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JohnnyFixIt
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Category: Heavy Equipment
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Experience:  4 years Rental industry Technician, 8 years Farm Fleet technician, 10 years Landscape equipment
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Hello. I have a Takeuchi TL 140. The hydraulics come to a

Resolved Question:

Hello.
I have a Takeuchi TL 140. The hydraulics come to a halt about every 5 or 10 minutes and I have to turn it off, wait about 5 mintues, then crank it back up and it will again run about 5 to 10 minutes before the hydraulics stop again. This problem has gotten progressively worse over the last few months. Day before yesterday I adjusted the proximity switch on the saftey bar and it ran all day, no problem. Today back to not working again. Tried bybassing the proximity switch, but the same problem is occuring. I am Frustated! Can you help me solve this problem!!! Need to be working it.
Miles
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Heavy Equipment
Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Lift the cab and install safety pin in rear by hood. TheTL140 has a problem with the harness going to the safety bar proximity switch melting on the muffler. Once you lift the cab a you can see the harness in plastic wire loom goin up into the cab. I would check this.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello JohnnyFixit. Thank you for your reply as to my TL 140 Hydralics ceasing to work every 1 to 5 minutes. I examined the wiring harness where it penetrates the fold down cab but could find no damaged wiring. Cranked up the machine, ran for a few minutes, stopped. Waited about 5 minutes, cranked it up, ran for about 5 minutes. Then I had to wait about 10 minutes before a restart of the machine allowed the hydralics to work long enough to get it back on level ground! So, while I thought you probaly had the answer, its acting so squirrly, no luck. I have a proximity switch ordered in case thats it. And the dealership suggested I change the hydralic filters which are also on order, but the machine has 1300 hours on it and I changed all hydralic filtes and fluid at 1000 hours. There other suggestion was to order the 'brain', little box screwed to the side of the engine compartment, but I would hate to order this and it no be the problem and I bet that part is pricy! Have you any other suggestions as to how to trouble shoot this problem? Or prehaps I should wait for the new proximity switch and see if that is what is defective? I've no idea how this switch works, magnetic, etc. Is there any kind of automatic shutoff built into the machine if the something is wrong with the hydralics such as clogged filters, etc? In any case, I am still down, so if you've another suggestion please foward!

Thank you. Miles Colcock

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Is the engine shutting down, or just the hydraulics? Another problem these machines have is the coolant level sensor in the upper radiator hose will fail or get an air bubble or you are just a little low on coolant and will shut it down. The proximity switch is magnetic sensing the nearness of the safety bar. Are you getting any lights at all on the console when it shuts down? If it is just the hydraulics shutting off you can you should troubleshoot the wiring harness from the proximity sensor plug down through cab into the engine compartment with an ohmmeter. I have not seen the safety control module go bad just wiring issues and the switch itself. And dirty or loose connections.And to bypass the switch jumper the plug with a wire, I think you already did this. I will check on some other info tomorrow.

Edited by JohnnyFixIt on 4/22/2010 at 12:09 AM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello JohnnyFixit. Only the hydralics shut down, engine continues to run just fine.

I am getting no lights when it happens.

What's weird, to me, is that the hydralics always work when you first crank up the

TL140 or, so far, anytime it has been shut off for over about 10 minutes ,or less.

But then, about 5 minutes into using it, down go the hydralics. In about 5 or 10 minutes, they will work again for a short period of time. This does not seen consistent with a bad connection somewhere to me? But the machine is dusty inside and I recently gave it a good spring cleaning inside and out.

So, if they is nothing that makes the hydralics shut off automatically like clogged filters, then ??? I am wondering if the proximity switch heats up somehow after the machine is started and thats why I just get 5 minutes of work out of it, then have to let it sit for a bit before I can get another 5 mintues of work out of it. If you can come up with anything please foward it to me. Maybe the switch will come in today and I can try that. I am not sure how good my wiring bypass of the switch was, but I did unplug the proximity switch and place a wire across the plug connectors, and the hydralics worked, again for about 10 minutes before shutting down.

