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Dan, Technician
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Honda Accord 1800 LX I have a CODE P1382 problem with a 1998

Resolved Question:

I have a CODE P1382 problem with a 1998 Honda Accord LX 4-door sedan, manual transmission, 4-cylinder F23A1 4-cylinder engine VIN 1HGCG5542WA016495. I did all the P1382 diagnostic tests in the HONDA '98-'99 Accord service manual (connectors, resistances, and continuities at the distributor and the ECM) and all were OK. I changed spark plug wires, air filter, and plugs. The rotor and distributor cap look OK. My Honda dealer checked the ECM and said it was bad. The dealer replaced it with a new HONDA ECM I purchased online ($570 online, $850 at my local dealer) and set the ignition key code, and the CHECK ENGINE light stayed out for a few days and less than 200 miles in-town driving. Then, the light came on with the Code P1382 again. All diagnostic tests are still OK, but after erasing the codes, the light comes back on as soon as the engine starts. Using a 1.5 volt test lamp circuit, I verified that the yellow wire and the black wire from the ECM to the distributor carry current. Using an analog multimeter and with the engine running at idle and all connectors in place, I found a weak pulsing voltage timed with the firing of one cylinder at the yellow C29 terminal at the ECM. There was no reading at the C30 black wire terminal at the ECM. All this says to me that there is a signal from the distributor to the ECM. Getting the ECM checked again is quite expensive, and just getting another one using my warrantee and ending up in the same place would be a waste. Your advice would be most welcome. Augie
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Honda
Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.

Welcome to JustAnswer, my name is XXXXX XXXXX I'm here to help get your problem resolved. Ask follow up questions, thanks.

 

This is usually caused by distributor or ecm. The CYP sensor is located inside the distributor. The CYP sensor harness side wire colors are Yellow and Black. Ohm the CYP sensor - specification is(NNN) NNN-NNNNohms. Scope the CYP sensor on the Yellow wire and look for a consistent AC sine wave signal. Verify the CYP sensor signal on the Yellow wire at terminal C29 of the Engine Control Module (ECM). Then compare the CYP signal with the Top Dead Center (TDC) sensor and the Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor signals and verify there are good clean signals and there is not an erratic signal or interference on any of the signals. Verify the timing belt is aligned correctly and that the camshaft ands crankshaft keyways are not worn causing a phasing problem. Unplug the alternator and clear the code and see if it resets, if it does not reset look for AC voltage interference from a faulty diode in the alternator.

 

Potential Causes:Alternator
Crankshaft Position (CKP) Top Dead Position (TDC) Sensor
CYP Sensor
Distributor
Engine Control Module (ECM)
Improper Timing Belt/Phasing - Timing belt/phasing problem.
Wiring

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Dan,

 

Do you mean unplug the alternator and clear the code, plug the alternator back in, start the engine, and see if the code resets? Or do you mean unplug the alternator and clear the code, do not plug the alternator back in, start the engine with the alternator unplugged, and see if the code resets? Augie

Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.
Leave it unplugged and start vehicle to see if code resets.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Dan,

 

Thanks. It will take me a few days to get all these checks done, and then I'll get back to you. If we get "lost" and you don't hear from me in a few days, my E-mail is XXXXX@XXXXXX.XXX . Augie

Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.
I cant send a email, but we wont get lost. Let me know how it goes, thanks.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Dan,

 

I got a message about accepting your answer. I plan to do that, but I want to keep in contact with you until I do the checks you recommended in case I have other questions about this problem with my '98 Accord P1382 code. I cannot do the work right away because of weather and other jobs I am working on. I am also trying to get an ocsilloscope to do the 'scoping you recommended. I really appreciate your help, and I will be accepting your answer. I am afraid that once I accept your answer, I will lose contact with you about this P1382 problem, and I will not be able to tell you what I find and how it works out. OK?

 

Augie

 

Augie

Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.
No problem, let me know how it goes when you get a chance. Thanks.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Friday, Dec. 3

 

Dan,

 

After clearing the P1382 code and doing each of the following, I turned the key ON to verify that the code was gone, started the engine, and got the P1382 back immediately when the engine started. I will continue to pursue the oscilloscope tests you suggested and keep you informed.

 

Disonnect alternator, clear codes, start engine, P1382 code returns.

 

Reconnect alternator, clear codes, start engine, P1382 code returns.

