Ask a Heavy Equipment Repair Mechanic for Answers ASAP
Hello JohnnyFixit. Thank you for your reply as to my TL 140 Hydralics ceasing to work every 1 to 5 minutes. I examined the wiring harness where it penetrates the fold down cab but could find no damaged wiring. Cranked up the machine, ran for a few minutes, stopped. Waited about 5 minutes, cranked it up, ran for about 5 minutes. Then I had to wait about 10 minutes before a restart of the machine allowed the hydralics to work long enough to get it back on level ground! So, while I thought you probaly had the answer, its acting so squirrly, no luck. I have a proximity switch ordered in case thats it. And the dealership suggested I change the hydralic filters which are also on order, but the machine has 1300 hours on it and I changed all hydralic filtes and fluid at 1000 hours. There other suggestion was to order the 'brain', little box screwed to the side of the engine compartment, but I would hate to order this and it no be the problem and I bet that part is pricy! Have you any other suggestions as to how to trouble shoot this problem? Or prehaps I should wait for the new proximity switch and see if that is what is defective? I've no idea how this switch works, magnetic, etc. Is there any kind of automatic shutoff built into the machine if the something is wrong with the hydralics such as clogged filters, etc? In any case, I am still down, so if you've another suggestion please foward!
Thank you. Miles Colcock
Hello JohnnyFixit. Only the hydralics shut down, engine continues to run just fine.
I am getting no lights when it happens.
What's weird, to me, is that the hydralics always work when you first crank up the
TL140 or, so far, anytime it has been shut off for over about 10 minutes ,or less.
But then, about 5 minutes into using it, down go the hydralics. In about 5 or 10 minutes, they will work again for a short period of time. This does not seen consistent with a bad connection somewhere to me? But the machine is dusty inside and I recently gave it a good spring cleaning inside and out.
So, if they is nothing that makes the hydralics shut off automatically like clogged filters, then ??? I am wondering if the proximity switch heats up somehow after the machine is started and thats why I just get 5 minutes of work out of it, then have to let it sit for a bit before I can get another 5 mintues of work out of it. If you can come up with anything please foward it to me. Maybe the switch will come in today and I can try that. I am not sure how good my wiring bypass of the switch was, but I did unplug the proximity switch and place a wire across the plug connectors, and the hydralics worked, again for about 10 minutes before shutting down.
Hello Johnny Fixit
From your last email talking about the generator putting out 13.9 volts, I recall that I
did not tighten the generator belt when I serviced the TL 140 and it was a little slacker than the manual specifies, so I tightend it and.. ran for about an hour before the hydraulics shut down! Oh well. Thought that might be it! The serial number of the
Takeuhci is 21403096. I will put on the new Proximity Switch Monday, as I expect to get it then and prehaps is the problem. So, if you wish I will write you with the result of this just in case the problem is the Proximty Switch.
I have no skills with a voltmeter, but I'm sure I can find someone around here that has one and knows how to use it to check the various relays.
From your letters I am hearing that the problem must be or is most likely something to do with an electrical connection or relay that has gone bad? And not anything like clogged hydralics or something like that would automatically stop the hydraulics from working. Thanks for you help. I will let you know if the new Proximity Switch fixes the problem. When I purchased this machine, I expected to learn how to service it as I went along, as they is no dealer nearby, it is on my 'farm' and I have no way to haul the TL 140 as it is for personal use on this peice of property! So, I will continue to work through this snafu!
Thanks again for your help to date.
I replaced the proximty switch. This was not the problem.
I replaced hydraulic fluid and both filters plus cleaned the strainer. This took about 13 gals, the entire system holds about 20 gals, but 7 do not drain out. The inline
filter by the hydraulic pump was black in color, so looked rather dirty, but seems to
be most discolored. Other filter and strainer looked clean. Also replaced the coolant water.
Then when I cranker her up and raised the bucket, the hydraulics stopped for just a second, then began working again. This is not like it was doing. Prior to changing the hydraulic fluid and filters, hydraulics would stop and I would have to turn off the machine for 5 minutes or so before they would work again for a few minutes.