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
There are 3 relays used in this system that could also be at fault. One of the relays gets a signal from the generator on the engine. Check your generator output at the battery make sure it is 13.9 volts or higher. Also any one of these relays could hold for awhile then fail. Also the lever lock solenoid could hold for awhile and fail.How capable are you with a voltmeter? I don't how much more in depth you would like to get. I would also like the serial number of the machine.Also one quick thing, access the fuses and make sure everything is clean, no dirt inside the connections. Blow it out with compressed air or electrical contact cleaner.

Edited by JohnnyFixIt on 4/23/2010 at 12:01 AM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny Fixit

From your last email talking about the generator putting out 13.9 volts, I recall that I

did not tighten the generator belt when I serviced the TL 140 and it was a little slacker than the manual specifies, so I tightend it and.. ran for about an hour before the hydraulics shut down! Oh well. Thought that might be it! The serial number of the

Takeuhci is 21403096. I will put on the new Proximity Switch Monday, as I expect to get it then and prehaps is the problem. So, if you wish I will write you with the result of this just in case the problem is the Proximty Switch.

I have no skills with a voltmeter, but I'm sure I can find someone around here that has one and knows how to use it to check the various relays.

From your letters I am hearing that the problem must be or is most likely something to do with an electrical connection or relay that has gone bad? And not anything like clogged hydralics or something like that would automatically stop the hydraulics from working. Thanks for you help. I will let you know if the new Proximity Switch fixes the problem. When I purchased this machine, I expected to learn how to service it as I went along, as they is no dealer nearby, it is on my 'farm' and I have no way to haul the TL 140 as it is for personal use on this peice of property! So, I will continue to work through this snafu!

Thanks again for your help to date.

MIles Colcock

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Ok sounds good, let me know. If any hydraulics were being plugged there is a warning light on the console that would pop on, this light will come on also when you start it and itscold outside then go off. I will look at the machine manual as there is a conector to bypass the safety system but i have never used it so I dont know where it is, plus its unsafe to leave it like that.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny Fixit

I replaced the proximty switch. This was not the problem.

I replaced hydraulic fluid and both filters plus cleaned the strainer. This took about 13 gals, the entire system holds about 20 gals, but 7 do not drain out. The inline

filter by the hydraulic pump was black in color, so looked rather dirty, but seems to

be most discolored. Other filter and strainer looked clean. Also replaced the coolant water.

Then when I cranker her up and raised the bucket, the hydraulics stopped for just a second, then began working again. This is not like it was doing. Prior to changing the hydraulic fluid and filters, hydraulics would stop and I would have to turn off the machine for 5 minutes or so before they would work again for a few minutes.

So, I took it for test drive. Ran find for about 45 minutes, then once again the hydraulics stopped working but only for about one second, then began working again. Its now like a little 'lurch' in the hydraulics, then back to work. It is now raining all weekend so i will take it for another test work session when the weather clears.

I have never gotten a warning light on the hydraulics. (but I suppose the light could be broken?) So now I am not sure! It might work fine from now on. Is it possible a peice of grit or something could cause the hydraulics to act like that? Changing out the hydraulic fluid and filters has definetly made a big difference except for the little hydraulic hicup every now and then so far.

So I will work it and see what happens. I am concerned that they might be something wrong with the hydraulics and don;t want to damage them by working it some with the little hiccup on occasion? while i test it a bit?

I am still going to open up the light console and fuses and give everything a good air cleaining/dusting first chance I get.

So I no longer think the problem is electrical, rather could I have had clogged hydraulics? Prehaps the hiccup is clearing the lines? I did bleed the air plug above the pump and do the little arm exercise in the manual to bleed air from the hydraulics. Could air in the hydraulics have been the problem? When I changed the fluid previuosly, the dealer said bleeding the air from the plug above the pump was not neccesary so I did not do this last hydraulic change.

Thanks for your help. If you know of anything I should watch out for let me know.

MIles Colcock

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
That line filter should have been replaced at the 1000 hour service, and it might be a 500 hour service interval on the line filter check your manual. If you have not replaced it, I would that is where the sensor for the line plug light is located. Make sure all your warning lights come on with key on engine off. You have to get that filter from a Takeuchi dealer.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny Fixit, Miles Colcock here with the TL 140 with no hydraulics.

