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MPMoore
MPMoore, GM WORLD CLASS/ASE MASTER W/L1 GMC
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2011 GMC: 2500 Diesel..a warning light..exhaust..indicator

Resolved Question:

I own a 2011 GMC 2500 Diesel. I initally received a warning light that the diesel fluid (exhaust fluid) needed to be refilled. We refilled it and the indicator would not go off. We took it in and we are now being told this is a known issue with no solution. They could continue to have us bring the truck in so they can take the tank off and put back on until a fix is found. First is this true, second does the truck eventually go to 5 mph if the fluid is left unfilled
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: GM
Expert:  MPMoore replied 3 years ago.

GM is having a major issue with this system. They are working on a fix. The problem is a software issue and not a parts issue. They do have a temp fix for this concern at this time and it involves a engine computer reprogram. Yes the truck will have a speed reduction if you keep driving. First it will be reduced to 55 then down to 5. Here is some information on the issue.

 

 

This bulletin just came out last week.

 

 

#PIP4864D: Low Or Speed Limited Diesel Exhaust Fluid Message Displayed Intermittently Or Will Not Reset - Including Cold Weather Operation - (Jan 24, 2011)

 

 

Subject:Low Or Speed Limited Diesel Exhaust Fluid Message Displayed Intermittently Or Will Not Reset - Including Cold Weather Operation

 

Models:2010-2011 Chevrolet Express
2010-2011 GMC Savana
2011 Chevrolet Silverado
2011 GMC Sierra
Equipped with 6.6L Diesel Engine RPO codes LML and LGH


 

This PI was superseded to update recommended field. Please discard PIP4864C.


 

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:

 

Important: The information in this PI addresses "ONLY" the DIC messages "Exhaust Fluid Low", "Exhaust Fluid Empty - Refill Now", or "Exhaust Fluid Range: XXX" (Range shown depends on message level). For DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) system Quality or Tampering messages follow the current SI diagnostics, and review the newest version of PIP4829.

This PI references an updated calibration available in TIS2WEB on 1/24/2011. This is an improvement over previous calibrations but is not the final update planned. The chances of this condition recurring are significantly reduced. Please refer to "Additional Information" and "Customer Information" listed below.

  1. During cold temperature conditions a dealer may encounter a customer vehicle with a DEF low message or a speed limiting message even if the vehicle is known to be full of DEF. Additionally, the dealer may encounter a customer vehicle with a DEF range that does not reset after a refill event.
  2. Note: This concern may also be present even if ambient temperatures are not currently less than 20F, but were previously.

  3. The repair process in this PI will also address vehicles located in warmer climates that have DEF fluid messages that may not clear after a normal refill event. The calibration installed during this process will address concerns with vehicles that don't recognize a normal DEF fluid fill.
  4. Note: After a refill it may be necessary to drive the vehicle for a few miles before the DEF fluid information will update on the DIC. If the vehicle has been driven for a four to five miles (6.5 to 8.0 km), the DEF Fluid Level Percentage is 100% on the Tech 2, the ignition has been turned off (allowing the ECM to go to sleep for at least 5 minutes), and the DIC still will not update, the message may have become latched into the ECM.

Recommendation/Instructions:

 

Important: All Engine DTCs must be diagnosed and repaired before the DEF messages are addressed. If all engine DTCs, Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor Messages, and Service Exhaust Fluid System Messages have been addressed, continue with the information found in this PI.

Note: Be sure to complete this process on a level surface.

  1. Drain the DEF tank following SI Document ID(NNN) NNN-NNNNfor Fuel Tank Draining (Emission Reduction Fluid) the DEF tank does not need to be removed for this procedure.
  2. Use the Tech 2 to verify the tank has been completely drained. To verify the tank is completely empty all three Reductant Level Sensors (found in Tech 2 reductant system data) must show inactive. If a level sensor is sensing fluid it will show active.
  3. The ECM will be reprogrammed using a "two part" level reset calibration available through TIS2WEB. This replaces the previous VCI calibration that required contacting GM Techline Customer Support Center. Part one of the two part calibration will be titled "ECM DEF tank fluid level warning latched reset programming per PIP4864". Select "Replace and Reprogram" as the Programming Process. Select "Normal" as the Programming Type.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I appreciate your response but I knew that. My problem is I have a truck that is 45 days old and I am being told by the dealership there is no solution to the problem and that everytime the light comes on that gives me so many starts before my vehicle will only run at 5 mph I have to take my time and money to take it to the dealership so they can repeat the items. I am trying to ascertain if this is the case so I can escalate the issue on my end
Expert:  MPMoore replied 3 years ago.