So, I took it for test drive. Ran find for about 45 minutes, then once again the hydraulics stopped working but only for about one second, then began working again. Its now like a little 'lurch' in the hydraulics, then back to work. It is now raining all weekend so i will take it for another test work session when the weather clears.
I have never gotten a warning light on the hydraulics. (but I suppose the light could be broken?) So now I am not sure! It might work fine from now on. Is it possible a peice of grit or something could cause the hydraulics to act like that? Changing out the hydraulic fluid and filters has definetly made a big difference except for the little hydraulic hicup every now and then so far.
So I will work it and see what happens. I am concerned that they might be something wrong with the hydraulics and don;t want to damage them by working it some with the little hiccup on occasion? while i test it a bit?
I am still going to open up the light console and fuses and give everything a good air cleaining/dusting first chance I get.
So I no longer think the problem is electrical, rather could I have had clogged hydraulics? Prehaps the hiccup is clearing the lines? I did bleed the air plug above the pump and do the little arm exercise in the manual to bleed air from the hydraulics. Could air in the hydraulics have been the problem? When I changed the fluid previuosly, the dealer said bleeding the air from the plug above the pump was not neccesary so I did not do this last hydraulic change.
Thanks for your help. If you know of anything I should watch out for let me know.
Hello Johnny Fixit, Miles Colcock here with the TL 140 with no hydraulics.
I borrowed a 'brain' the little computer box that mounts on the wall of the rear
engine compartment as the dealer keeps thinking that is the problem, but no luck.
Same propblem. The machine runs about 30 seconds to 3 minutes before the
hydralics shut down. Just as if you have raised the safety bar. So i am at a loss of
what to try next.
I have visually checked the electical wiring and can find no worn wires.
I noticed a little 'pressure switch' located at the back of the hydraulic pumps
(I think). Could this little switch effect the hydraulics shutting down if it was bad?
I know you suggested I have someone with a ohnmeter check all the wiring and I
not yet done this. So if you've any future suggestions, please suggest them!
I would really like to know how the 'bypass connector' you refer to above can be bypassed, so I can run the machine with the lock out system disconnected to rule out hydraulic side issues! Can you elaborate on this?
I pulled a little bonehead move and took out the ignition switch to clean it of debire
plus all the connections in this area, and marked the wires with a sharpie so I could reconnect the ignition switch after cleaning it out, key was hard to turn, and managed to wash off my marks! So now I don't know which wires to put back where! But I will going over to the dealer this week to return the borrowed brain box, and hopefully he can show me which wires go where. I have 2 yellow wires, one red one black and one black and white, for a total of 5 and 6 connectors on the ignition switch which are labeled with things like R1 Rb, etc and so forth.
I continue to fool with it! I suspect it is something simple, just don't know what yet.
Thank you JohnnyFixit. You have given me several things to try.
One question, when yo
u talk about the relays and panel in front of my
feet do you mean the 'fuses'? Or panel in front of the 'fuses'?
I have been taking apart the fuse panel and control light panel
and cleaning everything well. Yes, dust is on all connections everywhere.
I like the Takeuchi but it is difficult to keep clean or to clean after use!
As far a dirt build up on all eletrical plugs everywhere, but they do seem clean
inside the connectors.
I am aware of the safety issues with the machine and am careful when using
it not to hurt myself.
While I realize the backup horn is most likely a legal requirement (safety)
I would love to disconnect it as I use this machine on a farm with no one else
around and the horn is annoying. I noticed a 20 amp fuse labeled horn and I
was planning on removing it after I get the machine running. In you letter you say this controls both the horn and pre heat relay. Is a 'relay' the what I would call a 'fuse'?
Hello Johhny Fixit, Miles Colcock with TL140 here.
I got dash parts in, cleaned everything, put it back together and also cleaned and swaped the 2 relays. Bingo, No more hydraulic shutdown problem.
However, I now have a new problem which I would like to get you to work thru with me but since its new I need to pay anouther question fee. If I go to ask.com and ask do you know if they is anyway to get you on the other end of the question?