I borrowed a 'brain' the little computer box that mounts on the wall of the rear

engine compartment as the dealer keeps thinking that is the problem, but no luck.

Same propblem. The machine runs about 30 seconds to 3 minutes before the

hydralics shut down. Just as if you have raised the safety bar. So i am at a loss of

what to try next.

I have visually checked the electical wiring and can find no worn wires.

I noticed a little 'pressure switch' located at the back of the hydraulic pumps

(I think). Could this little switch effect the hydraulics shutting down if it was bad?

I know you suggested I have someone with a ohnmeter check all the wiring and I

not yet done this. So if you've any future suggestions, please suggest them!

Thanks, MIles

 

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
The only thing to completely shut off the hydraulics is the safety bar system. The line filter plugged light shows when its dirty or restricted or even if the hydraulic fluid is low and you are getting cavetation. The pilot system is being cutout which is the hydraulic pressure controlling all of the functions. At this point we need to see if there is 12v at the pilot lock solenoid which cuts the system out when you raise safety bar. As i said before there are multiple relays involved in the system. I will find out the exact location of the lock solenoid as I cant exactly remember at this time and I only have access to the manuals at work, but i do think if you lift the cab its on the right side on a little manifold block. There is also the bypass connector which will allow you to tun the machine with the lock out system disconnected to rule out hydraulic side issues. I will find out where this connector is also. I will be back in touch with you on Monday evening.



Edited by JohnnyFixIt on 5/9/2010 at 12:26 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny Fixit

 

I would really like to know how the 'bypass connector' you refer to above can be bypassed, so I can run the machine with the lock out system disconnected to rule out hydraulic side issues! Can you elaborate on this?

 

I pulled a little bonehead move and took out the ignition switch to clean it of debire

plus all the connections in this area, and marked the wires with a sharpie so I could reconnect the ignition switch after cleaning it out, key was hard to turn, and managed to wash off my marks! So now I don't know which wires to put back where! But I will going over to the dealer this week to return the borrowed brain box, and hopefully he can show me which wires go where. I have 2 yellow wires, one red one black and one black and white, for a total of 5 and 6 connectors on the ignition switch which are labeled with things like R1 Rb, etc and so forth.

 

I continue to fool with it! I suspect it is something simple, just don't know what yet.

 

Miles Colcock.

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Next time it shuts down kick the panel just in front of your feet. Behind this panel is where the relays are at, the connections can become dirty and or loose. Also the 2 big relays on the end with the same part number are interchangeable, one of these relays being the lever lock relay ( lever lock is the system your having trouble with) the other being for the horn and preheat relay. You can switch these relays after you check the connections to see if that is the problem.
Also we can check voltage at the lever lock solenoid. When the hydraulics shut off open the cab and as your standing looking at the unit on your right is the manifold with the lever lock solenoid, this solenoid is the smaller one remove the plug and lower the safety arm and with the key on engine off! check to see if you have 12 volts at the connector. If you do have voltage there then the problem is in the solenoid, be it the valve part or the solenoid itself. If you don't have voltage at the plug then its in the electrical system of the lever lock, relay, bad connection so on.

The bypass connector is in the rear of the machine above the battery in a wiring harness shoved way off to the side. Pull the harness out and find the yellow tape. Remove the tape and find 2 butt connectors and connect these together to apply 12v directly to the lever lock solenoid bypassing all switches and relays.
If this works it shows you have an problem in the electrical system.

It is unsafe to operate the machine with the bypass connector in!
Find the problem and repair it.

See if the dealer will give you a copy of the wiring diagram this will be very helpful too you.
Try these out and let me know how it goes.

Edited by JohnnyFixIt on 5/11/2010 at 12:09 AM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Thank you JohnnyFixit. You have given me several things to try.

One question, when yo

u talk about the relays and panel in front of my

feet do you mean the 'fuses'? Or panel in front of the 'fuses'?

I have been taking apart the fuse panel and control light panel

and cleaning everything well. Yes, dust is on all connections everywhere.

I like the Takeuchi but it is difficult to keep clean or to clean after use!

As far a dirt build up on all eletrical plugs everywhere, but they do seem clean

inside the connectors.

I am aware of the safety issues with the machine and am careful when using

it not to hurt myself.

