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Clayton
Clayton, Mechanic
Category: Heavy Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 754
Experience:  5+ Years at Freightliner, Detroit & MBE Certified, ATD, and Electrical
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Wiring diagram..Freightliner..Trailer relay..dash lights

Customer Question

Need wiring diagram for 2004 Freightliner Columbia. Dash back lighting and trailer lights on all the time. Trailer relay is being grounded with dash dimmer switch, and dash lights are on all the time. Have taken all switches, dash, and relays out of circuits. The only way the dash lights go out is by removing the instrument fuse. Need a wiring diagram ASAP!
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Heavy Equipment
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

Hi, Welcome to Just Answer, I am Clayton. I can help you with this.

 

What are the last 6 of the Vin#. So you need the dash wiring? Anything else?

Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
We still need your Vin number so we can help you out
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I don't have the VIN. I did have Freightliner fax the electrical drawings over for the truck today, and the ones they sent (assuming correct) say "Century Class" in lower right corner. I am not having much luck reading these prints, even with a magnifying glass. I am planning to knock this thing out 7AM tomorrow morning at the shop, so I need some information tonight without the VIN. Any ideas without the prints might help. I have tried most everything I can think of without wiring diagrams. The issue is trailer running llights, dash backlighting, and cab button backlighting are on all the time, even with ignition switch off. The trailer lights can be turned off by sliding the dimmer switch all the way one direction. The only circuit that kills the dash and button backlighting is pulling the instrument light fuse. Their are no fuses being blown, and I have pulled and moved every relay. I hve also pulled every dash switch, radio, CB, inverter, alternator I wire, trailer pigtail and mush more. Come tomorrow morning this thing will be getting rewired if a solution can't be found.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
By the way, I was on a job yesterday waiting for your reply. It never came, and I only saw that you replied just now by reopening my question. No text and no email, both were enabled yesterday when I asked the question. not sure what is going on.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
I have seen something similar to this, and the ignitin was backfeeding. two possibilities come to mind, backfeed or shorted pdm. the century class and the columbia wiring is the same. i can provide u the exact sams drawing in pdf format. you can zoom with if and get a better idea where the wires go. i am currently out to dinner, i will research this more when i get home.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

In the remote PDM behind the driver seat, Take out the OPT/DIAG breaker or fuse out see if it kills the power to those circuits. I want to try that first.

 

Since it is trailer marker related, I am also wondering if something in the trailer wiring is causing this. I will supply you with some wire drawings I have of a 2004 columbia. Also, a FUSE PANEL schematic so you can use it to figure out the wiring.

 

Freightliner drawings are somewhat hard to read. You have to look at the break down and the circuit descriptions, Look at the From and TO chart. That will tell you circuit numbers, and pin locations.

 

1st find your circuit, then go to the From and the To. It helps if you print these out and spread them on a table. Get you a pen and piece of paper and write down pin locations.

 

When you look at the PDM schematic. Pull the instrument fuse again, check power on one those legs, with the ignition off, if you are getting power on one side of the leg, then it is back feeding from somewhere. Click the blue links for the Dash wiring, and the PDM schematic. It will take you to MediaFire, then it will take you to the Download now button, and you will have pop ups. I had to upload it here because the dash wiring was to big to upload it to JustAnswer. I checked the links, and they do work.

 

Dash wiring and PDM wiring.



Edited by Clayton on 1/21/2011 at 5:31 AM EST
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
We have taken the trailer pigtail wiring out of the ciruit, and I can pull the trailer tail light relay while the dash/switch back lighting stays on. I'm pretty sure the problem is inside the cab and is on the back lighting circuit. I originally did some research and was pretty sure it would be a bad BHM, but this truck does not appear to have smart switches/BHM. I have not pulled the ignition switch yet, but I did pull on the ignition switch wiring at the switch and play with the key poistion. Back lighting never so much as flicker. I will try disconnecting the ignition switch and the PDM thingy you mentioned tomorrow morning.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

Ya. Freightliner M2's have BHM(bulkhead module) and smart switches.

 

Also, find the other PDM(fuse panel) behind the driver seat, pull all those fuses and see if it kills anything.

 

Did you get the wiring diagram and the PDM diagram?. They are in the links in the previous posts.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes, received the diagrams. I will try this stuff tomorrow, and let you know what I find. Thanks.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Did you have a chance to work on the truck, let me know, I am curious
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
No, got buried with auotmobile wiring today. Tomorrow morning about 8:30AM I am scheduled to go in to the truck garage and get this figured out. I have been studying the wiring diagrams, and what I see for the dash wiring is a "harness" diagram. Does Freightliner have actual wiring diagrams? I'm trying to figure out the actual circuit and what else may be on it. The PDB diagram is good, but hopefully I won't have to use the harness drawing.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

Unfortunatly, this is the way Freightliner does there diagrams. Very few items have actual schematics like what you are dealing with in the automobile side. I use harness drawings everyday, and I do agree with you, they are kind of tough to read if you do not understand how to use them.

