg) 12.1
RPM(/min) 914
VSS(mph) 1
SPARKADV(*) 10
IAT(*F) 97
TP(%) 16.1
TP_R(%) 5.5
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I did not just get a PO301 code. I got the multiple misfire code 300 through 306. Freeze frame data only recorded data for the PO301.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 7 months ago.

It set a misfire code for every cylinder?

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Multiple misfire
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
That's what I always get
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 7 months ago.

A multi cylinder misfire is P0300. Individual cylinder misfire codes are P0301, 302, 303, 304, 305, and 306. You have a code for each individual cylinder or you have a P0301 and P0300? Please list each code that is actively setting.

My replies will be delayed as I do not have normal access to a computer.

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
P0300, P0301, 302,303,305,305,306
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
P0300 and each individual cylinder
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 7 months ago.

Have you tried duplicating the rpoblem by wetting wiring, etc in the engine compartment?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
no I did not. Any ideas as to what the freeze data may indicate?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 6 months ago.

The only thing that can be seen there is one bank was running a bit richer than the other.