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Phil
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: Home Improvement
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Experience:  Retired contractor, 51 years experience
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If there is sedation gas coming in to a small room, what can

Customer Question

If there is sedation gas coming in to a small room, what can be done to overcome the sedation? Is the principal of sedation "lower oxygen to a certain level"while giving sedation gas. I need to know if there is some type of equipment (either room equipment or equipment to be used on a person)that releases an alarm when the oxygen level goes below a certain level.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Home Improvement
Expert:  Gina-Moderator replied 1 year ago.

Hi, I'm a moderator for this topic. I've been working hard to find a professional to assist you right away, but sometimes finding the right professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you. Thank you!


Best,


Gina~Moderator
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I need this question answered by an expert. Preventive or warning equipment is needed. Please continue to search for knowledgeable person. thanks

Expert:  Gina-Moderator replied 1 year ago.
Hello Bonnie:

Thank you for your continued patience. We will continue the search for a professional for you.


Best,


Gina~Moderator
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Welcome to Just Answer !

I see you have been waiting. You have a bit of an uncommon question.

It is an area that I am experienced in. However I am currently on vacation and traveling in central america with a spotty internet connection.

We can discuss the situation if you like and can be patient with the bad connection.

In summary, ventilation is the best solution for virtually all of these sorts of situations. However the exact nature of the sedation gas is important... can you tell me the source of the sedation gas? Is it sewer gas of any sort? Is it ground gas infiltration such as radon gas infiltrating from the earth?

Can you tell me the size of the room and how many occupants are in it, and how the room is constructed? Is the room air tight? or more loosely constructed?

There are Carbon Dioxide sensors on the market that are now required by law in certain industrial applications in some states, such as california. Those however are an extreme measure for most residential applications. 5 cubic feet of air per minute ventilation per person generally solves such issues

Oxygen level sensors are less common and more expensive and are not generally warranted if other options such as ventilation is available.

The other factor is that we do not like to design life safety systems that are dependent on instrumentation... ventilation solves that problem. as long as the fan is running or the there is even minimal cross ventilation, oxygen levels are not generally a problem.

There are exhaust and fresh air exchange systems on the market that are mandated in many states in order to supply to fresh air to homes and buildings... cost is in the $1,000 range. Those exchange 100- 200 CFM per minute however. Way more than you need for a single small room. These recover the heat energy from the exhaust air stream and use it to warm the incoming fresh air... they are about the size of large suitcase and have 4 air duct connections on them.

CLICK HERE FOR SOME PICTURES



A very small muffin fan will suffice as a general rule to supply sufficient breathing air to a small room... (5 cubic feet of air per minute per person).

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your response. My home is small (est 900 sq ft living space)concrete block with plaster on inside walls--built back in 1960 era. The last quarter of 2011 , I awoke to hear unusual sound in attic--like hydraulic equipment --I recall thinking "I must be dreaming" & went back to sleep. Within short time ceiling & wall cracks appeared--even perpendicular cracks from ceiling to top of bedroom doors.Floor Base boards lifted as much as 1/4 inch from floor.In places I noticed what appears to be fresh white caulk along top of walls near ceiling.Beginning about April / May of 2012 changes began to occur--like missing items from house and harmful body changes. These changes occurred overnight after sleeping. I began to notice sweet fume smell--for example the light switch in kitchen seemed to have sweet smell coming from it. I tried opening windows and doors--which did help some. I moved furniture away from wall and used long lighter with open flame---in certain areas of wall---the flame sucked in/then back out---almost being put out. There was smell coming from tiny wall holes--used spackling. There was smell at times coming from the ceiling cracks so I used spackling to seal cracks but later cracks were open again.This is ongoing problem that needs to be resolved. Would small portable oxygen tank (used by persons with breathing problems) eliminate any sedation effect from such fumes. My home needs to be safe from anyone entering in while a person sleeps..My alarm system went out--caused much problems. The sedation fumes need to be eliminated or I need to use some type of equipment that sets off an alarm or possibly the oxygen tank is a good idea. I know little about the principle of sedating a person.I am trying to be as discreet as possible about resolving this situation because I believe I am set up to "appear Looney" and there is a rich enemy that could possibly be connected with this crazy stuff. I have connected with a private investigator about this situation--which is expensive. Therefore if you can offer an affordable plan to stop what's happening, I will be very grateful. I need to mention the fumes are present even with the windows open and its pretty strong. I have to make effort to go outside every so often to take in fresh air. I have been trying to stay awake at night due to overnight changes---and have a friend stay in this house during morning hours while I sleep. Staying awake at night is still very difficult for me----unless I go outside in the yard. Also about the same time this sedation fumes occurred & missing items and physical body changes----my electric bill went up $50 to $70 dollars a month. Electric company does not know cause--so put in transformer.Also I've had problem with outside lights dimming.Electric junction boxes in attic are now "open" per electrician. There were changes to breakers in electric box. For instance the back yard light and tvs were placed on different breaker---than switched back to the original breaker.