 

 

Some of the older trucks had actual schematics that were lots easier to read.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I am very familiar with how to read harness drawings. I used to trouble shoot prototypes for a car company, and rough hand sketched harness drawings are all that was available pre-production. I just refuse to use harness drawings to trouble shoot a production vehicle, because I know the full electrical diagrams have exist as they are required for production releases.

 

I tried everything we talked about today (plus some), and then I swapped parts and compared PDB circuits with another identical truck. This thing has to go out on a run, so I pulled the cluster fuse, made a fused jumper, and repowered using an empty spot in the PDB that is hot only with the key. The dimmer does not work, but full bright is fine. I need a complete wiring diagram for the dash & switch back lighting. If you don't have, I can get one from Freightliner, but it will take a few weeks to register for a free account. Freightliner has the wiring diagrams because they faxed copies to us, but they are not readable. The detail is good enough to see that they are not harness drawings, but actual wiring diagrams. Let me know if you can get the requested wiring diagram for next week.

 

What other Freightliner trucks would have the same or similiar dash lighting wiring? I am able to get to the M2 Business on the web, but I think as you stated they have the Smart Switches and modules, which makes the wiring much different.

Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

After some digging, I found a schematic, it is most likely the same schematic you got faxed over from Freightliner help desk. I googled a 2004 Columba, and got a VIN to pull this up. The Century Class and the Columbias use the same wiring. M2 is totally different because it is multi-plexed. This is kind of generic because I am going with a different VIN from your truck, but it should be the same, the optional items in the diagrams use dashes instead of solid lines. So this should get you somewhere.

 

Entire Schematic and Interior Lighting Schematic

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Clayton, U Da Man! This is exactly what I need. Thanks a bunch. Wish I would have thought to get the VIN today, but forgot. I am going to study these prints and when the truck comes back (hopefully some time this week) we'll be ready to fix it right!

Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Thank you!. let me know what u find
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Just checking up, I am curious as to what you have found
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
The truck is out on a run maybe for another day or two, but from looking at the latest dash diagram you sent I'm pretty set on the clock being the culprit. The clock has a fused power feed hot all the time to it, and then the dash.button backlighting circuit feeds the clock back lighting. So if my dash and buttom backlighting stays on all the time, even with the dimmer switch out of the circuit, it has to be getting power through the clock. I'm still trying to understand how the trailer light relay is being turned on and off by the dimmer switch, but somehow I think the clock voltage backfeeds through the dimmer switch resistance(depending on dimmer position), and activates the trailer relay pull in coil. This theory explains for sure the backlighting being on all the time, and why a good dimmer switch with the headlights on causes the backlighting to flicker, but not dim. It has voltage on both sides the switch, and it does not pop a fuse because of the dimmer resistance.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

Sounds like a very good theory, and this would be the 1st time I have ever seen this on one of these truck. So to prove this, you would pull the clock out of the circuit and see if everything starts working correctly?

 

If I helped you out in anyway, please accept my answer so I get credit.

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

That's my plan as soon as the truck returns.

 

I am going to accept your answer because you helped me tremendously by supplying the wiring diagrams. I am just waiting to verify the issue, to be sure I don't need anything else from you.

Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Not a problem. I am interested to find out what it is.

I studied the schematic for a few mins, I am wondering if the Dimmer switch lost its ground path.

Edited by Clayton on 1/27/2011 at 8:34 AM EST
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Clayton, back to the drawing board. My clock theory is bad because the truck does not have a clock.

 

Your suggestion of dimmer switch losing ground. I have completely pulled the dimmer switch out of the circuit and all the dash/button back lighting remains on with the key off. I also installed the dimmer switch in another truck, and verified the switch functions properly. Again, the only fuse or relay anywhere on the truck that causes the back lighting to go out is the "Instrument Cluster" 10amp fuse. Until we can figure out what is going on, I pulled this fuse, ran fused jumper wire to a empty fuse spot in the PDB that is hot with the ignition. This works fine except the dimmer does not work, always full bright. I would like to figure this out, and will review the wiring diagram you supplied again.

Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
I am going to look into this more later on tonite, we can figure this out. I still think we are getting back feed from somewhere.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I agree, and per the diagram was pretty sure the back feed was coming through the clock. I don't see any other component on the output side of the dimmer where the back feed could be coming from. I have even had the cluster disconnected, and the button back lighting remains on, as does the abilit to turn the trailer lights on with dimmer position.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

Disconnect the bulkhead connector for all the chassis wiring on the firewall, I think it might be the middle one, you will see all the heavy 10-12 guage wires in it.. See if your instrument cluster back lighting goes out. This will eliminate the cab from the chassis.