While I realize the backup horn is most likely a legal requirement (safety)

I would love to disconnect it as I use this machine on a farm with no one else

around and the horn is annoying. I noticed a 20 amp fuse labeled horn and I

was planning on removing it after I get the machine running. In you letter you say this controls both the horn and pre heat relay. Is a 'relay' the what I would call a 'fuse'?

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
The horn fuse is for the horn itself that you honk like in a car , its one of the buttons on the joystick. The backup alarm is located at the rear of the machine above the battery in the very top of the pillar. You can remove the cover there and unplug it if you don't want it on.

The relay panel is in front of your feet if your sitting in the seat, against the front panel. There are 4 or 5 bolts there holding on a panel remove the bolts and pull the panel back.The relays are there. A relay is not a fuse. It is a switch controlled by a circuit. They are square or rectangle, metal or plastic box with 3 to 5 wires going into it. If there is a plastic plug going into the relay you will have to depress a little tab to remove it sometimes using a small screwdriver to do this. Do not force it and break off the tab.

JohnnyFixIt, Technician
Category: Heavy Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 7
Experience: 4 years Rental industry Technician, 8 years Farm Fleet technician, 10 years Landscape equipment
JohnnyFixIt and 3 other Heavy Equipment Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johhny Fixit, Miles Colcock with TL140 here.

 

I got dash parts in, cleaned everything, put it back together and also cleaned and swaped the 2 relays. Bingo, No more hydraulic shutdown problem.

 

However, I now have a new problem which I would like to get you to work thru with me but since its new I need to pay anouther question fee. If I go to ask.com and ask do you know if they is anyway to get you on the other end of the question?

 

The new problem is everynow and then, sooner or later, the engines shuts down like it ran out of gas. Seems to run an hour or 2, then shut down.

I drained the fuel tank some, saw no debrie, cleaned the water seperator, saw no water, washed the inline fuel filter in deisel, and plan on ordering a new fuel filter and inline filter today. Check water level and it's fine. So, any other suggestions other than replacing the filters? And how would I pay you to ask you this!

Miles

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Hi Miles,

I'm glad you got the hydraulics worked out Thats great! Takeuchi is a neat and productive machine and when you can learn to work on it even better.

I believe you just mark this question as fully answered and open another question. I usually check in at 5am and 6pm pacific time if you want to do it just before that time i will pick up the question.
JohnnyFixIt, Technician
Category: Heavy Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 7
Experience: 4 years Rental industry Technician, 8 years Farm Fleet technician, 10 years Landscape equipment
JohnnyFixIt and 3 other Heavy Equipment Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Not sure if I correctly asked you the new question about the engine shutting down so you would be paid. Let me know if you know if I did and if not I will try again.

 

Miles Colcock TL 140

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Hi Miles,
I did get paid thank you I don't know what happened to the other question but i have 2 accepts from you. I don't know if you got your other problem fixed but if you have no lights on the dash warning system before it shuts down try replacing the spin on fuel filter just below the air cleaner because if its old and you had sediment and rust in the separator you most likely have some stuff plugging this final filter. If this doesn't help or you have warning lights coming on for shut down let me know and well check some other stuff.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny Fixit,

 

Ok, on to my new TL140 glitch. After I changed the positions of the 2 identical relays in front of your feet, the hydraulic shutting down every few minutes problem went away. But now the entire engine shuts down about 15 minutes after I start the machine in the mornings. This has gotten progressively worse over the last few work sessions. First time the machine ran about half a day, then engine shut down, 2nd time about 2 hours, 3rd time about 1 hour, today about 15 minutes.

 

I replaced all fuel filters, drained a few gallons from the tank, cleaned the water seperator in case fuel or filters were clogged. I saw no evidence of any debrie or water in the fuel. Doing this did not fix the engine shutting down problem.

 

I have a new relay for the one I simply moved over ordered since prehaps this relay is bad but you had said this relay controlled the horn and pre-heat glowplugs, so I don't know that even if this relay is bad that it will fix the problem, but the problem did start right after I swapped the 2 relays positions.

 

So,while I wait for this relay if you have any suggestions as to how to trouble shoot this problem, please tell me. I would be curious to know what things will automatically shut down the engine, such as low coolant, which I have checked.

