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Dovetail Greene
Dovetail Greene, General Contractor
Category: Home Improvement
Satisfied Customers: 312
Experience:  Licensed Building Contractor & Certified Building Designer
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ROOFING EXPERT I live in a condo, our village has 210 units.

Customer Question

ROOFING EXPERT
I live in a condo, our village has 210 units. We are in the process of getting new roofs. The consultant has written a very high level of specifications. The roofing material is Boral concrete tiles. The underlayment and other details are designed for a true 50 year roof.
We live in San Jose Valley. It is 40 miles to the coast. The exposed nails on our trim (rake) tiles are a 10d hot dipped galvanized nail. I am not sure this nail will last the intended 50 years. I know most suppliers would recommend S.S. nails. I am sure the nail they are using is from china. Maze Nails a U.S. product sells a hot galvanized DOUBLE dipped nail, this nail can be factory painted to match tile color. I am told the paint alone will provide up to 10 additional years of life. The nails have a waffle pattern which helps hold the paint. They are driven in only 1'' into the old wood. The cost for the project is about $1000 for the cheap nails and $2000 for the maze PAINTED nail. Assuming we will not use S.S, nails what is you thought on the Maze nail ( 5/16 head- 10 ga.- 3'' long) thanks Bob
Submitted: 11 months ago.
Category: Home Improvement
Expert:  Dovetail Greene replied 11 months ago.

Hello Bob,

My name's Kel.

 

Has the contractor given you a quote for SS nails?

 

Is my arithmetic correct : 2000$ premium for Maze nails divided by 210 units = 9.52$ upcharge per unit.

That is smart money.

 

Maze is an outstanding company with outstanding products.

(They have quite an ambitious internal reclaiming and recycling system.)

Avoid the Chinese nails like the plague.

IF they are hot dipped I'm guessing the coating will be thin.

It's an issue because the act of driving the nail can tear off the coating and leave metal exposed.

The salt air will find it and throw rust.

 

When ever I'm dealing with salt air I always use SS.

 

Have I answered your question?

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Maze sales people indicated from experience that even though they use just a standard house paint they have from experience seen the pay stay on and protect for 10 year plus or minus. Would you agree the painting process will add valuable life to the nails. Bob

Expert:  Dovetail Greene replied 11 months ago.

Yes.

The paint does add life to the nails.

With the caveat that they must be installed properly.

Meaning the correct length for the application.

If they're too long they require too many hammer blows which tears the paint off the top of the waffle head.

One inch penetration sounds good.

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

one last thing the difference between the two nails is only $1000 divided by 210 puts the cost per villa at under $5 each sounds like really smart money to me. thanks Bob

Expert:  Dovetail Greene replied 11 months ago.

Most definitely smart money.

 

Perhaps I state the obvious --

another reason for using the best possible fastener :

appearance.

Cheaper fasteners will begin to throw rust.

They won't fail and let the tile fly away in a high wind, but they'll rust and stain the trim and tile. . .

reducing resale value. . .

Dovetail Greene, General Contractor
Category: Home Improvement
Satisfied Customers: 312
Experience: Licensed Building Contractor & Certified Building Designer
Dovetail Greene and 2 other Home Improvement Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Dovetail Greene replied 11 months ago.
Hello again Bob. This's Kel checking in to see how the roofing project's going. . .
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Hi on the same roof matter I have concerns on the length of time the contractors are leaving our organic felt paper exposed to the sun. I know the uv rays will rapidly age the felt. We have sunny days every day, temperatures into mid 80's to mid 90's. The paper is exposed for 6 to 8 weeks. I have done a lot of research and not found to much solid information. United Roofing Mfg. supplies felt to the Lowes chain of stores. They recommend that the primary roof be installed immediately after the application of the felt. I need some good hard data, the best would be lab tests or a statement by industry respected groups like NRCA or TRI/WSCRA. Our current consultant feels 4-6 weeks is acceptable. The existing paper turns from black, black to brown black in 8 weeks. I need to know if we are losing a large percent of our paper life I need something this consultant will have a difficult time contradicting. thanks Bob

Expert:  Dovetail Greene replied 10 months ago.