This is the case at this time. There is no "fix" at this time but there will be one by the end of the month. This will not really help right now but they are working on it. You are not the only one with this issue, all the 2011 diesels are having this issue so GM is really working on this. Go threw your paper work and make sure they have reprogramed the ecm because it is going to help. There is nothing you did wrong on this truck, its just one of those things thats beyond the dealerships control and is up to GM to fix this this as soon as possible. Here is some information on what the warnings are and what will happen when the system does not see the fluid fill. By the way, the engine computer sees the fluid level is full but the software locks it on empty.

 

I would talk to your GM area rep, the service manager at your dealership can set this up. Ask them for help on your truck payment, they can make one payment for you because of this issue.

 

Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Warning Strategy (DEF Level)

An adequate on-board supply of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) is critical for the reduction of exhaust Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) levels within the Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) stage. This vehicle provides the driver with an elaborate series of prompts and warnings that are initiated when the DEF level falls below a calibrated value.

The Engine Control Module (ECM) monitors the DEF level and consumption rate in order to calculate an estimated range in miles remaining until the DEF reservoir is empty. DEF levels are detected by the 3-position solid-state DEF level sensor. Typically, DEF warnings begin once the estimated mileage falls below 1,609 km (1,000 mi). Once initiated, DEF warnings grow increasingly more serious as the remaining mileage decreases without a DEF refill. The vehicle's current DEF warning level is displayed on the scan tool as Reductant Level Warning Indicator Command Level 1 through Level 9.

Warning Level 1

Warning Level 1 is triggered when the DEF level falls below the top-most position of the DEF Level Sensor and the estimated range remaining is greater than 1609 km (1000 mi). No prompts or warnings are presented to the driver.

Warning Level 2

Warning Level 2 is triggered when the estimated range remaining falls below 1,609 km (1,000 mi) based on current DEF consumption rates. The Driver Information Center (DIC) displays the message Exhaust Fluid Range X MI, where X is the estimated range remaining in miles. This message remains on the DIC until acknowledged by the driver.

Warning Level 3

Warning Level 2 automatically advances to Warning Level 3 when the ECM detects an ignition ON to ignition OFF event. A level 3 warning remains active as long as the estimated range remaining is greater than 644 km (400 mi) based on current DEF consumption rates. No prompts or warnings are presented to the driver.

Warning Level 4

Warning Level 4 is triggered when the estimated range remaining falls below 644 km (400 mi) based on current DEF consumption rates. The message Exhaust Fluid Range X MI, where X is the estimated range remaining in miles is displayed on the DIC. This message is also displayed at the beginning of each ignition cycle. This message remains on the DIC until acknowledged by the driver.

Warning Level 5

Warning Level 5 is triggered when the estimated range remaining is less than approximately 121 km (75 mi) based on current DEF consumption rates. The message Exhaust Fluid Low - Speed Limited Soon, is displayed on the DIC. This message is also displayed at the beginning of each ignition cycle. This message remains on the DIC until acknowledged by the driver.

Warning Level 6

Warning Level 6 is triggered when the estimated range remaining is less than approximately 0 km (0 mi) based on current DEF consumption rates. The driver will hear 4 chimes on entering Warning Level 6. The DIC displays the following messages:

Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now
89 km/h (55 mph) Max Speed Upon Restart

The messages are also displayed at the beginning of each ignition cycle. The Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now message remains on the DIC until acknowledged by the driver. The 89 km/h (55 mph) Max Speed Upon Restart message is not acknowledgeable.

At the next ignition ON event, the system will advance from Warning Level 6 to Warning Level 7. If fuel is added to the vehicle without an ignition cycle the system will advance to Warning Level 8.

In the event of a refill, the scan tool may show that fluid has been added, but the vehicle may not release from the warning level unless it is driven for greater than 6 mph (10 km/h) for approximately 5 minutes.