 

While I can't say for sure when the engine shuts down it kinda purrs to a stop, like its not getting fuel, but this might be how it sounds when it shutsdown anyway. Can't say that I've listened to it closely when turning if off in the past.

 

Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Hi Miles,

You should check the electric fuel pump first off. It is right next to the fuel sedimentor (water separator) on the bottom of the rear engine door. Remove the fuel line coming from the fuel pump and place in suitable container. Turn on the ignition switch but do not start the engine. Make sure the pump is pumping fuel. If it is, reconnect line and follow the line to the next thing it hits (in this case the sedimentor) disconnect the line out from this and with the key on see if fuel is coming out. Keep following the fuel line up to the engine, loosening fuel connection bolts and make sure fuel is getting all the way to the injection pump on the left side of the engine ( if you're standing at the back of the unit) down under the air cleaner. If there is a point where fuel is stopping disconnect the lines at that point and try blowing out clog with some low pressure compressed air (30lbs or so).
Another thing make sure your fuel tank is full, due to the odd shaped plastic fuel tank if it gets under about 7 gallons it wont be able to get a prime.
Let me know how it goes.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello JohnnyFixit,

 

Well, I checked the various fuel lines as you suggested. The Full pump, little round tin can shaped part below the radiator. It is pumping fuel. The water seperator is also clear as fuel leaves it. I could not get to the connection of the fuel line to the side of the enging, the injectors. I checked each item then started the Takeuchi but it did not help. Then I took the top of the water seperator, to look for blockage, found nothing, started the machine and it ran for 2 day. So, I thought it might be fixed by tinkering with it, while I did nothing that I was aware of. Now its down again, same problem.

There is an 'air gap' of about 4 inches in both fuel lines leaving the water seperator. These lines are semi-transparent and one can see the fuel in them, and they is no fuel for the first few inches down. Is this normal? I'm wondering if air might be getting into the lines somehow. After running for 2 days just fine, the engine shut down, Started it back up, got about 15 minutes, shut down, started it back up got about 5 minutes, shut down, started, got 30 seconds of running. Let is sit for awhile, cranked it and ran for the barn since I'm working in a flood plain. Got it to its home but thats it!

Suggestions?

Miles

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
You did not say you checked it at the spin on fuel filter. Did you check it there? or do you not have one? according to your serial number you should have a spin on fuel filter and you have to lift the cab to get to it.

Also is your fuel tank completely full?

Edited by JohnnyFixIt on 6/7/2010 at 1:22 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny,

I did not check it at the spin on fuel filter. The spin on filter, at least I hope thats the fuel filter, is located above and/or near the injection pump of the right side of the engine facing the machine from the rear on my machine and I get to it through the rear door.. I replaced this filter the other day, it was 'slightly' larger in diamter than the one I took off but the gasket seemed the same. I will double check this. I certainly hope I did not not put the wrong filter on the wrong place. I will also try to check the line at this point.

I did fill the tank completely as you said to.

I was all wet on the 'air gap' in the line thing. The line has a tube inside a tube and I was seeing the water or whatever trapped between the clear outside tube and the inner fuel line tube! Shows my mechanic ignorance.

I assume that it could not be related to the relays that I swapped positions on? Since switching these 2 relays appears to have fixed the hydraulics shutting down thing, and then this problem started, I was just wondering if a bad or partly bad relay could have created this problem?

The fuel feeder pump, little tin can thing, is pumping fuel, but it is not a powerful flow, but I assume this is normal.

I will check the spin filter and look around under the cab. The oil and coolant light as well at the battery light blink when the key is in the '

'on' posistion, but do not light up or blink when the machine is running. I am not sure if these warning lights are to be heeded only when the machine is running or also when the key is in the 'on' positon' only.

The machine runs longer before shutting down first thing in the morning after sitting all night, then once it shuts down once, it will only run say a minute before shutting down again and again. This morning it only ran about 10 minutes the first time, so this is getting worse quickly too. I don't know if the machine warming up is causing it to shut down or if maybe fuel fills the lines overnight, and this is why it runs for a bit when first cranked up daily before misbehaving.