The new problem is everynow and then, sooner or later, the engines shuts down like it ran out of gas. Seems to run an hour or 2, then shut down.
I drained the fuel tank some, saw no debrie, cleaned the water seperator, saw no water, washed the inline fuel filter in deisel, and plan on ordering a new fuel filter and inline filter today. Check water level and it's fine. So, any other suggestions other than replacing the filters? And how would I pay you to ask you this!
Not sure if I correctly asked you the new question about the engine shutting down so you would be paid. Let me know if you know if I did and if not I will try again.
Miles Colcock TL 140
Hello Johnny Fixit,
Ok, on to my new TL140 glitch. After I changed the positions of the 2 identical relays in front of your feet, the hydraulic shutting down every few minutes problem went away. But now the entire engine shuts down about 15 minutes after I start the machine in the mornings. This has gotten progressively worse over the last few work sessions. First time the machine ran about half a day, then engine shut down, 2nd time about 2 hours, 3rd time about 1 hour, today about 15 minutes.
I replaced all fuel filters, drained a few gallons from the tank, cleaned the water seperator in case fuel or filters were clogged. I saw no evidence of any debrie or water in the fuel. Doing this did not fix the engine shutting down problem.
I have a new relay for the one I simply moved over ordered since prehaps this relay is bad but you had said this relay controlled the horn and pre-heat glowplugs, so I don't know that even if this relay is bad that it will fix the problem, but the problem did start right after I swapped the 2 relays positions.
So,while I wait for this relay if you have any suggestions as to how to trouble shoot this problem, please tell me. I would be curious to know what things will automatically shut down the engine, such as low coolant, which I have checked.
While I can't say for sure when the engine shuts down it kinda purrs to a stop, like its not getting fuel, but this might be how it sounds when it shutsdown anyway. Can't say that I've listened to it closely when turning if off in the past.
Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX
Well, I checked the various fuel lines as you suggested. The Full pump, little round tin can shaped part below the radiator. It is pumping fuel. The water seperator is also clear as fuel leaves it. I could not get to the connection of the fuel line to the side of the enging, the injectors. I checked each item then started the Takeuchi but it did not help. Then I took the top of the water seperator, to look for blockage, found nothing, started the machine and it ran for 2 day. So, I thought it might be fixed by tinkering with it, while I did nothing that I was aware of. Now its down again, same problem.
There is an 'air gap' of about 4 inches in both fuel lines leaving the water seperator. These lines are semi-transparent and one can see the fuel in them, and they is no fuel for the first few inches down. Is this normal? I'm wondering if air might be getting into the lines somehow. After running for 2 days just fine, the engine shut down, Started it back up, got about 15 minutes, shut down, started it back up got about 5 minutes, shut down, started, got 30 seconds of running. Let is sit for awhile, cranked it and ran for the barn since I'm working in a flood plain. Got it to its home but thats it!
I did not check it at the spin on fuel filter. The spin on filter, at least I hope thats the fuel filter, is located above and/or near the injection pump of the right side of the engine facing the machine from the rear on my machine and I get to it through the rear door.. I replaced this filter the other day, it was 'slightly' larger in diamter than the one I took off but the gasket seemed the same. I will double check this. I certainly hope I did not not put the wrong filter on the wrong place. I will also try to check the line at this point.
I did fill the tank completely as you said to.
I was all wet on the 'air gap' in the line thing. The line has a tube inside a tube and I was seeing the water or whatever trapped between the clear outside tube and the inner fuel line tube! Shows my mechanic ignorance.
I assume that it could not be related to the relays that I swapped positions on? Since switching these 2 relays appears to have fixed the hydraulics shutting down thing, and then this problem started, I was just wondering if a bad or partly bad relay could have created this problem?
The fuel feeder pump, little tin can thing, is pumping fuel, but it is not a powerful flow, but I assume this is normal.
I will check the spin filter and look around under the cab. The oil and coolant light as well at the battery light blink when the key is in the '
'on' posistion, but do not light up or blink when the machine is running. I am not sure if these warning lights are to be heeded only when the machine is running or also when the key is in the 'on' positon' only.