 

Check timing belt condition (less than 60,000 miles old - looks like new), alignment of cam and crank pulley and timing belt, timing belt tension, crank pulley condition, valve clearances (all less than 0.002 inches more than normal), adjusted all valves, clear codes, start engine, P1382 code returns.

 

Can I "Accept Answer" and still be able to communicate with you to let you know what else I find and do? Maybe I'll even find the answer and solve the problem. Then, I can let you know what it turns out to be, which may help you, too.

 

Can I increase the amount I agree top "pay" above $20?

 

Augie

Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.
You can accept not or wait, either way is fine......At this point its time to test the distributor with scope of possible and if all looks good replace ecm. Let me know if you run into questions and let me know what you find out. Thanks.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Dec. 23, 2010 I am waiting for my new oscilloscope so I can complete the tests that Dan recommended. I will let you know what I find out and how I solve the problem. I plan to accept Dan's answer, especially since his answer and follow-up advice has been so thorough and beyond anything I could have found elsewhere. I will also be letting Dan know what I find out and how I solve the problem, since it seems to be an unusual situation. This is why I have not closed out this question item yet.

 

Augustine DiGiovanna

Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.
Sounds good, let me know how it goes. thanks.
Dan, Technician
Category: Honda
Satisfied Customers: 21428
Experience: Independent Shop Experience, 2 Year Automotive Diploma, & Access to Information Database
Dan and other Honda Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Feb. 28, 2011

 

Dan,

 

I FINALLY got my new oscilloscope and have learned how to use it. It is quite different from any 'scope I have used before. It's a Sealey TA220 from England. With better weather, I also made some recordings from the wire side of the ECM connectors. I am going to try to send and to attach a set of dual beam recordings I got at idle (approx. 800PRM) with no accessories running. I labeled the recordings according to the sensor being recorded and the connections on the C-connector to the ECM. The recordings include the 'scope settings (e.g., voltage ranges, trace speed). I can make other recordings at other settings if you want them. Just let me know. I hope these 'scope tracings mean something to you. To me, it seems that some of the sensor signals are erratic, which may be "interpreted" by my ECM as "bad CYP sensor signal", which is causing my P1382 code.

 

I am going to try to paste the recordings below.

 

Thanks - Augie

 

 

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

Combination oscilloscope readings

 

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = CKP sensor = ECM connectors C8/C9
B = TDC sensor = ECM connectors C20/C9
Memory 00
graphic

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = CKP sensor = ECM connectors C8/C9
B = TDC sensor = ECM connectors C20/C9
Memory 01
graphic

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = CKP sensor = ECM connectors C8/C9
B = CYP sensor = ECM connectors C29/C9
Memory 02
graphic

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = CKP sensor = ECM connectors C8/C9
B = CYP sensor = ECM connectors C29/C9
Memory 03
graphic

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = TDC sensor = ECM connectors C20/C9
B = CYP sensor = ECM connectors C29/C9
Memory 04
graphic

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = TDC sensor = ECM connectors C20/C9
B = CYP sensor = ECM connectors C29/C9
Memory 05
graphic

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = TDC sensor = ECM connectors C20/C9
B = CYP sensor = ECM connectors C29/C9
Memory 06
graphic

Return to Oscilloscope Recording list

A = TDC sensor = ECM connectors C20/C9
B = CYP sensor = ECM connectors C29/C9
Memory 07
graphic

 

 

Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.
Did you ever end up cleaning code, disconnecting alternator, restarting to see if it comes back?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

 

March 1, 2011

 

Dan,

 

Yes, I have done the following.

 

After clearing the P1382 code and doing each of the following, I turned the key ON to verify that the code was gone, started the engine, and got the P1382 back immediately when the engine started.

 

Disconnect alternator, clear codes, start engine, P1382 code returns.

 

Reconnect alternator, clear codes, start engine, P1382 code returns.

 

Checked timing belt condition (less than 60,000 miles old - looks like new), alignment of cam and crank pulley and timing belt, timing belt tension, crank pulley condition, valve clearances (all less than 0.002 inches more than normal), adjusted all valves, clear codes, start engine, P1382 code returns.

 

Is there a way to verify that the new ECM I put in is OK? Recall that when I installed the new ECM, I did not get any error codes until I drove the car several times locally and accumulated about 100-200 miles. I did not keep careful track of the number of times I drove or the total accumulated distance, because I was so happy that the codes were gone and I could adjust the idle so the car ran well when I replaced the old ECM with a new ECM from Honda.