Warning Level 7

Warning Level 7 is active at the next ignition ON event. The driver will hear 4 chimes on entering Warning Level 7. The 4 chimes are repeated 3 more times during this ignition cycle. The DIC displays the following messages:

Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now
Speed Limited to 89 km/h (55 mph)

The messages are alternately displayed every 5 seconds on the DIC. Both messages remain on the DIC until acknowledged by the driver; however, the Speed Limited to 89 km/h (55 mph), remains locked on the DIC.

The DEF Indicator in the instrument panel flashes continuously. Warning Level 7 remains active until a refueling event is detected.

Vehicle speed is now limited to 89 km/h (55 mph) maximum.

In the event of a refill, the scan tool may show that fluid has been added, but the vehicle may not release from the warning level unless it is driven for greater than 6 mph (10 km/h) for approximately 5 minutes.

Warning Level 8

Warning Level 8 is triggered when the ECM detects that additional fuel was added without a refill of the DEF reservoir. The driver will hear 4 chimes on entering Warning Level 8. The 4 chimes will repeat 3 more times during this ignition cycle. The DIC displays the following messages:

Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now
Speed Limited to 89 km/h (55 mph)
6 km/h (4 mph) Max Speed at Next Fuel Fill

The messages are alternately displayed every 5 seconds on the DIC. The three messages remain on the DIC until acknowledged by the driver. Once acknowledged, the Speed Limited to 89 km/h (55 mph), and 6 km/h (4 mph) Max Speed at Next Fuel Fill, remain locked on the DIC.

The DEF Indicator in the instrument panel flashes continuously. The vehicle remains in Warning Level 8 until the DEF reservoir is refilled or a second refueling event is detected.

Vehicle speed is limited to 89 km/h (55 mph) maximum.

In the event of a refill, the scan tool may show that fluid has been added, but the vehicle may not release from the warning level unless it is driven for greater than 6 mph (10 km/h) for approximately 5 minutes.

Warning Level 9

Warning Level 9 is triggered on the next ignition cycle following a second refueling event without a refill of the DEF reservoir. The driver will hear 4 chimes on entering Warning Level 9. The 4 chimes will repeat every 3 minutes until the DEF reservoir is refilled. The DIC displays the following messages:

Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now
Speed Limited to 6 km/h (4 mph) Max

The messages are alternately displayed every 5 seconds on the DIC. Both messages remain on the DIC until acknowledged by the driver; however, the Speed Limited to 6 km/h (4 mph) Max, message remains locked on the DIC.

The DEF Indicator in the instrument panel flashes continuously. The vehicle remains in Warning Level 9 until the DEF reservoir is refilled.

Vehicle speed is limited to 6 km/h (4 mph) maximum.

In the event of a refill, the scan tool may show that fluid has been added, but the vehicle may not release from the warning level unless it is driven for greater than 6 mph (10 km/h) for approximately 5 minutes.

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I have already gone through that. In fact we were first told that it had to be driven without breaking for 30 minutes at a speed greater than 60 mph. So we drove it on the expressway for 100 miles without reducing the speed to no avail.

 

It is clear while you certainly understand the issues, you have not been made aware they have no idea how to fix the problem. If you have nothing else to add let me know, I will be off the system for about 90 minutes but will check when I get back on. I will accept your answer for your time you certainly understand how to fix it but that does not fix it, in fact any resolution you are documented has been tried and retried. the GMC dealer admited they have no resolution but I wanted to know if that was true before I proceeded to litigate this issue with GMC, it is short of rediculous.

 

Let me know if you have any thoughts on fixes I will check and pay you for your time

 

regards, XXXXX XXXXX the help

 

Expert:  MPMoore replied 3 years ago.
Gm does not have a fix for this at this time! There is nothing you or I can do other then wait for the new software for the engines computer. The reason for this issue is that GM does not want anyone tampering with this system so it defaults to this issue, its too sensitive and the programing needs to be changed. That is whats taking so long for the new software. They have to make sure it passes any tamper tests before they can release the new software.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I am going to accept the answer so you get credit, but is there a way to print all of this out
Expert:  MPMoore replied 3 years ago.
You should be able to use you mouse and left click to high light everything and right click and to print, or use the print screen button on the computer.
MPMoore, GM WORLD CLASS/ASE MASTER W/L1 GMC
Category: GM
Satisfied Customers: 2898
Experience: 15 YEARS AS GM TECH, TEAM LEADER/SHOP FOREMAN AT A GMC DEALERSHIP
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