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, thanks for the information.

The cracks and gaps showing up around the base boards near the floor are signs of the house settling.

If there are odors the house could be settling because of an underground water or sewer leak and that would account for the odors.

For about $300 you can hire a state licensed home inspector to look the situation over for you and confirm an foundation of settling issues... testing would be required to confirm any underground water or sewer line leaks.

Regarding the odors. You will be best off with a small ventilating unit... something like a bathroom exhaust fan run 6 or 8 hours a day might do the trick.

There are no alarm systems that I know of on the market for detecting such gas accumulations. There are only carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide detectors and both of those gasses are odorless. The gas you are getting in the house probably organic in nature. Sometimes homes are built over a solid waste disposal site and end up having these problems.


The cheapest and surest solution for your situation will be a small fan fit into one of the windows and running it as needed.

In this case, the smaller the fan the better..

https://www.google.com/search?q=window+fan&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NWqAUbfnLozg8ASz4oBo&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=768&bih=301

Click that link, it shows many options, all available at any of the big box home supply stores.

Let me know what you think. we can go from there as necessary.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks for your response. My house is built on a concrete slab and I have lived in it since 1990 without much incidence until 2011 and 2012. I don't understand why this house didn't "settle" much until year 2011 and there has been no peculiar smells or gases until detection in 2012. My central heat & air system - Due to unexplained high electric bills I shut off breakers in main electric box last summer of 2012. I came home one hot evening and felt the Freon lines on unit in hall--- cold to the touch even though electric breakers were off.Next I had Freon drained from the lines and I began using window a/c units


 


I need for you to think in terms of "what if" there is some type of unauthorized activity . What if there is some type of medical sedation occurring at night------please advise if the portable oxygen tank for breathing will prevent / block any effect of such room sedation.


Also Will "air ventilation" stop any effect of medical sedation? Is there some simple test to detect "sleeping gas"? Also does excess carbon dioxide and radon cause "sleep" to occur?


 

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.

Hello again, It would be way more than exceedingly rare that any deliberate attempt to sedated you would be possible if you had a ventilation fan in the window. Thats the key point to remember.

Without a ventilation fan it would be possible to sedate you by introducing one or another of the various sedation gases used in medicine, or just carbon dioxide in a high enough volume. It is possible, but would generally require a good sized tank of gas that you would see outside of your house,

 

There is a chance that an improperly vented gas appliance in your home or even a neighbors home is leaking carbon MONoxide gas into your home, that is odorless but its associated gases are not odorless, You can buy a carbon MONoxide detector for less than $50 to detect that. Sleepyness is one side effect of carbon monoxide gas, it is very often lethal in heavier concentrations.

 

You may also want to buy a carbon DIoxide gas detector as well.. that is only lethal in very high concentrations, it is also odorless.

 

These detectors can be battery powered or wired into the house power, and are available at most larger hardware and home supply stores.

 



_________

The house settling is another issue. Cracks in the walls and the increased space between the baseboards and the floor indicate settling... the width of the cracks is an accurate measure of the amount of settling.

______

You can contact a local medical supply store that caters to people who need wheel chairs and special beds.. they will also have the oxygen tanks and equipment that you are interested in for breathing at night.

The cheapest and most practical solution however is ventilation...

You can buy carbon dioxide detectors at the link below

http://www.professionalequipment.com/carbon-dioxide-gas-detectors/

Stay in touch as necessary, we can go from there.

Phil


Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello:


In the past I have even smelled gas fumes coming from the roof eaves surrounding my house. Therefore I wonder if an exhaust fan will suck in the harmful fumes. One night I turned on my bathroom exhaust fan---which pulled down the fumes from the attic area into the bathroom. The exhaust fan is not connected to the outside----but only to attic area.


 


Also those fumes have been so strong that 2 open windows did not sufficiently halt the matter. But with both doors open and both windows---yes --the room was aired out.


 


Please advise if the exhaust fan will help ---in connection with fumes from attic area coming out of roof eaves.


 


thanks

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.

Hello again.