 

I replaced the old ECM because the idle had become so low that the car would stall at idle, and because I got codes that I could not eliminate. I took the car to Honda, and they told me that the ECM must be replaced, which is why I got a new ECM from Honda. Also by the way, the number on the new ECM is not at all the number on the old ECM, but Honda assured me that they gave me the correct ECM. The old ECM was 37820-PAA-L10 and also was labeled with 1003-1037href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html8 and the new ECM is 37820-PAA-408. My VIN is 1HGCG5542WA0164href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html5.

 

By the way, I found out from Honda that the old ECM was a replacement for the original factory ECM. It was replaced before I purchased the car, which I got used from Honda with approximately 40,000 miles. Honda had replaced a few things before I got the car, including the ignition switch (a Honda recall, which went bad again recently and Honda replaced again.

 

Dan, I want to increase the amount you get for your help. Do I do that through the "Just Answer - Ask a Honda Question, Get an Answer ASAP" page?

 

For what is may be worth as previous information, below is a complete record of what has been happening starting before October 2010.

 

Augie

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Beginning early October 2010 and extending for two months.

 

1href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.htmlhref="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html8 Honda Accord LX 4-door sedan, manual transmission, 4-cylinder F23A1 4-cylinder engine

VIN 1HGCG5542WA0164href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html5

 

Previous problems involving the CHECK ENGINE light turning on involved codes for the EGR system. These problems were solved once the EGR valve was replaced.

 

