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A. Schuyler
A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
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Schuyler, Im looking for ancestors of Ida (b 1884) & Jacob

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Schuyler, Im looking for ancestors of Ida (b:1884) & Jacob (Jake) Rosenstein (b:1878), mother and father of Pauline Rosenstein ("Chaikin" was her married name--she was an only child) born: circa 1906. Ida was born in NY and Jacob was born in Germany. They lived in DC in 1930 (census).

This question was previously closed....I think nobody wanted it. Is there hope of digging any deeper?</

Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: General
Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

Hi again,

 

Actually I've spent hours digging ever since the first question was opened. I found them in Norfolk, VA in the 1910 census. There they state that Pauline was born in Virginia and they had been married 9 years (since about 1901). I didn't find a marriage record in Virginia. I've looked at every Rosenstein I could find. I did find one interesting family but the dates don't quite jibe.

 

1880 CENSUS - New York City, New York Co., NY

Meyer Rosenstein 30 M Tailor b Poland both parents b Poland

Pauline Rosenstein 30 F b Poland both parents b Poland

Isaac 6 M Son b NY parents b Poland

Samuel 4 M b NY parents b Poland

Ida 2 F b NY parents b Poland

 

1900 CENSUS - New York, New York, Manhattan

Meyer Rosenstein b Dec 1849

Pauline b Oct 1849 (Her maiden name was Meyerchak)

Samuel b May 1876

Ida b July 1878

Dinah b Feb 1881

William b Nov 1882

Fannie b Mar 1885

Hannah b Aug 1889

 

Meyer was the son of Samuel Rosenstein d 1936 and Pauline Majerczyk. Since your Ida named her daughter Pauline, I thought it was at the least an interesting coincidence. Meyer Rosenstein is buried at Bayside Cemetery in Queens.

 

 

Don't be turned off by them saying "Poland." In another place it says Germany.

A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
Category: General
Satisfied Customers: 14932
Experience: 30 years in research
A. Schuyler and 97 other General Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Regarding your last statement.....Meyey was the son of Samuel Rosenstein...Got it....but when you said "son of Samuel....and Pauline Majerczyk"....I didn't understand. Who died in 1936...? Samuel or Meyer?

 

Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

I am so sorry. I was typing in a hurry and got things totally mixed up from my scribbled notes from yesterday. The whole text is this:

 

Meyer Rosenstein

b Oct 1857 Poland

d March 14, 1913 New York, NY

 

Son of Chaim and Feige (Meyerzing) Rosenstein, husband of Pauline (Meyerchak) Rosenstein, father of Samuel, Hannah, Ida, Diana, William and Fannie. Meyer immigrated to New York in 1871 and worked as a grocer.

 

It was Samuel his son who b May 1876 d 1936.

A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
Category: General
Satisfied Customers: 14932
Experience: 30 years in research
A. Schuyler and 97 other General Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

See, my research on the Chaikins ends with Tevie Schmeul Chaikin and wife Stera Feige (4 generations ago) buried in NY (findagrave.com).....Our Rubins "fizzle out" with Jacob b:1862 & Etta (Yetta) Rubin of NY (4 generations ago)....and you've just identified our Rosensteins (up to my 5th generation).

 

Meanwhile, with the Simpson & Fortney families we've gotten as far back as 8-11 generations....So I'm frustrated by the fact that our Jewish side is so hard to track...past 4 generations or so.

 

But I've been very pleased with your work so far....and thank you!

Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.
I'll look around and see if I find anything. Don't worry if it takes a while. I'm fairly busy this week and on vacation next week (hurray!).
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thanks! Well, just to give you someting to "chew on".... :-) Presumably from Nizhyn, Ukraine (the site shows Max Mendel was born there), Tevie (see above) b:1832 d:8/22/1904 and Stera b:1835 d:11/30/1904. These are good dates as they are on their gravestones in NY (again, see http://www.findagrave.com/) Their son was Max Mendel Chaikin b:1874 d:9/2/1908 (don't know if there are any more kids..but there don't seem to be). Max Mendel was my wife's GG Grandfather. But as we can't read Hebrew (the GGG Grandparents grave's in Hebrew) the rest is a mystery.

 

We would LOVE to have more ancestoral info on Tevie and Stera. Probably a name change makes this very difficult....even to find them on a US Census. But Chaikin seems to have stayed...as this is my wifes maiden name.

Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

It's interesting that when you look on findagrave and type in Chaikin and New York you get Tevie and Max. You have to type Chaiken to get Stera, even though their stone lists them together. It's a good clear picture of the stone. Someone knows what they are doing since they are often difficult to photograph clear enough to read. Probably any rabbi can give you the translations on the stones.