With such extreme odors no typical exhaust fan will help... and in warm or cold weather use of a sufficiently large fan would quadruple your heating and cooling bill.

There seems to be no solution other than finding the source of the odor and eliminating it, especially if others can smell it also. It is not uncommon that rodents, mice or batts build living quarters in an attic and then leave it loaded with droppings and urine.. that should be investigated.



If it is only you that smells the odors, then it could be a hypersensitivity or allergy situation. That would be a medical issue, something I am not qualified to discuss. Such conditions are not entirely rare.

_________

Regarding your bathroom exhaust fan.... it should have ductwork attached that allows the fan to blow the bathroom exhaust air out through the roof. A properly fit bathroom exhaust fan does not draw air into the bathroom... it takes air out of the bathroom and blows it out through the roof through 4 inch diameter metal duct work.

 

If the current bathroom exhaust is blowing that air into the attic, it will cause a dangerous mold condition in some climates.. that can spread through an entire house, inside the walls.. molds, especially 'black mold' can be fatal. You can buy mold test kits in most hardware stores. Those are not expensive. Let me know how that goes along with the other inspections I am suggesting here.




There should be other vents going out through the roof as well. These are called sewer vents. If any of them are simply terminated in the attic you will get sewer gases trapped in the attic. A plumber can inspect for such improper venting,

That would be the next step.

Let me know how that goes, we can proceed from there.


Phil


Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Hello: The night there was a sweet smell coming around the kitchen light switch--my son smelled it also but was too sleepy to recall it later.He has a poor sense of smell so is not much help in such matters. My home has city water and sewer - such pipes are located in my front yard. I have no gas appliances;however, neighbors may have such. There were no such smells until about April or May of 2012 when many physical body changes began to occur along with some missing items and much higher electric bills. There have been other harmful changes also;therefore I am highly suspicious of criminal activity.


Is there a kit for me to collect air sample to send off for testing?

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.

Hello again,

Collecting and testing of air samples can be tricky business. Expensive as well. And even if there are contaminants, those can be easily missed for the following reasons:

- The tests are specific for exact compounds and gases. There are hundreds of them.
so that testing for all them becomes prohibitively expensive.

- Some gases and other contaminants are reactive at very few parts per million.. those are very low concentrations, difficult to detect in many cases.

- Your sample may be taken at time when concentrations are low so will not
show up on a single test.

_______________

Regarding criminal activity. You can buy inexpensive cameras, hide them around the house, and outside the house. Connect them to a computer and get 24/7 surveillance on the house and property. Systems such as this for the home sell for under $500 to $1,000 and there are many companies that can set them up for you for another $500 or so depending on the complexity.

These cameras can be set up to only record when there is motion... that makes reviewing the tapes very easy.

_____________

Regarding the emotional effects of such events. I am not a doctor so am not qualified to discuss these matters, except to relate my own experiences.

It is my view that its best not to arrive at any hard core suspicions or conclusions until you have proof... in my case I find that many times I suspect foul play it turns out to be my own forgetfulness or other factors involved. In some cases rodents and the neighbors animals have been known to collect the neighbors possessions and hide them under the house etc.. all sorts of such things can happen.

It is best not to guess. It is best to investigate and see what is going on exactly from my experience. Hidden camera surveillance would be my first suggestion in those regards. You can buy a single camera that you can set to record only when there is motion for under $100 or so as well. Hide it inside a tissue box and place it in the suspect area.. then check it the next day and see what it records.

I will send this message to you before I loose it. You can also search google with the words 'hidden camera, spy, equipment' and find a bunch of online sources.


Stay in touch, we can go from there..

 

CLICK HERE FOR A LINK TO HIDDEN CAMERA EQUIPMENT

 

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/category/more+to+explore/spy+gear.do

 

You can also click this URL just above directly. Most larger cities also have shops that specialize in such equipment.. it pays to shop around and get familiar with all of the options... sometimes the least expensive options are best.

Phil

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Wow!

Your answer is great and really appreciated but I need to ask more.

 

This is completely different subject but I need your feedback. Back in May 2012 there were "beep noises" a couple of times--coming from ceiling area right above dining room table. That area of the attic has some type of "cover" over electric wires that are fed into the electric box located in utility room just on the other side of the wall. The beeps occurred when a red truck located across the street in driveway---moved a couple of times. What would cause such a beep in my attic when the truck moved a couple of times. I viewed the truck out of my front living room window. I forgot to mention that there appeared to be a long antanae on the truck---like there could be a short wave radio. Also that truck was not the resident at that home but a visitor.