 

I am wondering if you are getting backfeed through the trailor wiring, not the pigtail. I have seen this wiring get rubbed and corrode, then cause problems especially with road salt and stuff.

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

That was my first thought. We can pull the trailer lighting relay out and the trailer lights go out, but the dash/backlighting stays on. We disconnected the trailer pigtail, then we disconnected the truck pigtail down on frame before it comes into the truck. The back feed has to be inside the truck somewhere I think. I even went through the interior dome lights to see if someone put the wrong bulb in and maybe we had a circuit crossed up, nothing. The way I'm reading the wiring diagram, if you pull the dimmer switch out of the circuit, the dash lights/back lighting should go out because their power comes through the dimmer switch. Somehow the circuit is staying hot and bypassing the dimmer switch, that is also why the dimmer does not work.

Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

I know you don't want to do this, but swap out the fuse panel(relay panel). I have seen them short out. The one on the passenger side is the one I am referring to.

 

Did you say you disconnected the fuse panel behind the driver seat?. Completely taken that out of the circuit by unplugging all of the connectors to it?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
No, I pulled all the fuses and relays out of the PDB behind the drivers seat, including the Diag/Opt fuse you suggested. We had the passenger side PDB loose, wiggled around, but did not remove it. I also pulled the B+ feed to the passenger PDB, and that killed the back lighting. I don't think the problem is at the PDB. The Instrument cluster fuse kills the back lighting when pulled and is supposed to be hot all the time, like it is. I don't see any other fused or relayed circuits that are feeding/backfeeding to the backlighting side of the dimmer switch. I pulled every fuse and relay, and the only fuse that kills the backlighting is the Instrument Cluster fuse. I don't believe their is a bypass circuit around the dimmer switch, so the back lighting should go out when the dimmer switch is pulled out of the circuit, it does not. Remember, the dimmer switch is a variable resister to ground and an off switch for the back lighting, so all backlight voltage must pass through the dimmer switch in series. No switch = open circuit to back lighting and no back lighting. Somewhere the back lighting is getting power past the dimmer switch portion of the circuit. This to me explains why the backfed voltage does not blow a fuse or circuit breaker, because it is an indirect short with the dimmer resistance in the circuit.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
How much confidence do you have that this wiring diagram is 100% correct for the 2004 Columbia I'm working on? I can get you the VIN if their is any question. Some parts of the diagram look like what I have seen on the truck, but others, like the PDB fuses labeling/sequence look different than what is on the truck.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
I need a VIN to compare drawings.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK, I will try to get the VIN tomorrow. Thanks.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Ya, please, maybe we can figure this out.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
How about the last six of the VIN. M21901
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

Looks like they are very similar. I will upload these that is directly from your VIN, and you can decide. This schematic also shows a clock in the overhead. Freightliner uses the same harness on basically all there trucks, so it is possible the connector might be in there. Maybe got some water intrusion or something and is corroding across the terminals. These should pull up what you need. If you need anything else, let me know while we have a VIN #

 

CLICK HERE

 

and CLICK HERE

Clayton, Mechanic
Category: Heavy Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 754
Experience: 5+ Years at Freightliner, Detroit & MBE Certified, ATD, and Electrical
Clayton and 4 other Heavy Equipment Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK. Did not look in the overhead for a clock, maybe that is where it is at. Thanks.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Just checking up, what have we found out
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Nothing yet. I did not get to the truck shop today, nor do I know if the truck was available this weekend. I promise we will get this done this week. Been pretty busy here this week with snowmobiles. Everyone wants them running like yesterday because of all the snow we have.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Ya, we had alot here too. Not enough to keep a snow mobile though..lol Let me know
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Just checking up. I hope I helped you enough to get an accept out of this, I am here for more questions if you need anymore help
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I have not had a chance to look at it again, but you sent the diagram so, we are good for now. Thanks.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
Alright, Thanks. I appreciate the accept.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Clayton, where are you getting these wiring harnesses from? I need one for a 2001 International Eagle 9400i radio, including speaker wiring. I have searched all over the web to buy the diagrams, but the only service I see is Mitchell, which is close to $400/month to subscribe to. I want to buy all the diagrams for 2003-2004 Freightliner Columbia, and this International one. Please advise. Thanks.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

I don't have any international ones in my collection, I have quite a few Freightliner ones, and a few peterbilt wiring diagrams.