Since it runs awhile what are you thinking? Do you think a clog may be slowing down the fuel until it looses it prime? Or something like that? The fact that it sometimes runs a while and sometimes doesn't mystifies me.

Anyway, I will give it another try today. If I can't get it running today or tommorow if you have any futher suggestions, I will try to find a local mechanic as I need to be working it badly!

Thanks and sincerly, Miles

 

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Lets rule out a fuel delivery problem first. Next time it dies take of the spin on fuel filter and make sure its full to the top with diesel.

The warning systems will blink the light for a few seconds before shutting down the engine if that is the problem.

If you get a local mechanic I will always be here to help.

Have a good day.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny,

 

The way the spin on fuel filter is mounted, again I could not get to the hose connection without doing something rather tough, but I did unscrew the fuel filter, (it was full) and and turn the key on and fuel aplenty pumped out of the base where that the fuel filter screws onto. So fuel is getting to this location!

Put the filter back on, 20 seconds with the key on to bleed the air as per the owner's manual, fired it up, ran about 30 seconds and quit.

At first I felt it was a fuel delivery problem, but now.. I don't have a clue!

I drained about a pint or so of oil to get the level between full and add just to check this, no luck and again checked the water level carefully. No luck here either.

Could I have another relay or switch problem possibly that is shutting down the system?

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
You know Miles this is the exact same feeling as the issue with the hydraulics. Though the tech at Takeuchi told me what that relay did with the horn and preheat it might inadvertenly affect the engine run system. Have you put the new relay in yet?
Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Okay Miles,

When The unit shuts down lets check the electrical side. Open the relay panel which you are now familiar with. 3 big relays on the end 2 medium ones then 1 smaller one on the left. Of the 2 medium relays the left one is the stop solenoid relay, pull the plug off this relay and put a jumper wire to the white and yellow wire this should let the engine run without shut down system control.

If this works let me know and well go from there.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello JohnnyFixit,

Curiously enough, when I ordered a new relay for the 2 we swapped slots for the hydraulics problem, I got the stop solenoid relay instead due to telephone miscommunitcation for the parts order. ( This relay and the one next to it are also indentical parts as are the 2 relays you had me swap position with, is how I accidentialy got the wrong one when I ordered the first relay) I thought about replacing it since I accidentially got this part, but was going to return it, but now I will put it in since I have it. (I assume this will as good as the wire jumper way of checking this relay) I got in the corrrect relay for the eariler swap out yesterday so will also put this in the morning.

Yesterday when I was at the dealers to pick up the first relay, I tried again to get one of their mechanics to listen to my Taky's symptons and found one who spent some time on the problem. He asked if the machine was throttling correctly when it is running and could I hear the pump clicking, I said yes, and he said that pretty much rules out a problem with the fuel delivery sytem etc. His suggestion was the low water coolant system detector, (ground it to the frame as you are having me 'jump' relays/switches) , to check it, and his 2nd suggestion was to visually check the coil or solenoid that is mounted on the fuel injector pump which has a little arm that you can see move back and forth which shuts the fuel on and off to the injectors. So I will replace 2 relays today, since thats the easy thing to do, and let you know the results. My machine has the coolant sensor a little futher down than right at the filler cap, which I understand was a design modification so the coolant is not so sensitve to a low level as the earlier version. I'm told to open the cab or whatever it takes so I can watch the 'coil' with the armature on it that shuts off the fuel and let the machine idle until it shuts down and see the coil is activating the armature and be careful as the coil gets very hot and not to touch it! Do you concurr if the relays don't fix the problem? My snag here is figureing out where this coil is and what it looks like! But I think I can figure this out! (confidence is high!) Thank you. Miles