 

I've even tried looking just at the first names on the censuses and haven't gotten anywhere from 1880-1900. It's possible they were missed in all the censuses - some people distrusted government and hid from the census-taker. It's also possible a census taker muddled the name terribly - that's why I was searching on first names. I've been searching since we communicated earlier and so far I've found nothing.

 

 

 

A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
Category: General
Satisfied Customers: 14932
Experience: 30 years in research
A. Schuyler and 97 other General Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Oh and by the way.....In looking at the info above on Ida, Pauline Rosenstein, etc....I think we might have run into an error. Ida (shown above ages 2 and 22 in the 1880 and 1900 Census) was only a Rosenstein after marrying Jacob (Jake) Rosenstein, so this Ida can't be the one....

The Ida we're searching for would have a different maiden name, unless this is the biggest coincidence in history! :-) (same maiden name as married name!)

 

The ONE and ONLY solid piece of info I've found is the 1930 Census showing "Jake" b:1878 and Ida b:1884 living in DC with their only child Pauline (they were also living with a Frances Haldeman (Female age 44-widowed) and her daughter Dorothy. It is thought that Frances is Ida or Jacob's sister. As the Census shows, Pauline WAS born in North Carolina though....not Virginia. Now remember, this is the Pauline Rosenstein born in 1906 (my wife's Grandmother). I'm told that Jacob was a fisherman..so places like North Carolina, Baltimore, Norfolk etc...make sense.

 

And lastly, Jacob's ancestors would be great to find too. But again, all I have at the moment is the 1930 Census in DC.

 

 

Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

Actually it wouldn't be an especially big coincidence at all that her maiden name and married name were the same. I see it sometimes, especially among more closed populations and in rural areas.

 

The 1910 census has Jake, Ida, and Pauline in Norfolk, VA and that Pauline was born in Virginia. Norfolk is a large seaport. Jacob is listed as having arrived in the USA in 1898 and his occupation as being a merchant in a dry goods store - about as far away from being a fisherman as you can get. It also says that he is a naturalized citizen although I haven't seen the evidence of it yet.

 

I'm still working on this in my spare time.

 

A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
Category: General
Satisfied Customers: 14932
Experience: 30 years in research
A. Schuyler and 97 other General Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
<p>Thanks for you continued patience and research! I'm very fascinated by this.</p><p>Update: Jacob Rosenstein was not a fisherman. I have no idea where I heard that. Sorry. the 1910 Norfolk Census that you mentioned is definitely the one....being so close to North Carolina, I guess I shouldn't be too shocked that the 1930 Census that I found on familysearch.org says she was born in North Carolina. My Father-in-Law tells me that they lived/spent SOME unknown amount of time in Elizabeth City, NC. I just checked and Elizabeth City is only 20 miles from the NC/VA border, and only 40 miles from Norfolk.</p><p> </p><p>So, not to sound weird, but in your opinion, was Jocob Rosenstein a RELATIVE of his wife Ida somehow? Maybe a cousin or something? I just can't believe the coincidence of the married and maiden names.</p><p> </p><p>Ida's mother being Pauline is fitting though.....as you said earlier....since she named her <u>own</u> daughter Pauline.</p><p>A 1905 Census (Manhattan, NY) of Meyer Rosenstein shows he and Pauline (both age 54--est bith date 1851) living with Dora, William, Francis and Hanna. Ida was born in 1884, so being 21 years old she was probably out of the house and married to Jacob already. This census also says Meyer and Pauline have been in the US 33 years (so est 1872 arrival)</p><p><br />This seems to jive with your info I believe....??</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I wonder how to feel more solid about all this.....?</p><p> </p><p> </p>
Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

Jacob and Ida didn't have to be related even though they had the same name. It wasn't forbidden though, so second cousins married. It was common for first cousins to marry in some cultures, but that wasn't generally done in the US. I don't know about where they were originally from.

 

I didn't know until I started working on your family just how popular the name Ida was. Of course, I knew that Jacob would be a problem. Off to bed now.....