The machine runs longer before shutting down first thing in the morning after sitting all night, then once it shuts down once, it will only run say a minute before shutting down again and again. This morning it only ran about 10 minutes the first time, so this is getting worse quickly too. I don't know if the machine warming up is causing it to shut down or if maybe fuel fills the lines overnight, and this is why it runs for a bit when first cranked up daily before misbehaving.
Since it runs awhile what are you thinking? Do you think a clog may be slowing down the fuel until it looses it prime? Or something like that? The fact that it sometimes runs a while and sometimes doesn't mystifies me.
Anyway, I will give it another try today. If I can't get it running today or tommorow if you have any futher suggestions, I will try to find a local mechanic as I need to be working it badly!
Thanks and sincerly, Miles
The way the spin on fuel filter is mounted, again I could not get to the hose connection without doing something rather tough, but I did unscrew the fuel filter, (it was full) and and turn the key on and fuel aplenty pumped out of the base where that the fuel filter screws onto. So fuel is getting to this location!
Put the filter back on, 20 seconds with the key on to bleed the air as per the owner's manual, fired it up, ran about 30 seconds and quit.
At first I felt it was a fuel delivery problem, but now.. I don't have a clue!
I drained about a pint or so of oil to get the level between full and add just to check this, no luck and again checked the water level carefully. No luck here either.
Could I have another relay or switch problem possibly that is shutting down the system?
Curiously enough, when I ordered a new relay for the 2 we swapped slots for the hydraulics problem, I got the stop solenoid relay instead due to telephone miscommunitcation for the parts order. ( This relay and the one next to it are also indentical parts as are the 2 relays you had me swap position with, is how I accidentialy got the wrong one when I ordered the first relay) I thought about replacing it since I accidentially got this part, but was going to return it, but now I will put it in since I have it. (I assume this will as good as the wire jumper way of checking this relay) I got in the corrrect relay for the eariler swap out yesterday so will also put this in the morning.
Yesterday when I was at the dealers to pick up the first relay, I tried again to get one of their mechanics to listen to my Taky's symptons and found one who spent some time on the problem. He asked if the machine was throttling correctly when it is running and could I hear the pump clicking, I said yes, and he said that pretty much rules out a problem with the fuel delivery sytem etc. His suggestion was the low water coolant system detector, (ground it to the frame as you are having me 'jump' relays/switches) , to check it, and his 2nd suggestion was to visually check the coil or solenoid that is mounted on the fuel injector pump which has a little arm that you can see move back and forth which shuts the fuel on and off to the injectors. So I will replace 2 relays today, since thats the easy thing to do, and let you know the results. My machine has the coolant sensor a little futher down than right at the filler cap, which I understand was a design modification so the coolant is not so sensitve to a low level as the earlier version. I'm told to open the cab or whatever it takes so I can watch the 'coil' with the armature on it that shuts off the fuel and let the machine idle until it shuts down and see the coil is activating the armature and be careful as the coil gets very hot and not to touch it! Do you concurr if the relays don't fix the problem? My snag here is figureing out where this coil is and what it looks like! But I think I can figure this out! (confidence is high!) Thank you. Miles
Hello Johnny, Well I replaced both relays this morning, cranked the machine, let it warm up about 5 minutes, then drove away, got about 40' and she quit. So I unplugged the low coolant sensor, stuck a wire in the female part of the plug and grounded it to the frame as suggested by local mechanic, got about 100' and she quit. I noticed that when the coolant sensor is unplugged I do get a warning light, so I suppose the warning lights are working. I noticed that it does not seem to quit when just idleing (warming up) so I plugged the coolant sensor back in, and let it just sit their idling for about 10 minutes, then I lower the safety bar and let it idle a bit. Then I opened up the throttle some and let it idle some more. Kept running so then I got on it and started just moving along pushing a wee bit of dirt along, got about a 100 feet and it quit. Then I cranked it up and let it idle another 5 or 10 minutes and it did not quit. Then I got on it and started moving and did not get far and it quit. I need to run this 'idle' verses' moving test say for about 30 minutes to be more sure, but if the machine will not quit when just sitting there idleing and will only quit when moving, does that tell you anything? Got rained out so will 'tinker' with the coil solinoid amature thing later if I can spot the sucker. I think I will have to raise the cab to see it in action if it can be seen, so need a no rain day. But in the meantime, if the machine will run on idle and not run when being used (moved) does that say anything? All I could think of was maybe a loose wire somewhere jiggling around. Sometimes it will start right back up after shutting down and sometimes it won't. When I left if this morning it seemed to be getting worse about not re-cranking right away. There is a loud click when you turn the key on but I cannot see what is causing this click from the rear door.
