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hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M.
Category: German Law
Satisfied Customers: 2744
Experience:  LL.M. in International Trade Law (Newcastle upon Tyne, UK)
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Hello, My question is the following. I am working since 2.5

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My question is the following.
I am working since 2.5 years in Berlin as an employee of a hotel. So I pay social insurance in Renteverchicherung.
On the same time I have a share as a business partner in a small company in Greece, and I have to pay social insurance for that also.
However they told me in the social insurance office in greece that I can skip paying if I submit the A1(old E 101) form. I asked this form from my renteverchicherung company TK,
but they given me back the E 104 instead and they told me that they cannot give me the A1.
My problem is that in Greece they keep asking for A1 in order for me to exclude me from payment.
1)how can I make sure which of the two forms is the correct one (A1 or E 104)?
2)In case that the correct is the E 104 how I will make sure that the Greek authorities will accept this, since as they told they only accept the A1.
kind regards



the E 104 is a completely different form needed if you need to prove a minimum time of paid social security in another country.


E101 or A1 is limited to a period of 12 months. It is for people who a sent temporarily abroad. This does not suit your situation, either.


At the moment on the basis of EU lawI don't see a way of avoiding social security in Greece. However, I don't know Greek law.


Hope, I could help at least a bit.



Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thank you for your answer.

Does n't the law says that you can choose in which country you will pay the social security?

If you choose Germany in this case?

It would meen that I will have to pay both?

I checked again. The information from Greece is correct. You should pay only in the state where you pursue the substantial part of your activity, see Art. 13 of this Regulation:


I could also find out that the A1 form is the right one also for this constellation. There is a special form for your case.


So, you need to check why the TK cannot give the A1 form to you.

You can find the right form here (II.5):


In case TK doesn't issue the form you will need to sue them before the Social Court (Sozialgericht). However, the link is from the insurance lobby, so they should believe their own information...



Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thank you for your answer


But I got this (II.5) form also and this was not accepted by greek authorities.


also I would kindly like to ask you to paste the links in english if possible.

This would meen that if I give this link to my insurance co in Germany they would not have a problem issue the A1 form, or they can only issue the II.5 form that there is in the link.





II. 5 is the A1 form specialized for your case. Then, I don't know what the Greek authorities want. The classical A1 form for a person sent to a different country obviously is not applicable in your case.

As far as I understand things the II.5 actually is NOT the official A1 form. It is the form TK or other German bodies will use in order to obtain from you and your employer the necessary information in order to fill the A1 form by themselves. The actual A1 is the same in the whole EU.


Thus, Greek authorities obviously cannot accept this internal German form.






I don't know where to obtain the II.5 in English. Please ask the German health insurance body directly:


They can also issue directly the A1 form as far as I know.


Let me know if it worked out!

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Sorry for my delay.

What I do not understand is why the A1 form is not applicable for my case.


The A1 form is applicable. II.5. is a special local form which makes it easier for the TK to issue the A1 in your case.


Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thank you for your help

I came in contact with the DVKA and they ask from me to fill the II.5 form to sign it and to sent it to them. They will process and than they will follow up with me and hopefully they will issue the A1 form for me.



Perfect. Please do not forget to rate my answer and let me know about the final result.



hhvgoetz and other German Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I just received the A1 form, so I would kindly like to thank you for your consultancy.

All the best!

Perfect. Thanks for the information.