here is a bulletin to show them. They need to replace the injectors under warranty, they probably do not want to do that. Covered under the warranty.
#04-06-04-007I: Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTCs P0087, P0093, P1093, Low Power, No Start, Hard Start, Fuel in Crankcase (Replace All Injectors - New Strategy for High Fuel Return Rates) - (Aug 18, 2008) Subject:Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTCs P0087, P0093, P1093, Low Power, No Start, Hard Start, Fuel in Crankcase (Replace All Injectors -- New Strategy for High Fuel Return Rates)Models:2001-2004 Chevrolet Silverado2003-2004 Chevrolet Kodiak C4500/C5500 Series2001-2004 GMC Sierra2003-2004 GMC TopKick C4500/C5500 Serieswith 6.6L DuramaxTM Diesel Engine (VIN 1 -- RPO LB7)This bulletin is being revised to advise technicians that 2001-2004 model year vehicles may be covered by Special Policy 04039. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-007H (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss1-2179531">ConditionSome customers may comment on the Service Engine Soon light becoming illuminated. Upon investigation, the technician may find DTCs P0087, P0093 or P1093. Additional customer comments may include a lack of power, a fuel smell on the oil indicator (dipstick), fuel in the engine oil, fuel coming out of the crankcase breather, the engine cranks but does not run, or a hard start condition. This condition will not cause an engine misfire. Do not apply this bulletin to any diagnostic other than what is identified in the chart below. <A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss2-2179531">CauseThe fuel injectors have internal conditions that may cause them to return an excessive quantity of fuel to the tank, as well as leak fuel into the crankcase. Due to the excessive return flow and/or leakage, the fuel injection pump may not be able to build up adequate fuel rail pressure. <A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss3-2179531">CorrectionImportant: Before the technician begins diagnostics and repair, be sure to follow the guidelines in Corporate Service Bulletin Number 03-06-04-036A to avoid fuel system contamination. Important: If the technician commands the fuel rail pressure with Tech 2® to 160 MPa at idle and it reaches at least 158 MPa, then this bulletin does not apply. The technician should then follow normal SI diagnostics. If the rail pressure does not reach 158 MPa, snapshot the data, then follow the diagnostics in this bulletin. Reference the table below in order to follow current diagnostics for the condition that the vehicle is experiencing. If the diagnostics lead to Fuel System Diagnosis - High Pressure Side, follow the diagnostic until the Fuel Injector Return Flow is measured at each cylinder bank return connection (bank to bank).Condition Start with this SI Diagnostic in the Diagnostic Information and Procedures sub-section of the Engine Controls SectionDelayed StartHard StartLack of PowerLack of Power, Sluggishness or SponginessEngine Cranks but Does Not RunEngine Cranks but Does Not RunFuel in Oil or Fuel leak out of breatherFuel In Engine Oil in Engine MechanicalDTC P0087DTC P0087DTC P0093DTC P0093DTC P1093DTC P1093Important: If the SES light is illuminated, follow diagnostics for the DTC as indicated with the Tech 2®. Important: When installing the new fuel injectors, lubricate the inside of the fuel injector sleeve with clean engine oil prior to installing the injector. Do not lubricate the injector or O-ring seal prior to installation. Injector sleeves only need to be replaced if there is damage to the tapered sealing surface where it seals against the cylinder head. If an injector sleeve becomes loose or dislodged when replacing injectors, inspect the cylinder head to sleeve mounting surfaces. If there are no witness marks from a combustion leak or coolant leak, reseal the sleeve using SI procedures for Fuel Injector Nozzle Tube Sleeve Replacement.If fuel return flow on either the right or left cylinder bank is above the initial fuel injector bank return flow value, then replace all eight (8) fuel injectors using the Fuel Injector Replacement procedure in the Engine Controls section of SI.Record all diagnostic data as outlined on a copy of the attached diagnostic worksheet. The diagnostic worksheet, snap shot of any DTCs, snap shot of the preliminary (actual) fuel rail pressure vs desired as commanded by the Tech 2® and a copy of the repair order with technician comments is to be returned with the removed injectors.After replacing the injectors, perform the following steps:
<A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss4-2179531">Parts Information
Part NumberDescriptionQty97729095*Injector Kit, Dir Fuel (Includes Injector, Gasket, Seal)897188896Gasket - Valve Rocker Arm Cover(Reusable Gasket)As Req'd97228933Gasket - Fuel Injection Fuel Return Pipe and Injector897251047 Gasket - Fuel Feed Front Hose Connector297600925Gasket - Fuel Injection Fuel Return Pipe288861417 (U.S.) Engine Sealant, 0.075 kg (75 gram) Squeeze Tube 188861418 (Canada) Engine Sealant, 0.075 kg (75 gram) Squeeze Tube 194011604Seal - Water outlet197188463Sleeve, InjectorAs Req'd94051259Seal, O-ring - Injector SleeveAs Req'd*P/N 97729095 is only available in a merchandising pack quantity of 4. Current order restriction limits availability to 8 per VIN.If a fuel filter is required, it is the customer's responsibility to replace the filter at their own expense. <A href="http://gsi.xw.gm.com/si/showDoc.do?docSyskey=2179531&from=sm#ss5-2179531">Warranty InformationImportant: This labor operation listed below is covered by emissions and is not subject to the $100.00 deductible. Dealers will need to use the following information when submitting claims on vehicles still covered under that warranty: Important: 2001-2004 Model Year vehicles may be covered by Special Policy Number 04039B. Please refer to Special Policy Number 04039B before submitting any warranty claims. For vehicles repaired under warranty, use :Labor OperationDescriptionLabor TimeT5603Special Coverage Adjustment Injectors Replaced for 2001-2004 Kodiak, Sierra, Silverado, TopKick ModelsUse Special Policy Number 04039 B for Published Labor Times Important: All replaced injectors must be returned to either the WPC or the core return center (UPS-SCS). Approximately 30% of the warranty claims will be requested back to the WPC. Important: WAIT UNTIL THE WARRANTY CLAIM IS PAID TO DETERMINE THE LOCATION TO WHICH THE INJECTORS MUST BE RETURNED. IF A WPC PART RETURN REQUEST IS RECEIVED, RETURN THE INJECTORS TO THE WPC. IF A WPC PART RETURN REQUEST IS NOT RECEIVED, THEN RETURN THE INJECTORS TO THE CORE RETURN CENTER. Please follow Corporate Bulletin Number 99-00-89-019E that applies to the WPC return procedures. All injectors of a single engine must arrive at the WPC boxed or bagged together in sets of four or eight injectors. A copy of the part request, repair order with technician comments, snap shot of the preliminary (actual) fuel rail pressure vs desired as commanded by the Tech 2® and the completed diagnostic worksheet should be included with the injectors. The tags found in the replacement injector box must be completed and attached to each injector. The WPC will be verifying sets of injectors for high flow rates.
you have a some what new truck with a rare issue. I have seen injectors test good and fail intermittently. It could be the fuel rails. I have seen on gas engine fuel rails coated with contaminates that clog injectors. I had a 5.3 do that and I pulled the rails and flushed them 3x and it finally cured the issue.
was the fuel bad ? and that is why you cleaned the tank? and have you added fuel additive
I would have thought fuel pressure regulator(I see that was replaced) The rail sensor should have been and can be tested with the scanner. Since the injector pump is new I would think if the fuel pressure is low(pcm controls the pressure) the rail sensors could be an issue and easier and cheaper than the rails or injectors. That would have to be tested and watched on the scanner/chart while test driven. That is where the tech has to be able to duplicate and watch to catch the issue. Not easy. I first learned this working on the FORD 6.0 VGT turbo issues.