The sage continues.
Hello Johnny. This morning I tackled the Takeuchi again. I was going to 'jump' the stop relay we talked about but: This relay has 2 plugs going to it. One plug has a white wire with a green strip and a black wire with a red stripe feeding it. The other plug has a white wire with a smigen of red on it and a black wire with a smigen of red on it. So I do not know which wires to 'jump'. I saw no white and yellow wire. I am looking at the relay of which is the second one in or the one towards the center of the panel, next to the other 3 relays which are of same size but different from the 2, of which one we wish to 'jump'. Once again as the machine tends to do, it ran for about 30 minutes this morning before the shutdown over and over thing began. I opened the cab and found the rod which turns the fuel on and off the injectors. When I put the key to 'on' it would engage, then unengage. I reached in and held it engaged, cranked the machine, and it fires right up. Then when I let go, the rod disengages and shuts down the machine. Then it stayed engaged, so I closed the cab on the hopes that maybe it was just stuck, but did not get far before the machine shut down. So, with my limited knowledge, I would say that this rod is 'unengaging' and shutting off fuel to the injectors, but whether the 'coil' that controls this rod is bad or I am getting a bad signal to it, I do not know! Again, I would like to 'jump' the relay as you recommend but can find no white and yellow wire to jump?
Sometimes I kill the machine by pushing to hard on a tree, etc. I assume I am just bogging the engine down when this occurs? Is there any system that detects and shuts the machine down when overloaded? Just curious about this. I am not over loading the machine in any way for the current shut down problem.
Hello Johnny, The plot thickens. This morning I got a 12Volt Light Tester to see if I was getting current to the Stop Relay. This relay has 2 plugs going to it and each plug has 2 wires each. The way I understand it is that the plug with the 2 larger wires is a circut feeding from the rear of the machine, and if closed at the relay, it shuts down the engine by engaging the stop engine solinoid mounted on the fuel injector pump by a rod that moves back and forth. I can see this rod moving with the can open, or what I think is the rod.
Anyway, With the Key 'on' I could get a power reading on the tester to one leg of big wire plug. I could not get a reading on either of the wires on the little plug. They way I understand this relay works is if it gets a signal from the little wire plug, it will somehow break the big wire circut and engage the stop engine solinoid.
I jumped the big wire plug and could get a reading on both legs of the plug.
But then I had some bad luck and I can't get the engine to start period today. First time this has happened!
Watching the stop engine coil, if I turn the key to the on position with the relay jumped or not jumped, the stop engine solinoid moves the arm with a loud click, but then the arm snaps back in about a second. I tried holding it open, but engine would still not crank at all. So now I am more confused. It looks to me like the stop engine solinoid is bad, but I'm not sure and thats a $450.00 part so I hate to change it out if I'm wrong. And since I could not get a power reading going to the relay up front from either of the little wire plug legs, I wonder if the problem is not upstream of this relay? Anyway... If that makes any sense and you have any suggestions please let me know!
Hi Johnny. I was just about to also decide to send it to the shop, when a friend of a freind gave me the number of a guy who services equipment a bit on the side. He came out and got it to start by unscrewing one of the metal fuel lines at a cylinder, bleeding a little air I think, then checked relays, etc. and right before he also decided the stop solinoid might be bad, he was checking to see how hard it would be to put a new one on in the field, and found a connection to this part, at the part, that was.. loose. So with a 'push and a click' at this electrical connection, back up running just fine! A loose connection all along at the solinoid itself. (on the ground side I think it was)