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, the beep sound could have come from a listening device planted in the electrical box... those are called 'bugs' you can buy a bug detector at the same place you can buy a spy camera system. $100 or so.

Generally these things are coincidences and not any sort of real situation unless you are in a position where someone can benefit from such measures... in any event, you can buy a bug detector.... go to the link below and read up the kinds of bugs there are and what it takes to detect them.

CLICK HERE FOR A SOURCE ON BUG AND LISTENING DEVICE DETECTORS


Phil
Phil, Mechanical Engineer
Category: Home Improvement
Satisfied Customers: 5670
Experience: Retired contractor, 51 years experience
Phil and 2 other Home Improvement Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello:


Your advice is fantastic!! Have a great day.


 


But I need to ask additional info.


 


Please be patient.


 


thank you very much at this time.

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again, if you can rate one of my answers positively, as 'good' or 'excellent' I will be able to hold the question open for you.

Thanks!

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hello:


Today my kitchen sink water(supplied by the city) was oily again. (There was trouble with same in the past.) There was an oily looking film on top of coffee water and tea water. I intend to ask my neighbors if their city water supply is similar. Any advice?

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again !

Yes, do check with your neighbors on that.

These days we have underground gas and oil wells that are operated by sending explosive charges into the deep rock below the water tables... that technique cracks the oil and gas bearing rock layers and allows the gas and oil to be recovered.

However... the cracks it creates has let the gas and oil into some of our nations aquafers.. contaminating them with oil and gas. Some people get enough natural gas out of their water taps now to light it on fire. Greed apparently has no limits.

Search www.youtube.com with various combinations of the following terms:

'fracking', 'underground aquifer contamination, fracking'

There are protests world wide about this situation.

Phil

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hello:

For a couple of years now frozen ice cubes reveal large bubbles at times; also small bubbles--that show empty spaces when cube is opened so I assume: "air" bubbles but normally any air in the water pipes makes extremely loud noise. What could be happening?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hello:

Here is another question:
For past several days now my cell phone beeps while I am conversing but shows batter is fine plus I charged it just to see if beep problem was still there---"beep still occurs". Any suggestions as to why?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hello: I am encountering a black substance on my vinyl floors at times.After wiping up black substance with alcohol, there is a white crusty substance exposed that can be scraped (even with finger nails)to be rid of. Any idea what black substance can be --that leaves such a white crust? Also the vinyl tiles have large white spots in places that cleaning of black substance occurred.And I keep seeing a black substance on top of my car. After wiping,there is white spotting---appears to be eating away at paint job.After cleaning the top of car,I used cooking oil spray to moisten it up. It seemed to improve some but I had to remove so flying dirt would not be picked up. Wax has helped some. What do you think about this black substance? I have been advised that testing takes much money. Any simple tests?
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again ! Tell me how close you are to any factories, chemical processing plants, rail yards,city dumps, agricultural area where the stubble is burned off at the end of the harvest, or truck depots... tell me if this is seasonal or a year round problem.

I could be carbon black.

If you are in an area with high humidy, it could be mold. You can buy a mold testing kit for $5 or so at most home inprovement stores.

I have no idea what the white crusty substance is,

I would use car wax on the car once every month or so..and floor wax on the floor instead of alcohol... I would use soap and water to clean the floor and the car, then the wax.



Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There is an industrial mfg plant nearby. I will ask my neighbors if such problems are occurring with their equipment. It's the white residue that causes me to wonder. Alcohol was purchased recently. As far as seasons--I don't know.

thanks
Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again.

Observing these situations over time will generally show a pattern. or the problem will go away by itself... thats useful in determining the source.

Let me know what you can discover, we can go from there.

Phil
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Phil: I need to thank you again for your help. I have been sick. Sunday a week ago I left my home for refuge elsewhere. When I returned home on Monday, sedation(?) occurred to the extent that disorientated so badly that I could not think to call out on phone etc for help. But my daughter checked in on me that day. My speech was slurred. She asked if I had been drinking. I replied "no" and asked her to stay with me.She mentioned that she would keep checking on me and she did so. The problem is that I do not know the origination to the sedation problem. It needs to be discovered. I need to recuperate from the problems that are occurring. But need to tell you these truths. Thanks for your help and I intend to have cameras from a good security company. thanks again. You have helped the most.

Expert:  Phil replied 1 year ago.
Hello again.

It may be a toxic mold problem, that will cause these symptoms, You can buy a mold test kit at most hardware stores for under $10... they are very easy to use and come with easy to follow directions.

Phil

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