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Dr. Natasha
Dr. Natasha, Doctor
Category: Health
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Experience:  American Board Certified in Emergency Medicine and Ivy League trained
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i had a question concerning a criminal case I was researching.

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i had a question concerning a criminal case I was researching. The victim was in the passenger seat of a parked car. She was shot once and the bullet entered from her left side and exited her right side, puncturing both lungs and her heart along the way. She was found bent forward with her legs up towards her chest in the passenger seat of the car. My question was, was there a chance she would have been found alive or could have lived any length of time with those injuries, or would she have died nearly instantly.

Thanks
Chris
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Health
Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
HI
thanks for the question,
If the bullet penetrated her lungs and her heart, she would have died instantly.
You can survive a punctured lung (or even two of them), but punctured lung and heart- no way. She would have lived seconds at most.

I hope that this helped

please leave positive feedback if it did :-)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

what would her exact cause of death have been. Thanks so much for the information. Would a punctured heart have been a heart attack? Would she have even known what occurred?

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
No, the cause of death would have been penetrating trauma of the heart and subsequent exsanguination. And hemopneumothorax.
It doesn't cause a traditional heart attack- blocked vessel- but the heart stops.
No, she would not have known. It was instantaneous.


I hope that this helped

please leave positive feedback if it did :-)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

so when you say she might have lived seconds, that would not have been seconds where she was aware or felt pain? Would she have been in instant shock?

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
it would have been shock and unlikely to have pain, she would not have had time to perceive pain.


I hope that this helped

please leave positive feedback if it did :-)
Dr. Natasha, Doctor
Category: Health
Satisfied Customers: 11999
Experience: American Board Certified in Emergency Medicine and Ivy League trained
Dr. Natasha and 9 other Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

definitely helped. May i ask you another question about a different crime? I can start again with a new payment.

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
you can would you mind rating this one first?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

for sure, but how do i ask you another?

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
right here
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

oh i see, i thought when i rated you, it would shut this down. So is a heart hit by a bullet ever not catastrophic? could it have been glancing or a nick?

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
No it does not shut it down. You can continue to ask another question on the same thread
Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
ok
I am ready for the next question
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

OK, cool, so another case, a woman was beaten and ultimately killed with a report of "traumatic asphyxiation due to neck compression". Her collar bone and jaw were fractured before her death, and her jaw was labeled as "severely fractured." Would traumatic asphyxiation refer to strangulation? could you think of any other kind of attack that might cause the medical examiner to use that label as cause of death? How long would that death potentially have taken? perhaps too many unknown variables, but I was curious. thanks again.

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
traumatic asphyxiation defined by the complete force required to cause severe and deadly damage by crushing the thorax or chest cavity. Unless specified as above in your case, it typically does not include deadly pressure to the throat. In fact, in this case, it is considered to be a misnomer.
During the sudden impact, there is an increase in the intrathoracic pressure. Exhalation against a closed glottis (valsalva) along with the crush means that air cannot escape from the thorax. The air causes increased venous back-pressure which is then transferred to the superior vena cava and capillaries. People have a puffy face and cyanosis in the upper extremities. It is like squishing a water balloon when you compressed the outlet- it pushes all of the blood into the third space.

Traumatic asphyxia has a good prognosis. Supportive treatment such as oxygenation and elevation of the head to 30° is usually sufficient in the management of these patients.

So, who ever wrote that report did not use the terminology correctly.
It should have said asphyxiation due to strangulation. A beating would cause these fractures, but not asphyxation- that needs to be something around the neck or a fracture of the hyoid bone
The death would have take seconds but can take minutes, depending on the amount of force used and if the victim struggled (which causes you to lose oxygen faster).

I hope that this helped
please leave positive feedback if it did :-)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

i have heard that strangulation can take minutes to complete and is not like they show in tv and movies. Would this be similar in that regard? would it be possible to break the jaw while strangling? Thanks so much.

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
no, you cannot break the jaw during stangulation.
Unless you have gigantic hands and you are doing this to a premie
the bone that is broken is the hyoid bone
It can be quick or slow
usually the person blacks out by lack of blood flow to the brain, not the actual lack of oxyegn
so first they become unconscious and then you continue to strangle them until it is over.
I am sure you have seen shows where the person becomes unconcious and wakes up- that is because the blood flow has been restored.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

so the broken jaw would have to come from a punch or kick. Would it be hard to cause that injury if the man was much larger then the woman? Could one punch do it? What would the injury look like, and would it be obvious? Cause lots of blood?

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
A broken jaw is a punch or a kick. no, if it was in the right place and angle, you don't haev to do it that hard to break it
the injury can be subtle- like the teeth not meeting any more (shifted) with mild swelling or very obvious- like markedly swelling and bruising and deformity.
Usually not a lot of blood unless there is a nasal fracture or mouth laceration

One punch can do it


I hope that this helped
please leave positive feedback if it did :-)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

the label was "sever fracture of the mandible" or something to that affect. So im guessing it had to be pretty serious, but I dont know if that might mean it was literally crooked or bone showing, like if you break you arm. Would it be really painful? There was a report of lots of blood at the scene where the body was, but maybe the blood came from the "strangulation" Im still a little unclear why the medical examiner used the term " traumatic asphyxiation due to neck compression" and what they may have meant, as they clearly implied strangulation in the report, but maybe its something like you mentioned where the chest was actually compressed and did not allow for normal breathing and the person died.

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
he used it because he probably wanted to say that the compression of the neck caused swelling of the tissues and then asphyxiation- this is traumatic. This is different than a chemical asphyxiation from cyanide.
But I gave you the term in the strictest sense.
They meant that the stangulation of the neck- the trauma of this event- cause asphyxiation.



I hope that this helped
please leave positive feedback if it did :-)

Dr. Natasha, Doctor
Category: Health
Satisfied Customers: 11999
Experience: American Board Certified in Emergency Medicine and Ivy League trained
Dr. Natasha and 9 other Health Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

oh yes, that helps. is the term traumatic a scientific/medical term with s strict definition, or is it being used in the casual sense, like a lay person would say something was traumatic? Would the time to death still be minutes and require great force and conviction? Could it happen accidentally?

Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
Sorry
I went to sleep. How could this be accidental with a broke jaw and clavicle? The intention was to harm.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I guess what i meant was, did he have to intend to kill. In other words, is it possible he choked her and she died before he realized his actions, or is that act difficult enough to accomplish that he had to make the choice to kill.
Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
no, you can choke someone and they can die before you realize what happened. Even in an accident.
That is why there is some accidental choking in sex and play, etc.. .
It isn't that hard to do and you don't need that much force.



I hope that this helped
please leave positive feedback if it did :-)
Expert:  Dr. Natasha replied 1 year ago.
chris
please don't forget to rate this question as it is a separate one... thanks- site rules.

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