A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
Category: General
Satisfied Customers: 14932
Experience: 30 years in research
A. Schuyler and 97 other General Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
<p>Im pretty confused now...looking at a smiliar 1910 Census from NY (see below) Many similarities. Is this the remaining family still living in NY? Seems to be.... My biggest confusion here seems to be the birthdates of the Ida's we have here. In looking at Census record of Jacob, Ida and Pauline, it seems that Ida was born in 1884. However, the 1880, 1900 and a (1910 Census that I found) refer to an Ida that was born approx 1878...</p><p>Hmmmmm......</p><p>Again, we know Pauline was an only child of Ida and Jacob (as I said in the beginning) I know they were in Norfolk & Elizabeth City...and eventually (1930 Census) in Washington, DC. And if it's helpful, this Pauline b:1906, (the one we <u>know</u> is ours :-) married a Samuel Chaikin (b:1898-d:1966), and had two kids, Max Chaikin b:1937 and Jacqueline Chaikin b:1935 (both still alive). Max Chaikin is my wife's father.</p><p>This is tough stuff! Well, I guess we'll keep digging...Thanks!</p>
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I hope all is well.....In my last reply, I still have much confusion over the birthdates of Ida Rosenstein, so I still don't know if we have a "hit" with her. I clearly see the Ida you were referring to earlier (on www.findagrave.com she's shown as being born Circa 1877 and died 7/16/53) but this just doesn't seem to coincide with what I see as a birthdate for Ida around 1884. It's the 1930 Census that shows OUR Ida living in Washington DC with daughter Pauline. We KNOW for sure that's OUR Ida, but the birthdate estimate (and I don't see why the handwritten Census would be so "off") is more like 1884.

Hmmmm......still wondering........ Scott

Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

Hi, Scott,

 

Ladies (and sometimes gentlemen) lie about their age - always have. If we examine all the census data, we have:

1880 - 2 yrs old b abt 1878 (unmarried)

1900 - 21 yrs old b July 1878 (unmarried)

1910 - 28 yrs old b abt 1882 (married, living in Norfolk with Jake and Pauline)

1920 - unknown

1930 - 46 yrs old b abt 1884 (living in Washington, DC)

 

You know for sure that the 1910 Norfolk census is them and she says she is 28; yet 20 years later in the 1930 census, she says that she is 46 (instead of 48). In actuality she was 52 in 1930 and 32 in 1910.

A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
Category: General
Satisfied Customers: 14932
Experience: 30 years in research
A. Schuyler and 97 other General Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
<p>Wel, I know for sure that the 1930 Census in DC is accurate, and I'm 95% sure about Norfolk.....She was an only child, we know that......and we know for sure she was in the Lower VA and north part of NC (Elizabeth City).</p><p>Even though there is a discrepancy with the birthdates, does YOUR hunch tell you that this is the same Ida that eventually went back to NY and is buried there? I couldn't find a Jacob Rosenstein in the same cemetery that matches OUR Jacob, but I'm sure he's up there somewhere too.</p><p>Their daughter Pauline was buried in DC with husband Samuel....apparently a really run down cemetery that's unfortunately in a pretty bad neighborhood now.</p><p> </p>
Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

Yes, it's my best hunch that Ida (nee Rosenstein) Rosenstein, wife of Jake and daughter of Meyer, is the same person.

 

Let me clear up another misconception for you. You mentioned that in the 1930 census, Jake's family were "living with" Frances Haldeman and her daughter Dorothy, and was perhaps a sister of Jake or Ida. That isn't exactly right.

 

The structure where they lived in 1930 atXXXXXwas a small apartment building with 9 apartments occupied by people from Maryland, Virginia, DC, Louisiana, Wisconsin, etc. There is no reason to assume that any of them were related to the Rosensteins except perhaps Hasting Fortney, age 61 M, single, b MD, father b MD, mother b Germany. He is sharing his apartment with a roomer named George Ford, 52 M, single. Hastings may be part of your extended Fortney family.

 

Hastings Fortney and George Ford are in the apartment on one side of the Rosensteins and Frances Haldeman is on the other side. Frances was born in DC with both parents born in New Jersey. Unless you know for a fact that she is related to Jake or Ida, I doubt that she or the others in the apartment building are related (with the possible exception of Hastings Fortney).

 

A. Schuyler, Research Analyst
Category: General
Satisfied Customers: 14932
Experience: 30 years in research
A. Schuyler and 97 other General Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
You've done so great with Ida & Jacob Rosenstein! Thanks for all of your help. I guess with genealogy we've just got to be patient and hope that some day more details will surface that will help tie it together....to really KNOW that these might be the same Ida and Jacob. This is one of a few family lines that just remains somewhat of a mystery......You've been so helpful though! And I appreciate it!
Expert:  A. Schuyler replied 3 years ago.

You're so very welcome. It is my pleasure to help connect people with their ancestors. I remember how exciting it was for me when I was researching my family, and want others to know that joy.

 

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