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Experience:  30 years L1, GM certified
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I HAVE A 2008 GMC 3500HD DURAMAX 6.6 AND I AM GETTING AN 0087

Customer Question

I HAVE A 2008 GMC 3500HD DURAMAX 6.6 AND I AM GETTING AN 0087 CODE WITH THE CHANGE FUEL LIGHT. THE TANK HAS BEEN CLEANED,A NEW TANK PICKUP INSTALLED,NEW FUEL LINES,NEW FUEL PUMP,NUMEROUS FUEL FILTERS, A NEW PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE, AND A NEW ECM, ALL DEALER INSTALLED,THIS TRUCK IS NOT ONLY SENDING THE CODE WHEN PULLING A LOAD BUT ALSO WHEN RUNNING 65-70 MPH UP AN INCLINE, I AM RUNNING OUT OF MONEY AND PATIENCE. I KNOW THIS IS NOT AS UNCOMMON AS G.M. SAYS AND MY MECHANICS ARE BAFFLED
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: GM
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.

greetings,

here is a bulletin to show them. They need to replace the injectors under warranty, they probably do not want to do that. Covered under the warranty.

#04-06-04-007I: Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTCs P0087, P0093, P1093, Low Power, No Start, Hard Start, Fuel in Crankcase (Replace All Injectors - New Strategy for High Fuel Return Rates) - (Aug 18, 2008)

Subject:Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTCs P0087, P0093, P1093, Low Power, No Start, Hard Start, Fuel in Crankcase (Replace All Injectors -- New Strategy for High Fuel Return Rates)

Models:2001-2004 Chevrolet Silverado
2003-2004 Chevrolet Kodiak C4500/C5500 Series
2001-2004 GMC Sierra
2003-2004 GMC TopKick C4500/C5500 Series
with 6.6L DuramaxTM Diesel Engine (VIN 1 -- RPO LB7)

This bulletin is being revised to advise technicians that 2001-2004 model year vehicles may be covered by Special Policy 04039. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-007H (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss1-2179531">Condition

Some customers may comment on the Service Engine Soon light becoming illuminated. Upon investigation, the technician may find DTCs P0087, P0093 or P1093. Additional customer comments may include a lack of power, a fuel smell on the oil indicator (dipstick), fuel in the engine oil, fuel coming out of the crankcase breather, the engine cranks but does not run, or a hard start condition. This condition will not cause an engine misfire. Do not apply this bulletin to any diagnostic other than what is identified in the chart below.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss2-2179531">Cause

The fuel injectors have internal conditions that may cause them to return an excessive quantity of fuel to the tank, as well as leak fuel into the crankcase. Due to the excessive return flow and/or leakage, the fuel injection pump may not be able to build up adequate fuel rail pressure.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss3-2179531">Correction

Important: Before the technician begins diagnostics and repair, be sure to follow the guidelines in Corporate Service Bulletin Number 03-06-04-036A to avoid fuel system contamination.
Important: If the technician commands the fuel rail pressure with Tech 2® to 160 MPa at idle and it reaches at least 158 MPa, then this bulletin does not apply. The technician should then follow normal SI diagnostics. If the rail pressure does not reach 158 MPa, snapshot the data, then follow the diagnostics in this bulletin.
Reference the table below in order to follow current diagnostics for the condition that the vehicle is experiencing. If the diagnostics lead to Fuel System Diagnosis - High Pressure Side, follow the diagnostic until the Fuel Injector Return Flow is measured at each cylinder bank return connection (bank to bank).
Condition
Start with this SI Diagnostic in the Diagnostic Information and Procedures sub-section of the Engine Controls Section
Delayed Start
Hard Start
Lack of Power
Lack of Power, Sluggishness or Sponginess
Engine Cranks but Does Not Run
Engine Cranks but Does Not Run
Fuel in Oil or Fuel leak out of breather
Fuel In Engine Oil in Engine Mechanical
DTC P0087
DTC P0087
DTC P0093
DTC P0093
DTC P1093
DTC P1093
Important: If the SES light is illuminated, follow diagnostics for the DTC as indicated with the Tech 2®.
Important: When installing the new fuel injectors, lubricate the inside of the fuel injector sleeve with clean engine oil prior to installing the injector. Do not lubricate the injector or O-ring seal prior to installation.
Injector sleeves only need to be replaced if there is damage to the tapered sealing surface where it seals against the cylinder head. If an injector sleeve becomes loose or dislodged when replacing injectors, inspect the cylinder head to sleeve mounting surfaces. If there are no witness marks from a combustion leak or coolant leak, reseal the sleeve using SI procedures for Fuel Injector Nozzle Tube Sleeve Replacement.
If fuel return flow on either the right or left cylinder bank is above the initial fuel injector bank return flow value, then replace all eight (8) fuel injectors using the Fuel Injector Replacement procedure in the Engine Controls section of SI.
Record all diagnostic data as outlined on a copy of the attached diagnostic worksheet. The diagnostic worksheet, snap shot of any DTCs, snap shot of the preliminary (actual) fuel rail pressure vs desired as commanded by the Tech 2® and a copy of the repair order with technician comments is to be returned with the removed injectors.
After replacing the injectors, perform the following steps:

  1. <LI type=1>Install all disconnected and removed components. Refer to the applicable procedures in SI. <LI type=1>Start and idle the engine. You may have to prime the fuel system before the engine will start. <LI type=1>Connect a scan tool.
  2. Command the fuel pressure control to 160 MPa with a scan tool.
    • If the fuel pressure is more than 158 MPa, the system is OK.

    • If the fuel pressure is unable to increase to more than 158 MPa, refer to System Diagnosis -- High Side Pressure in SI.
    • Be sure to record fuel pressure readings on the diagnostic worksheet.

<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss4-2179531">Parts Information

 


Part Number
Description
Qty
97729095*
Injector Kit, Dir Fuel (Includes Injector, Gasket, Seal)
8
97188896
Gasket - Valve Rocker Arm Cover
(Reusable Gasket)
As Req'd
97228933
Gasket - Fuel Injection Fuel Return Pipe and Injector
8
97251047
Gasket - Fuel Feed Front Hose Connector
2
97600925
Gasket - Fuel Injection Fuel Return Pipe
2
88861417 (U.S.)
Engine Sealant, 0.075 kg (75 gram) Squeeze Tube
1
88861418 (Canada)
Engine Sealant, 0.075 kg (75 gram) Squeeze Tube
1
94011604
Seal - Water outlet
1
97188463
Sleeve, Injector
As Req'd
94051259
Seal, O-ring - Injector Sleeve
As Req'd
*P/N 97729095 is only available in a merchandising pack quantity of 4. Current order restriction limits availability to 8 per VIN.
If a fuel filter is required, it is the customer's responsibility to replace the filter at their own expense.
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss5-2179531">Warranty Information

Important: This labor operation listed below is covered by emissions and is not subject to the $100.00 deductible. Dealers will need to use the following information when submitting claims on vehicles still covered under that warranty:
Important: 2001-2004 Model Year vehicles may be covered by Special Policy Number 04039B. Please refer to Special Policy Number 04039B before submitting any warranty claims.
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use :
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
T5603
Special Coverage Adjustment Injectors Replaced for 2001-2004 Kodiak, Sierra, Silverado, TopKick Models
Use Special Policy Number 04039 B for Published Labor Times
Important: All replaced injectors must be returned to either the WPC or the core return center (UPS-SCS). Approximately 30% of the warranty claims will be requested back to the WPC.
Important: WAIT UNTIL THE WARRANTY CLAIM IS PAID TO DETERMINE THE LOCATION TO WHICH THE INJECTORS MUST BE RETURNED. IF A WPC PART RETURN REQUEST IS RECEIVED, RETURN THE INJECTORS TO THE WPC. IF A WPC PART RETURN REQUEST IS NOT RECEIVED, THEN RETURN THE INJECTORS TO THE CORE RETURN CENTER. Please follow Corporate Bulletin Number 99-00-89-019E that applies to the WPC return procedures. All injectors of a single engine must arrive at the WPC boxed or bagged together in sets of four or eight injectors. A copy of the part request, repair order with technician comments, snap shot of the preliminary (actual) fuel rail pressure vs desired as commanded by the Tech 2® and the completed diagnostic worksheet should be included with the injectors. The tags found in the replacement injector box must be completed and attached to each injector. The WPC will be verifying sets of injectors for high flow rates.