  • 1. CHECK ENGINE light on - Code P1382 - "No Signal in CYP Sensor Circuit"
  • 2. Idle very low - below 500RPM. Engine stalls occasionally at idle as idle falls below 200RPM.
  • 3. Erase codes by removing fuse No. 13 Clock Backup fuse (7.5 amps) for more than 10 seconds. CHECK ENGINE returns as soon as engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance.
  • 4. Perform DTC P1382 diagnosis.
  • a. Erase codes by removing fuse No. 13 Clock Backup fuse (7.5 amp) for more than 10 seconds. CHECK ENGINE returns as soon as engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance.
  • b. Spark plug wires seem OK.
  • c. Resistance at distributor 4-pin male connector terminals No 3. and No. 4 = href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html00 ohms. OK
  • d. No continuity between distributor 4-pin male connector terminal No 3. and ground. OK
  • e. No continuity between distributor 4-pin male connector terminal No 4. and ground. OK
  • f. Resistance at ECM female connector terminals C2href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html and C30 (yellow and black wires) = href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html00 ohms. OK
  • g. No continuity between ECM male connector terminal C2href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html and ground. OK
  • 5. Replace spark plug wires with new Honda wires. Erase codes. CHECK ENGINE returns as soon as engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance.
  • 6. Adjust idle to 750RPM using Throttle Body adjustments. Could not reach 750RPM idle using the Idle Adjusting Screw. Could achieve 750RPM at idle only by turning the Throttle Stop Screw, though the shop manual says not to turn the Throttle Stop Screw. Will check the Throttle Body at another time.
  • 7. Erase codes. CHECK ENGINE returns as soon as engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance with idle now at 750RPM. Engine has slight slow rhythmic sound changes at idle, approximately 4 second cycle of sound changes at idle speed, but not registering as changes in RPM on tachometer. Will check the Throttle Body at another time.
  • 8. Honda dealership (Pohanka) checks ECM and finds it is faulty.
  • href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html. Replace ECM with new Honda ECM from Dealer Direct Parts (Order number 21href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html4 placed 10/28/2010)
  • a. NOTE:
  • (1) Original ECM numbers = 37820-PAA-L10 1003-1037href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html8
  • (2) New ECM number is XXXXX
  • (3) New ECM installed by Honda dealership and coded with ignition key code by Honda dealership. Erase codes. CHECK ENGINE light off.
  • b. Idle speed will not drop below 1200 RPM as long as the vehicle wheels are turning, whether the clutch is disengaged or disengaged and regardless of transmission gear setting or in neutral. Idle speed returns to 750RPM only after wheels come to a complete stop. Engine has slight slow rhythmic pulsing sound at idle, approximately 4 second cycle of pulsing sound of idle speed, but not registering as changes in RPM on tachometer.
  • 10. Drove vehicle on a few short trips around town over a period of several days. Drove less than 200 miles. CHECK ENGINE light stayed off for a few days. Then, while driving in town, the CHECK ENGINE light came on again. The code was again P1382.
  • 11. Check spark plugs
  • a. Plug 1 - normal color but tip of center electrode slightly burned away around electrode
  • b. Plugs 2 & 3 - normal but center electrode slightly coated with gray/black deposit
  • c. Plug 4 - center insulator and entire inner surface coated with thin black carbon deposit
  • 12. Replace spark plugs. Replace air filter. Clean and check PCV valve. Check all connections and hoses. Erase codes. CHECK ENGINE light on as soon as the engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance.
  • 13. Check distributor cap and rotor. Both seem normal. Repeat erase codes. CHECK ENGINE light on as soon as the engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance.
  • 14. Perform DTC P1382 diagnosis.
  • a. Repeat erase codes. CHECK ENGINE light is out when ignition key is turned ON. CHECK ENGINE light on as soon as the engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance.
  • b. Spark plug wires and connections seem OK.
  • c. Resistance at distributor 4-pin connector terminals No 3. and No. 4 = href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html00 ohms. OK
  • d. No continuity between distributor 4-pin connector terminal No 3. and ground. OK
  • e. No continuity between distributor 4-pin connector terminal No 4. and ground. OK
  • f. Resistance at distributor 4-pin connector terminals No 3. and No. 4 = href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html00 ohms. OK
  • g. Resistance at ECM connector terminals C2href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html and C30 (yellow and black wires) = href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html00 ohms. OK
  • h. No continuity between ECM connector terminal C2href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html and ground. OK
  • i. Resistance between ECM connector terminals C2href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html and C30 = 10,500 OHMS (Normal value unknown.)
  • j. Check continuity through yellow wire from ECM female connector C (31P) connector female terminal C2href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html to distributor 4-pin connector female terminals No 3. with 1.5 volt battery-powered bulb circuit tester - full function. OK
  • k. Check continuity through black wire from ECM connector C (31P) connector female terminal C30 to distributor 4-pin connector female terminals No 4. with 1.5 volt battery-powered bulb circuit tester - full function. OK
  • 15. Connect all connectors to the ECM and to the distributor. OK
  • 16. Repeat erase codes. CHECK ENGINE light is out when ignition key is turned ON. CHECK ENGINE light on as soon as the engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance.
  • 17. With engine running and using an analog voltmeter, check voltage at yellow wire at ECM connector C (31P) connector female terminal C2href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html. Very low voltage pulsing voltage timed with firing of one cylinder.
  • 18. With engine running and using an analog voltmeter, check voltage at yellow wire at ECM connector C (31P) connector female terminal C30. No voltage or pulsing voltage.
  • 1href="http://www.justanswer.com/honda/4a9or-honda-accord-1800-lx-code-p1382-problem-1998.html. Check timing at idle. Timing normal = 12 degrees BTDC. Timing advances as RPM advance above idle. OK
  • 20. Repeat erase codes. CHECK ENGINE light is out when ignition key is turned ON. CHECK ENGINE light on as soon as the engine starts. Code is P1382. No change in performance. Engine has slight slow rhythmic pulsing sound at idle, approximately 4 second cycle of pulsing sound of idle speed, but not registering as changes in RPM on tachometer.

 

 

 

 

Expert:  Dan replied 3 years ago.
I'll opt-out of question to see if someone has dealt with this problem specifically, someone will reply automatically when they can help. Thanks.
Expert:  MASTER TECH replied 3 years ago.

Hello welcome to just answer I am master tech and will be able to assist you today.

did you still need help on this ?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Dan and Expert,

 

I am not familiar with how "Just Answer" works, so am I correct that Dan and Expert are both getting my question? If so, I am all for letting both of you or anyone else respond. I appreciate your doing this for me.

 

Yes, I still have the same problem. I am hoping that the 'scope traces I sent will provide some help in finding the answer. I can send other 'scope and multimeter information you request. I can even put it onto my web site for you to look at as well as send it by responses like this one.

 

Augie (Augustine DiGiovanna)

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Dan and Expert,

 

The bonus I sent was for Dan. Did he get it? I look forward to hearing from Expert or anyone about my P1382 code problem.

 

Thanks.

 

Augie

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