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catmastertech
catmastertech, Technician
Category: Heavy Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 1845
Experience:  19 years Cat, 3 years Case
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Hello, I have a Case 580K backhoe that will not start. We

Customer Question

Hello,
I have a Case 580K backhoe that will not start. We have done all the bleeding of lines etc up to the injectors. Run solenoid clicks when key is turned on. I get flow from overflow line from injectors when trying to start. When tractor does start it runs fine until it is stalled out then can't start again. Sometimes a cool down will get it running again. Do I need a injection pump? Is there anything else I can try? This started about a year ago and has progressively got worse.
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Heavy Equipment
Expert:  catmastertech replied 5 years ago.

Hard starting problems when engine is hot is usually a sign of worn out pumps. If engine will start on ether easily and has good power, this may be your problem.

 

If engine is hard to start even with ether, check for air getting into fuel lines.(cracked tube or bad hose) Make a bypass hose and run it from a bucket of clean fuel to the suction line on the pump.(bypass everything) If starting improves you have found your problem.

 

Check the inlet fitting on the pump for a screen. If it is plugged engine will be weak. Not all machine have screens though.

 

When engine is running, carefully loosen the fuel lines one at a time. Look for strong spray of fuel with no foamy bubbles. If it is weak and dribbles fuel the pump may be worn out. If you have had trouble with sludge, algae or water in the fuel, this will increase wear on the pump.

 

You could remove the injectors and have them "pop" tested by a dealer. They could be worn out too. Sometimes replacing the injectors can get it running but, if you had the dirty fuel problems the pump will be next.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Hi thanks for getting back but I guess you told me what I already expected. I was hoping that I could further troubleshoot the pump on the tractor. Father in-law had it today and it run all day until he stalled it. He won't even try to start it again until tomorrow. Brother in-law was over and was wondering if one of the batteries could be drawing it down that the fuel solenoid is disengaging.

Ether does not help us get it started in fact the engine struggles and I'm wondering if the starter could be a culprit. I have a starter on order.

Any other ideas?

I guess we are trying as much as possible to eliminate the pump before spending a grand on something that we are not sure we need.

Expert:  catmastertech replied 5 years ago.

If cranking speed is slow, then ether can make the engine harder to start. A good load test on the battery is needed. A tester over 100 amp load will check the battery correctly. Small testers don't give reliable results. Replace and corroded cables. If you see any corrosion on the outside, more can be inside were you can't see it. If you can add a jump start battery, connect to the starter terminals. If cranking speed is normal then your problem is in the cables. If you jump connect at the battery and cranking is normal, then it is just a battery. If nothing changes, it might be the starter.

 

Be sure to check for hydraulics loading the hydraulic pump. You don't want any lever to be sticking, causing the hydraulic pump to load the engine when cranking.

This could be an issue since you said it stalls the engine. Case uses a gear pump so, it does not have any regulators to worry about.

Look for auxiliary controls that you don't normally use to be the problem. If it has an electric control for hammer attachments, check for it loading the engine.

 

I hope this will help you find your problem. If you have more details about this, please add them to your next post. I will be glad to help. If this answer fits your needs, please "accept' it.

Thanks for using JustAnswer.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Thanks Don,

We have connected a 225 booster charger directly to the starter and it has not made a significant difference.

I have also already cleaned and taken apart all of the cables from the batteries to the starter. We had problem that seemed like the solenoid and it turned being the cable from the solenoid to the brushes on the back side of the starter.

The stalling usually occurs when a load is put on the engine to move or actuate.

I'm being told the govenor is not kicking in enough to increase the engine speed.

He runs the hoe just a little over idle to work the hoe.

This stalling problem has always occurred on this hoe and it just might be the way he is running it. The hoe has always restarted but since last summer this not restarting problem has cropped up.

 

Expert:  catmastertech replied 5 years ago.

This machine does not have hydraulic pump regulators since it is gear type pump. That is way it stalls the engine. It is ok to do light work but, slow engine speeds also mean slow coolant flows and fan speeds. If your are working loads that heat up this system, the need for faster engine speed is obvious.

I don't have experience in this fuel systems. Our shop always sent them out to a fuel shop for repair. I would agree with it being a governor problem if it has high hours on the engine. (over 5000 hours)

 

catmastertech, Technician
Category: Heavy Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 1845
Experience: 19 years Cat, 3 years Case
catmastertech and 3 other Heavy Equipment Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Problem was with starter.

We put a new one in and it works fine.

Thanks

Expert:  catmastertech replied 5 years ago.
Wow, I have had some starters do that to me too. At least you eliminated everything else, I know some are very expensive.
Thanks for the accept, I will be glad to help again.

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