good luck

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
THIS BULLETIN PERTAINS UP TO THE 2004 MODEL YEAR MINE IS AN 2008,ARE YOU SURE THIS IS A FIX FOR MY YEAR, AND I AM OUT OF THE WARRANTY PERIOD, WILL GM STILL COVER IT. MY TRUCK IS NOT HARD STARTING,IT IDLES SMOOTH BUT IT IS A LITTLE SPONGYON A QUICK TAKE OFF. ALSO CAN THE INJECTORS TEST GOOD AND STILL BE THE PROBLEM? IS THE TEST TO ACHIEVE 158-160 MPA TO BE GOOD THE ONLY TEST TO TRUST
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.
how many miles do you have? It is the next logical cause for the code setting. They can cover this under GOODWILL . You have to ask the service director,dealer owner,DM(district manager) or call GM corporate. With all you have spent I can't see how they would not cover this. You could bring them to small claims since all these repairs have been done and the same issue still exists. You have to push them. All they need to do is find one and then they can have reason to replace them all.
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.
I found a bulletin for coverage extension on injectors 7/200k on the 2004 duramax. They know they have injector issues and I guess that is the last thing they want to cover. You might try a fuel conditioner like lucas, that can help sometimes.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
MY PROBLEMS STARTED BEFORE 200,000 MILES BUT I HAVE OVER THAT NOW. I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING THIS FOR OVER THREE MONTHES, AND I USE MY TRUCK TO PULL TRAVEL TRAILERS FOR A LIVING. IT IS A REALLY SCARY CONDITION BECAUSE IT IS NOT CONSISTENT WHEN IT WILL OCCUR. IT HAPPENS ON SMALL TRAILERS AS WELL AS BIG TRAILERS, AND IT IS ESPECIALLY BAD WHEN DRIVING INTO A STIFF HEADWIND, I AM EVEN GETTING THE CHANGE FUEL FILTER MESSAGE WHEN NOT TOWING. I TALKED TO A SERVICE MANAGER IN ANOTHER STATE WHO SAID THEY HAD 4 TRUCKS WITH A SIMILAR PROBLEM, AND THEY TESTED THE INJECTORS AND THEY WERE OK, THAT IS WHY I ASKED IF THEY COULD TEST GOOD AND STILL BE BAD,CAN IT BE FUEL RAIL?
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.

you have a some what new truck with a rare issue. I have seen injectors test good and fail intermittently. It could be the fuel rails. I have seen on gas engine fuel rails coated with contaminates that clog injectors. I had a 5.3 do that and I pulled the rails and flushed them 3x and it finally cured the issue.

was the fuel bad ? and that is why you cleaned the tank? and have you added fuel additive

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
THE ONLY FUEL ADDITIVE USED WAS AN ANTI-GEL IN THE WINTER,THE REASON FOR CLEANING THE TANK WAS AT THE DEALERS REQUEST, AS MOST DEALERS ASSUME THE CUSTOMER HAS DONE SOMETHING WRONG,AND THEN BRING TO THEM. I BOUGHT THIS TRUCK NEW, AND HAVE DONE THE SAME THINGS FOR OVER 2 YEARS, FIRST IT WAS A NON GM FUEL FILTER,THEN BAD FUEL,THEN POSSIBLE ALGAE IN TANK,THEN FUEL LINES, WHICH WERE COLLAPSING AND PIECES WERE FOUND IN TANK, CHANGING FUEL LINES DID SEEM TO MAKE THE PROBLEM A LITTLE BETTER,CAN BIO-DIESEL CAUSE THE RAILS TO CLOG,SOME DIESEL HAS SOME BIO IN IT.IF MY PROBLEM IS RARE IS IT MY YEAR OR WAS SOMETHING CHANGED IN 2008 THAT GM CAN NOT FIX?
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.
I say rare because with all the parts that were replaced and you still have an issue. The rail could be restricted or coated with contaminates. With issues like this inspection will reveal if the rails are the issue. Most of the issues we see at the dealer are fuel related.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANY OF THE ELECTRONICS CAUSE THIS ISSUE?ALSO CAN THE FUEL FILTER HOUSING BE THE ISSUE AND ALTHOUGH IT DOES NOT SEEM POSSIBLE CAN IT BE THE FUEL RAIL PRESSURE SENSOR?ALSO IS THE FUEL ROUTED FROM TANK PICKUP THROUGH FUEL LINES THROUGH THE FILTER TO THE PUMP AND THEN TO THE FUEL RAIL TO THE INJECTORS?ALSO IS THE FUEL RAIL THE ONLY WAY THE FUEL CAN BE BYPASSED BACK TO THE TANK?ALSO IF THE FUEL PRESSURE TEST PASSES WHAT SHOULD BE MY NEXT RECOURSE?CAN ANYTHING BLEED OFF THE PRESSURE EXCEPT THE HIGH PRESSURE MODULE AND THE INJECTORS?
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.