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
The coolant sensor problem is a common problem, we talked of that very early on in the hydraulic issue, but when this happens the temp light will flash and then shut down the engine.
On the solenoid you can watch it but i thought you had take it out to see the arm move but i will verify this today. It should be right on the injection pump.
Replacing the relay may fix the problem but putting the jumper wire verifies that the solenoid is good and shows there is another problem on the circuit that controls the relay as there is 3 other relays in the circuit.
Anyway, your doing great and leaning a lot!
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny, Well I replaced both relays this morning, cranked the machine, let it warm up about 5 minutes, then drove away, got about 40' and she quit. So I unplugged the low coolant sensor, stuck a wire in the female part of the plug and grounded it to the frame as suggested by local mechanic, got about 100' and she quit. I noticed that when the coolant sensor is unplugged I do get a warning light, so I suppose the warning lights are working. I noticed that it does not seem to quit when just idleing (warming up) so I plugged the coolant sensor back in, and let it just sit their idling for about 10 minutes, then I lower the safety bar and let it idle a bit. Then I opened up the throttle some and let it idle some more. Kept running so then I got on it and started just moving along pushing a wee bit of dirt along, got about a 100 feet and it quit. Then I cranked it up and let it idle another 5 or 10 minutes and it did not quit. Then I got on it and started moving and did not get far and it quit. I need to run this 'idle' verses' moving test say for about 30 minutes to be more sure, but if the machine will not quit when just sitting there idleing and will only quit when moving, does that tell you anything? Got rained out so will 'tinker' with the coil solinoid amature thing later if I can spot the sucker. I think I will have to raise the cab to see it in action if it can be seen, so need a no rain day. But in the meantime, if the machine will run on idle and not run when being used (moved) does that say anything? All I could think of was maybe a loose wire somewhere jiggling around. Sometimes it will start right back up after shutting down and sometimes it won't. When I left if this morning it seemed to be getting worse about not re-cranking right away. There is a loud click when you turn the key on but I cannot see what is causing this click from the rear door.

The sage continues.

Miles

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
You really need to put the jumper wire in the relay plug so we know we are getting full voltage to the solenoid and see if it runs normal with the jumper wire in, this will isolate as an electrical problem or a fuel problem. If you put the jumper wire and it runs good then we know its in that control circuit, be a loose wire or sensor or other faulty relay. If not we need to start looking at the solenoid itself or still a fuel delivery problem.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Will do. I was going to do that yesterday but the rain came in, just wanted to try the new relays first since I have them! The problem I have with jumping things is I wonder if I am getting a good connection? I assume I just need to get a peice of copper wire of a size that will fit snugly into the plugs for good contact? Miles
Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
a 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire will do it. Just strip off the ends and stick it in there. You can go further and use connectors on the end that fit down in there. I will remember today to get a look at the solenoid on a unit at work today.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny. This morning I tackled the Takeuchi again. I was going to 'jump' the stop relay we talked about but: This relay has 2 plugs going to it. One plug has a white wire with a green strip and a black wire with a red stripe feeding it. The other plug has a white wire with a smigen of red on it and a black wire with a smigen of red on it. So I do not know which wires to 'jump'. I saw no white and yellow wire. I am looking at the relay of which is the second one in or the one towards the center of the panel, next to the other 3 relays which are of same size but different from the 2, of which one we wish to 'jump'. Once again as the machine tends to do, it ran for about 30 minutes this morning before the shutdown over and over thing began. I opened the cab and found the rod which turns the fuel on and off the injectors. When I put the key to 'on' it would engage, then unengage. I reached in and held it engaged, cranked the machine, and it fires right up. Then when I let go, the rod disengages and shuts down the machine. Then it stayed engaged, so I closed the cab on the hopes that maybe it was just stuck, but did not get far before the machine shut down. So, with my limited knowledge, I would say that this rod is 'unengaging' and shutting off fuel to the injectors, but whether the 'coil' that controls this rod is bad or I am getting a bad signal to it, I do not know! Again, I would like to 'jump' the relay as you recommend but can find no white and yellow wire to jump?

 

Sometimes I kill the machine by pushing to hard on a tree, etc. I assume I am just bogging the engine down when this occurs? Is there any system that detects and shuts the machine down when overloaded? Just curious about this. I am not over loading the machine in any way for the current shut down problem.