pictures help me many times
1 - Fuel Rail2 - Fuel Pressure Sensor3 - Fuel Injectors4 - Fuel Return Junction Block5 - Fuel Cooler6 - Fuel Tank7 - Fuel Filter/Heater Element Housing8 - First Start Fuel Bleeder Valve9 - Fuel Injection Pump
SINCE THIS STARTED I HAVE NOT BEEN GETTING THE MILEAGE OUT OF AN OIL CHANGE THAT I USED TO, ONLY BETWEEN5000-6500 MILES, COULD THE EGR BE A PART OF MY OTHER PROBLEMS?ALSO ARE THERE ANY ORIFICES ON THE FUEL RAIL THAT COULD BE PLUGGED, AND IS THE FIRST START FUEL BLEEDER VALVE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE?FINALLY WHAT WOULD THE NEXT STEP YOU WOULD TAKE IF IT WAS YOUR TRUCK OTHER THAN GETTING RID OF IT? YOU HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL THANKS
EGR could be an issue. They do get carbon build up and stick but that would not set your code. I would do a full fuel injection/induction cleaning service from the dealer. If you had bad enough fuel, contaminates could block the rail and or rail pressure sensors.I might remove the rails and see what they look like, 6hrs of work. I would add some lucas fuel additive . Since it does not misfire or run that bad I would consider trading it in for a Dodge Ram before replacing the injectors..
It seems as the miles add up, these fuel systems break down. since you have put so many miles in 2 years I would trade in. If they GOODWILL the rails and injectors I would keep the truck but try to trade before the next 100k. You are putting the best kind of miles on but fuel quality in your quantity is hard to do. With high fuel pressure the injectors and pumps can't handle contaminates.
You may have the cause there. The hoses may be decaying from bad fuel. Like most hoses when they split, swell or become soft they should be changed.( As needed) The Fuel injection pump draws fuel from the tank, without the assistance of a lift pump. This suction causes the fuel in the supply line to be under a slight vacuum under normal conditions. This vacuum may cause leaking connections on the fuel supply lines to draw air in, and may not show signs of leaking fuel to the outside. This suction-method of drawing fuel from the tank also makes the fuel system more prone to problems related to clogged fuel filters. I would try running with some additive and see if the code comes back.
HERE IS AN UPDATE ON PROBLEM, WHEN I CHANGED THE FUEL FILTER LINES IT HELPED A LITTLE BIT MORE, I RECENTLY FOUND OUT THAT GM HAS A BULLETIN OUT FOR COLLAPSING FUEL LINES, THE ONE FROM TANK TO TOP OF ENGINE, SUPPOSEDLY A NEW AND IMPROVED LINE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO COLLAPSE,HOW WOULD I FIND OUT WHAT THE REPLACEMENT LINES SHOULD LOOK LIKE,SINCE MINE HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITH MINIMAL SUCCESS?ALSO IN YOUR OPINION IS THE COLLAPSING LINES ISSUE THE PROBLEM OR THE RESULT OF THE REAL ISSUE, SINCE WE NOW KNOW IT IS A PROBLEM WITH 2008 DURAMAX. I THINK THEY ARE COLLAPSING BECAUSE OF INCREASED VACUUM INCURRED WHEN PUMP CALLS FOR FUEL BECAUSE OF LEAKAGE
Yes the hoses can cause this issue and it seems replacing them has helped. I am sorry I did not see this bulletin earlier.
restriction SES suction supply vacuum - (Nov 7, 2008)
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
A dealer may need to perform a repair on the rubber portion of the fuel supply (suction) lines. The rubber section of the line could become kinked or collapse. Fuel lines that kink or collapse may induce a fuel system restriction (high vacuum gauge readings) or DTCs P0087, P0093, and/or P1093 to set.
If a technician was to suspect the rubber portion of the fuel feed line collapsing or kinking, replacement of only the rubber line is acceptable.
Complete the steps below to repair the rubber section of fuel supply line:
The locations of the flexible hoses are pictured below.