I would have thought fuel pressure regulator(I see that was replaced) The rail sensor should have been and can be tested with the scanner. Since the injector pump is new I would think if the fuel pressure is low(pcm controls the pressure) the rail sensors could be an issue and easier and cheaper than the rails or injectors. That would have to be tested and watched on the scanner/chart while test driven. That is where the tech has to be able to duplicate and watch to catch the issue. Not easy. I first learned this working on the FORD 6.0 VGT turbo issues.

pictures help me many times

graphic

1 - Fuel Rail
2 - Fuel Pressure Sensor
3 - Fuel Injectors
4 - Fuel Return Junction Block
5 - Fuel Cooler
6 - Fuel Tank
7 - Fuel Filter/Heater Element Housing
8 - First Start Fuel Bleeder Valve
9 - Fuel Injection Pump



Edited by ironmike on 5/23/2010 at 4:43 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

SINCE THIS STARTED I HAVE NOT BEEN GETTING THE MILEAGE OUT OF AN OIL CHANGE THAT I USED TO, ONLY BETWEEN5000-6500 MILES, COULD THE EGR BE A PART OF MY OTHER PROBLEMS?ALSO ARE THERE ANY ORIFICES ON THE FUEL RAIL THAT COULD BE PLUGGED, AND IS THE FIRST START FUEL BLEEDER VALVE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE?FINALLY WHAT WOULD THE NEXT STEP YOU WOULD TAKE IF IT WAS YOUR TRUCK OTHER THAN GETTING RID OF IT? YOU HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL THANKS

Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.

EGR could be an issue. They do get carbon build up and stick but that would not set your code. I would do a full fuel injection/induction cleaning service from the dealer. If you had bad enough fuel, contaminates could block the rail and or rail pressure sensors.I might remove the rails and see what they look like, 6hrs of work. I would add some lucas fuel additive . Since it does not misfire or run that bad I would consider trading it in for a Dodge Ram before replacing the injectors..

good luck

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
JUST A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS, ANY IDEAS WHY THE TRUCK SEEMS TO ACT UP WHEN IT IS WARM OR HOT OUTSIDE, YESTERDAY I PULLED A 27 FOOT TRAILER 100 MILES IN THE AFTERNOON UP A FEW SHORT HILLS AND THE CHANGE FUEL FILTER LIGHT CAME ON AT LEAST 20 TIMES AND ONCE IT SET THE SES LIGHT.PULLED SAME TRAILER EQUAL DISTANCE THIS MORNING HAD 0 PROBLEMS,GOING SAME SPEEDS AND ROUGHLY SAME TERRAIN.ALSO IF GM OFFERED TO CHANGE OUT INJECTORS AND CLEAN FUEL RAILS WOULD YOU DO THAT BEFORE THINKING OF TRADING.AGAIN THANKS FOR YOUR HELP
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.

It seems as the miles add up, these fuel systems break down. since you have put so many miles in 2 years I would trade in. If they GOODWILL the rails and injectors I would keep the truck but try to trade before the next 100k. You are putting the best kind of miles on but fuel quality in your quantity is hard to do. With high fuel pressure the injectors and pumps can't handle contaminates.

good luck

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
JUST ONE MORE QUESTION, I WAS CHANGING THE FUEL FILTER AS IT WAS GETTING CLOSE TO 10000 MILES ON ITAND AS I WAS DOING ROUTINE CHECKING OF THE LINES AND WIRING I NOTICED THE PREFORMED FUEL LINES COMING INTO AND LEAVING THE FUEL FILTER HOUSING WERE VERY SOFT AND SPONGY,I KNOW THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT THE ISSUE BUT I CHANGED THE FUEL LINES ANYWAY,I HAD TO ORDER THE LINES SO I TEMPORARILY USED THICK WALLED 1/2 INCH FUEL LINE,HOW OFTEN SHOULD THESE LINES BE REPLACED AND COULD THEY BE COLLAPSING AND BE PART OF THE PROBLEM OR ARE THEY JUST COLLATERAL DAMAGE FROM THE MAIN ISSUE.THANKS AGAIN
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.