Miles

 

 

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
The only thing that shuts down the engine is low oil pressure, overheat, or low coolant. You can kill the engine by over loading the machine but its not detrimental to the machine. You will learn the limits of your machine.Let me check the schematics again and we will verify the wires, They are notorious for not putting the correct colors on the diagrams.
It really sounds like it is an electrical issue. Try zip tying on the that shut down rod you pulled and operate the machine see if it stays running, keeping always an eye on the guages and warning lights as the whole shut down system will be bypassed.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hello Johnny, The plot thickens. This morning I got a 12Volt Light Tester to see if I was getting current to the Stop Relay. This relay has 2 plugs going to it and each plug has 2 wires each. The way I understand it is that the plug with the 2 larger wires is a circut feeding from the rear of the machine, and if closed at the relay, it shuts down the engine by engaging the stop engine solinoid mounted on the fuel injector pump by a rod that moves back and forth. I can see this rod moving with the can open, or what I think is the rod.

Anyway, With the Key 'on' I could get a power reading on the tester to one leg of big wire plug. I could not get a reading on either of the wires on the little plug. They way I understand this relay works is if it gets a signal from the little wire plug, it will somehow break the big wire circut and engage the stop engine solinoid.

I jumped the big wire plug and could get a reading on both legs of the plug.

But then I had some bad luck and I can't get the engine to start period today. First time this has happened!

Watching the stop engine coil, if I turn the key to the on position with the relay jumped or not jumped, the stop engine solinoid moves the arm with a loud click, but then the arm snaps back in about a second. I tried holding it open, but engine would still not crank at all. So now I am more confused. It looks to me like the stop engine solinoid is bad, but I'm not sure and thats a $450.00 part so I hate to change it out if I'm wrong. And since I could not get a power reading going to the relay up front from either of the little wire plug legs, I wonder if the problem is not upstream of this relay? Anyway... If that makes any sense and you have any suggestions please let me know!

Miles

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
It will not crank? (wont turn the starter?) Or it will not run?
Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Check all your fuses Miles makes sure something didnt accidentally get blown.

Edited by JohnnyFixIt on 6/12/2010 at 4:56 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hi Johnny, sorry, engine won't start, starter does turn over etc. I did check all the fuses this morning when that happened. I'm not sure that the engine shut off arm is engaging quickly keeping it from starting or its just coincidental. Over the last week, when it quits, sometimes it will start right back up and sometimes I have to let it sit a bit before it will start. If I understood the Taky shop right, the stop engine solinoid relay 'the one I am trying to 'jump', gets power into it from the plug with the little wires which, I don't know if this power is on or off when working properly, but the signal which comes in one the little wires tells the relay wether or not the circut which is on the other plug in this relay, should shut down the engine via the engine shut down soilnoid or coil or whatever that part is called. I assume if the circut to engine shut off soilnoid losses power, the arm retracts and shuts off fuel to the injectors, but I'm not sure if voltage or no-voltage causes this. What puzzled me was it visually looks like the arm at the enghine shut off solinod is not staying engaged, but it also looks like the relay is not getting power from the little wires which I was told means the probem is not the relay or the shut off solonoid. And now that I'm having rouble even starting the machine, well, I can't really check anything if I can't it started, with my limited knowledge! It might be time to just send it to the shop, unless you have an insight given this limited internet way of working throught his problem???!
Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
The solenoid sends power to the solenoid it should pull the arm in and hold it to run the engine. When you turn off the key it takes the power away from the solenoid and the arm pushes out shuts off the engine. If your not getting power to the little wires of that relay that controls it there are 3 other relays and the controller box and or sensors and also diodes in the circuit that affect the system. It might be time to have technician look at it. If I lived close I would come fix it.
Now that the starter wont engage and it doesn't have anything to do with the other system you might have a power connection issue. Check your battery connections and ground connection from battery.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hi Johnny. I was just about to also decide to send it to the shop, when a friend of a freind gave me the number of a guy who services equipment a bit on the side. He came out and got it to start by unscrewing one of the metal fuel lines at a cylinder, bleeding a little air I think, then checked relays, etc. and right before he also decided the stop solinoid might be bad, he was checking to see how hard it would be to put a new one on in the field, and found a connection to this part, at the part, that was.. loose. So with a 'push and a click' at this electrical connection, back up running just fine! A loose connection all along at the solinoid itself. (on the ground side I think it was)

Miles

Expert:  JohnnyFixIt replied 4 years ago.
Thats great Miles! Congratulations!
Now you're back to work.
Anything else you need let me know.
Have a great day!
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