 

I collected a few wiring diagrams when I worked on the trucks. Peterbilt would email me or fax me some wiring diagrams, I had connections there. Of course I have connections at Freightliner as well.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I would be interested in buying the wiring diagrams you have for 2003-2004 Freightliner Columbia that show the AC systems. I will be responsible for repairing the AC systems on these trucks this summer, and would like to have the wiring diagrams in hand.

 

Any idea where I can go for the International radio diagram, dealer?

Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

You might try the dealer for the radio diagram for the international.

 

You can pay me through giving me a bonus if you want to do it that way.

 

HVAC Electrical problems on these trucks I know like the back of my hand.

 

Here is the Main and the Auxilliary HVAC wiring diagrams for the VIN you provided in this question earlier.

 

CLICK HERE.

 

B-Pillar Fuse panel Schematic

 

CLICK HERE

 

Here is the sleeper wiring diagram

 

CLICK HERE

 

that should be all of what you need. If you have to replace the Cab Blend air harness, the one that goes to the actuators, and the controller, it comes as one unit. What I have seen is the blower motor connector corrodes and melts sometimes. You can't get the pigtail for the blower motor buy itself, the whole harness is less than 100 bucks, and it is not bad to change.

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Thanks Clayton. Yep, I did get the radio drawing from the Dealer earlier today.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
How do I do the bonus? When I hit "Accept Answer" the only option I see is to pay for a second answer $18, no bomus option.
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

There should be a "Bonus" button on your question page. I read the help section and it said you can leave a bonus at a later date.

 

Here is the link to the help page.

 

http://ww2.justanswer.com/help/categories/what-if-expert-does-really-fantastic-job

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Clayton, I need to purchase a wiring diagram for the complete AC system on a 2002 International 9400i. Please advise if you can come up with this diagram, and name your price. Thanks. tXXXXX@XXXXXX.XXX
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.
I do not have any international wiring diagrams. I have tons of freightliner. And a few peterbilt diagrams
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Do you think Peterbilt AC wiring would be same or similar to International? Any idea where I might be able to get the International drawing?
Expert:  Clayton replied 3 years ago.

I am not that familier with the international, however, does'nt international use a Red Dot A/C system?

 

Western Star trucks use Red Dot A/C systems, and I do have some Western Star Diagrams.

 

It might be the same schematic as a 2002 Western Star with Red Dot A/C.

 

 

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Not familar with the red dot system. International uses a York/Tecumseh style vertical piston compressor (looks to be the same unit used on older Ford automobiles). From what I can see electrically, their is only a high side pressure switch (has red dot on rear of switch), and a couple HVAC relays in the dash.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Clayton, need some help or a wiring diagram for the DRL on a 2004 Western Star 4900 series. Driver wants the DRL disabled, as they are on whenever the parking brake is off. I was told their is a dedicated fuse or relay, but their is other stuff on all the circuits for DRL. I believe the DRL are run by the truck ECU, and the ECU is obsolete, so can't be reprogrammed to disable DRL. I have also tried removing the wires on parking brake solenoid, no good. If I had a good wiring diagram, I'm sure I could figure out a disable procedure short of rewiring the truck. Please advise ASAP, as I would like this information for tomorrow. Thanks.
Expert:  Clayton replied 2 years ago.
You might want to open a new question, and send me a personal request and I can get the info if u provide a vin.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Clayton, I have a + balance in my JustAnswer account so you will get paid. Not sure how to open a new question and have it go to you without losing our conversation thus far. The VIN on this 2004 Western Star 4900 series is 5KJJAEDE64PM55567 and we want a DRL disable procedure or a wiring diagram that shows the complete DRL circuit so I can devise a plan to disable them. Thanks.
Expert:  Clayton replied 2 years ago.
I will work on this , this evening, I think the procedure is simple if I remember right.
Expert:  Clayton replied 2 years ago.

Here is the daytime running light disable procedure.

 

CLICK HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I already had this exact drawing from the Internet, but my drawing only mentioned years 2007-2010, so I thought that is why the connector locations and colors did not match. The document you sent says was updated 2005, so it must cover the 2004 we are working on. My ECU has a black connector with only three wires, a white connector, and another white connector, all three connectors directly connect into ECU. I don't see the connector on a pigtail that the drawing shows, and I don't see any wires labelled like the document suggests. I guess I'll have to look at it again and see if I can find the wires by label. I really can't pull the wires based on pin location because the connector colors don't match, so I have not idea which connector, unless the pin location is unigue to a connector. Example, if one conector is all A's, then I might be able to nail it down. I just don't understand why the connector colors and locations don't match.
Expert:  Clayton replied 2 years ago.
This service bulletin applies to that vin you gave me. It even talks about western star trucks built since Feb, 2002. So this should apply to yours. I will look for s schematic

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