Greetings,

You may have the cause there. The hoses may be decaying from bad fuel. Like most hoses when they split, swell or become soft they should be changed.( As needed) The Fuel injection pump draws fuel from the tank, without the assistance of a lift pump. This suction causes the fuel in the supply line to be under a slight vacuum under normal conditions. This vacuum may cause leaking connections on the fuel supply lines to draw air in, and may not show signs of leaking fuel to the outside. This suction-method of drawing fuel from the tank also makes the fuel system more prone to problems related to clogged fuel filters. I would try running with some additive and see if the code comes back.

good find



Edited by ironmike on 5/24/2010 at 11:14 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I WILL NOT BOTHER YOU ANYMORE AFTER THIS BUT I FORGOT TO MENTION IN THE LAST REPLY THAT THE HOSE CLAMP ON THE FUEL PUMP SIDE OF THE FUEL FILTER EXIT LINE WAS NOT IN PLACE, WHEN THEY INSTALLED THE PUMP THEY MUST HAVE FORGOT TO REPLACE IT, COULD THE PUMP HAVE BEEN DRAWING IN AIR AND COMPOUNDING THE ISSUE? THANKS AGAIN FOR LISTENING AND BEING A SOUNDING BOARD, I HAVE RECEIVED MORE INFO FROM YOU IN OUT CHATS IN 3 DAYS THAN I GOT FROM MY DEALER IN 3 MONTHES
Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.
that is ok. As we try to diagnose this issue I am learning this system better myself. The hose clamp could have caused a small leak which could blend air in with the fuel.During greater need for fuel the vacuum or sucking of the fuel would be greater and a leak could cause and issue with no outside signs of fuel. I would have done the same thing as you trying to save money,look around and ask questions. Hey I do that in the shop when I am stumped. great job.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

HERE IS AN UPDATE ON PROBLEM, WHEN I CHANGED THE FUEL FILTER LINES IT HELPED A LITTLE BIT MORE, I RECENTLY FOUND OUT THAT GM HAS A BULLETIN OUT FOR COLLAPSING FUEL LINES, THE ONE FROM TANK TO TOP OF ENGINE, SUPPOSEDLY A NEW AND IMPROVED LINE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO COLLAPSE,HOW WOULD I FIND OUT WHAT THE REPLACEMENT LINES SHOULD LOOK LIKE,SINCE MINE HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITH MINIMAL SUCCESS?ALSO IN YOUR OPINION IS THE COLLAPSING LINES ISSUE THE PROBLEM OR THE RESULT OF THE REAL ISSUE, SINCE WE NOW KNOW IT IS A PROBLEM WITH 2008 DURAMAX. I THINK THEY ARE COLLAPSING BECAUSE OF INCREASED VACUUM INCURRED WHEN PUMP CALLS FOR FUEL BECAUSE OF LEAKAGE

Expert:  ironmike replied 4 years ago.

Yes the hoses can cause this issue and it seems replacing them has helped. I am sorry I did not see this bulletin earlier.

restriction SES suction supply vacuum - (Nov 7, 2008)

 

View Full Image
Subject:Diesel Engine Fuel Line Repairs

 

 

Models:2001-2007 Chevrolet Silverado Classic
2001-2007 GMC Sierra Classic
2007-2009 Chevrolet Silverado
2007-2009 GMC Sierra
Equipped with the 6.6L Diesel Engine RPO codes LB7 LBZ LLY LMM

 


The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:

 

A dealer may need to perform a repair on the rubber portion of the fuel supply (suction) lines. The rubber section of the line could become kinked or collapse. Fuel lines that kink or collapse may induce a fuel system restriction (high vacuum gauge readings) or DTCs P0087, P0093, and/or P1093 to set.

If a technician was to suspect the rubber portion of the fuel feed line collapsing or kinking, replacement of only the rubber line is acceptable.

Recommendation/Instructions:

 

Complete the steps below to repair the rubber section of fuel supply line:

  1. Carefully cut, split, and remove the OEM crimp from both ends of the flexible hose. These crimps can be cut with a small cut-off wheel. Split the crimp into two pieces (use your discretion on first cut location, then cut directly across from, or 180 degrees from first cut). Special care must be taken not to damage the flare on the end of the steel pipe that will be reused.
  2. Remove the OEM crimps and flexible portion of hose from the existing supply line.
  3. If replacing the rubber section of the supply line, a 1/2 ID hose meeting SAE specification 100R3 is suggested. Dealers may be able to find a local supplier for this hose, or can contact the manufacturer Parker Hannifin. The replacement hose would be a 1/2" diameter Parker part number 601-8 or H017-8. To find a local distributor the Parker website can be accessed at www.parker.com
  4. Use worm type hose clamps (use double clamps on each end) to attach the replacement hose to the existing pipe.

The locations of the flexible hoses are pictured below.

 

Object
View Full Image

 

 



Edited by ironmike on 5/28/2010 at 1:04 PM EST

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