Hello again Bob,

 

I looked around myself and couldn't find anything that would be helpful.

 

This doesn't answer you question, but an observation and a query --

from a project management point of view why is the GC or PM waiting SO long to install the roofing? Wind can carry paper away leaving the building exposed. In the sun and rain paper puckers making it more difficult to install the finish well.

 

I was taught to get a building weather proof as soon as possible to protect the ongoing interior work.

 

Why are they waiting so long?

 

Why not specify all roofing finishes must be in place 2 weeks after the roof decking is in place?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Wiecks roof consulting acknowledges the following:
1 “No. 30 Underlayment can be exposed to the sun for several weeks prior to covering with tile, with very little concern regarding aging. One month is not a serious concern in this climate. Two months is cause for greater concern.”
2 “It is better to cover the underlayment sooner, as it does age more rapidly in sunlight.
Both layers deteriorate in the heat, slowly. Only the exposed top layer deteriorates also due to the ultraviolet radiation from the sunlight.”



my reply back was--


Weicks consultants agree that Underlayment ages more rapidly when exposed to the uv radiation from the sun. My question is how do they defend the exposures times they supply. One of my emails from the company that supplies all of Lowes felt paper recommends the primary roof should be installed imediately after the felt is down. I am not comfortable just taking Weicks acceptable exposure times. Please have them produce something in writing from a 3rd party preferably some past testing done by a qualified lab. I am sure that information must exist. Please give me a detailed explanation as to why the following schedule seems to be in progress. FIRST the demo crew (6 men) takes off the existing roof, repairs are made on the sheathing, followed by new roof prep. The whole process is less than


10 work days. After the roof is prepped for the primary tile IT SITS ON AVERAGE OF 6 WEEKS IN THE HOT SUN. At this point the primary roof installers (4 men) start working on the building and It takes approx. 3 more weeks to completely cover the felt paper. It appears the only reason for this is that the demo crew moves faster than the final primary roof installers. This felt exposure time will get longer and longer until they either add men to the roof installers crew (4) or either remove men, or tell the demo crew to take time off so the installers can close the gap. How could we the villa owners and the ones paying for the new roof possibly
be happy with this unacceptable exposure time. I have done a lot of research and I only find a need to install the primary roof as quick as possible. I have not found any information to suggest that the Weicks statements are acceptable industry standards. You mentioned the roofing contract is trying to close this gap. Trying and doing are two different things. Weicks and the villages maintenace group should be demanding this 6 week gap be closed to no more than
2 weeks and setting a date for it to be accomplished. If we cannot get control of this issue we should consider some of the newer underlayment products that guarantee 6 to 12 months allowable exposure times.

Expert:  Dovetail Greene replied 10 months ago.

I'm guessing this job is too big for the roofing company.

If they're not going to provide adequate, competent people to do the work in a timely manner --

timely means to get the finish work done quickly

then you need an addendum to the contract when they will take ALL responsibility for degraded roofing performance.

 

They will have to compensate you in some way --

a longer warranty or enhanced repair coverage.

 

You might also hire another company, so the project duration isn't as long.

 

I'm going to opt-out.

Perhaps another person at Just Answer can supply the type of information you seek.

Expert:  Machinc replied 10 months ago.
When it comes to a difference of a thousand dollars for such a large project it I'd well worth it to go with the higher quality higher price . If only one nail fails the damage can be in the thousands of dollars .
Think of the higher cost as being insurance along with better quality.
You don't want to get sued and have them point out you used the cheaper nails even though they may be acceptable for the job , z
Expert:  Machinc replied 10 months ago.
In regards XXXXX XXXXX question about the felt. That varies with weight and brand,As far as time periods perhaps it may be better if you went with the higher bidderTime should be a factor that is thoroughly covered in the contract and and should be accompanied by a performance bond. The winning bidder should be the one tha guarantees the materials will be installed by a designated time period after the starting date . Stick to your guns a contractor should be glad to meet what are normal Practices for a job if this scope.
Expert:  Machinc replied 10 months ago.
Let us know how it went .

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