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Andy PhD DABT
Andy PhD DABT, Toxicologist
Category: Health
Satisfied Customers: 93
Experience:  Board certified with 17 years in research or consulting
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Hi Andy, Ive reviewed the signed LOP which was very detailed

Resolved Question:

Hi Andy,
I've reviewed the signed LOP which was very detailed and comprehensive. Thank you! I'd like to give you another Accept.
I've also contacted the toxicology lab, for a second report and asked them to keep samples for another six months. Can you review this H2S report for me when it comes please?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Health
Expert:  replied 2 years ago.

AndyACGT :

Yes I would love to review it. Have you gotten anywhere with the police and a list of chemicals or drugs that were found? That is great that they still have the blood samples, I had assumed they had thrown then out by now. I'll await the second toxicology report.

AndyACGT :

Take care,

AndyACGT :

Andy

Andy PhD DABT, Toxicologist
Category: Health
Satisfied Customers: 93
Experience: Board certified with 17 years in research or consulting
Andy PhD DABT and 5 other Health Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Andy PhD DABT replied 2 years ago.
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Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Andy,
I'm still awaiting the H2S report from the Coroner. I am also asking why, when my son stopped attending for blood tests in 2009 and the Azathioprine was stopped, no alternative
medication for Crohn's was prescribed (which didn't require blood work). Chris had nothing for the Crohn's - I think this may explain the extensive damage to his stomach?
And why he was so desperate.

As soon as I get a reply, I'll be back with you. It's taking a very long time.

Best wishes,
Lauren

 

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Age: 50

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Expert:  Andy PhD DABT replied 2 years ago.
Hi Lauren,

No problem with the delay, I'll be here when ever you get the report.

Take care,
Andy
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Andy
I have now received an updated report from the pathologist which takes into account
the Pentobarbitone and H2S readings, and will put this on mediafile as soon as poss.
Several questions please?
1/How did the P get into his body? I do not think he would have injected it himself but there were was no food, pills or blood in the stomach. He must have ingested it though, don't you think? But would it have been assimilated so quickly, so as to leave no trace?
Would this be the pink fluid? Is P available as a drinkable liquid?
2/ There was no therapeutic adminstration. he was found dead.
3/ I note that this report says that P was found on the site, not previously mentioned. Also, police took a tissue sample (don't think this was previously on the report)
4/ I remember that you said lack of asthma medication may also have contributed.
In the light of the low H2S reading, would these together have caused the respiratory failure?
Are there any other points you note? Thank you so much,
Best wishes
Lauren
Expert:  Andy PhD DABT replied 2 years ago.
Hi Lauren,

Just let me know when you upload the file and I'll look it over.

Take care,
Andy
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Andy

It's on mediafire now! Same place as before! Pls let me know if you cannot access it.

Thanks

Lauren

Expert:  Andy PhD DABT replied 2 years ago.
Hi Lauren,

I used the same link as last time, http://www.mediafire.com/?d2p3o42k3aung and it gave me an empty folder. Can you copy and paste the link to the file?

Thanks,
Andy
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Andy,

I've sent this to you via email now. Can't find another link. L

Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Andy
can you confirm that you've now received the revised pathology report?
Otherwise, I'll try again with mediafire! Thanks for this, Lauren
Expert:  Andy PhD DABT replied 2 years ago.
Hi Lauren,

Yes sorry I did get it and will take a look.

Thanks,
Andy
Expert:  replied 2 years ago.
Hi Lauren,
Pentobarbitone (also called pentobabital or nembutal) can be taken orally and has been known to be a drug of abuse under the street name of "Yellow Jacket". You can get it as a yellow capsule (http://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?action=search&drugname=nembutal+sodium), which I imagine is where it got its name from. It is also available as an orange capsule. It looks like it is used for suicide and an organization called Exit International helps people get it (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=5481482&page=1). So he did not have to inject it. The first toxicology report stated that no drug was found in the stomach contents. I would have expected some to be there if the pink liquid was from the pentobarbitone. I am surprised nothing was found in the stomach. Its hard to say what the pink liquid was, my thought is that it was not from the pentobarbitone since no drug was detected in the stomach contents. This is partly why I think he took it to help him go through with the suicide, since it wasn't detected in his stomach, he likely took it at least 30 minutes before he died, so what remained had time to move into his small intestine. It is a fast acting drug, but when you take it orally it will act much slower then when injected, so it is possible it cleared from his stomach before he died. It is likely to have contributed to his death.

Yes pentobarbitone was not given as a therapy when the police found him. The mention of the blood level being similar to that used during intubation was just reported to give some relevance to the blood level; that it was as high as that used therapeutically, not toxic, but did likely have some sedative effect on him.

Yes it would be nice if it had described what the police actually found, like 12 yellow capsules, or an empty bottle, or something more then just pentobarbitone was found. It does seem funny that the police took a blood sample. I would think only the coroner/medical examiner would take blood. I can't imagine that the police are trained well enough to know how and were to get the blood from. The femoral artery is the preferred location to get postmortem blood, other sites can give misleading results.

Yes I still think asthma could have contributed, though by how much I don't know. There was congestion of the respiratory tract without inflammation which may suggest he was exposed to irritating amounts of hydrogen sulfide, which may have triggered an asthma attack. Plus mucus was found in his lungs which could have been caused by asthma, though not a severe amount.

It does not seem like any one thing by itself would have been able to kill him, but all of these factors together was very likely to be the cause. The new report only supports what I had thought before in my letter of opinion. There are still some details that are not clear, but it seems very convincing that your son had died from both hydrogen sulfide and pentobarbitone, which possibly aggravated asthma, further contributing to respiratory failure.

I hope this answers your questions. If you still have a question, just let me know.

Take care,
Andy
Andy PhD DABT, Toxicologist
Category: Health
Satisfied Customers: 93
Experience: Board certified with 17 years in research or consulting
Andy PhD DABT and 5 other Health Specialists are ready to help you

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