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Brendan Joseph
Brendan Joseph, Consultant
Category: Genealogy
Satisfied Customers: 838
Experience:  Brendan has worked as an expert for Ancestry.com specialising in Irish / British/ Canadian / Australia/ American research.
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looking for information in relation to THE PARENTS of my grgreat

Customer Question

looking for information in relation to THE PARENTS of my grgreat grandparents:
JOHANN LUDWIG ENGEL born 6th December 1783: Frankfurt am Main: died 16th February 1861 and his wife
ANNA CLARA KISSNER (KIBNER) born 28th August 1792: died 9th August 1861
they married in Frankfurt 18th October 1813.

I believe they had 'at least' six children?
One son JOHXXXXX XXXXX ENGEL b Frankfurt am Main 14th November 1818, sailed to Australia from Rotterdam aboard the Midlothian arriving June 1850.

He married MARIA CATHARINA WINGENDER born 1882-3: Duchy of Nassau: or native of Gelsdort near Cologne in Germany.(?)

John established a Guttenberg Pruinting Office in York Street Sydney and was involved in the establishment and running of the German Evangelical Church in in Sydney in 1866.
He published their humn book containing 150 hymns.

His brother GEORGE PETER ENGEL born 17th January 1821 arrived in Sydney aboard the 'Harmony' 20th May 1849. He died 23rd Sept 1849.
He married JOSEPHINE LOUISE DIEHL: born19th December 1820 (STRASBOURG/FRANCE) in the German Reform/Presbyterian Church: 14th January 1852. She obtained a passport for England 12th February 1850.

George and Josephine were pioneer settlers/traders/ship builders contributing to the establishment of a town TEA GARDENS on the Myall River Port Stephens NSW.
Their first SON: XXXXX XXXXX ENGEL (11) was my great grandfather.

Their sister DOROTHEA born 1827 Frankfurt Germany married JOHN WENZEL born 1821 DarmsrSR Germany on 13th August 1860 in Sydney.

I have always been proud of my surname and the more I research and learn the more I feel a sense of place and connection to the Ancestors.
I have three sons and three grandchildren and would like to leave as much detailed information for them as possible.

Today I discovered the grandson of JohXXXXX XXXXX Engel and Anna Clara Kibner was a member of the Australian parliament in 1889. This means our family were part of the formation of Federation and it is of special note as my youngest son works for the Australian Governement in the department of Fair Trading.

The more I learn the more I find connections to present times.

thank you
Christine Ann Enge
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Genealogy
Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 10 months ago.

Hello there,

Welcome to Just Answer, my name isXXXXX will be researching your question today. I have located another sister, I wonder did she also emigrate?

 

Brendan

Customer: replied 10 months ago.


to my knowledge no other members of my Engel family came to Australia.


 


My interest is learning about the parents and possibly grandparents of Johann Ludwig and his wife Anna Clara Kissner (kibner)


 


thank you

Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 10 months ago.

Hello Christine,

 

I have located baptism records for 6 children. I will see what else I can find.

 

Brendan

Customer: replied 10 months ago.


result looks good if three of the children are


JohXXXXX XXXXX b 1818


George Peter b 1821


Dorothea 1827


 


I have been told the family name Engel is very common in Germany and Holland and in research and reading I realise names duplicate in families not connected by DnA


 

Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 10 months ago.
Hi Christine,

I have 6 correct parents, all born Frankfurt, I am looking for more, I am also picking up marriages for the Children, I know you have some, I am trying to find new ones.

Brendan
Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 10 months ago.
Hi Christine,

This is what I have found:

Johann Ludwig Engel in entry for Friederika Carolina Albertina Engel, "Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898"Name: Friederika Carolina Albertina Engel
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 15 Feb 1829
Christening Place: Frankfurt (Main), Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Birth Date: 31 Jan 1829
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Clara Kissner
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00140-3
System Origin: Germany-EASy
GS Film number: 341753
Reference ID:


Johann Ludwig Engel in entry for JohXXXXX XXXXX Engel, "Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898"Name: JohXXXXX XXXXX Engel
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 27 Nov 1818
Christening Place: Frankfurt (Main), Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Birth Date: 14 Nov 1818
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Clara Kißner
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00444-8
System Origin: Germany-EASy
GS Film number: 341742
Reference ID: 531-951


Johann Ludwig Engel in entry for Anna Catharina Elisabeth Engel, "Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898"Name: Anna Catharina Elisabeth Engel
Gender: Female
Christening Date:
Christening Place: Frankfurt (Main), Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Birth Date: 19 Oct 1821
Birthplace: Frankfurt (Main), Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Clara Keßner
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04591-9
System Origin: Germany-EASy
GS Film number: 341745
Reference ID: p479 #850


Johann Ludwig Engel in entry for Dorothea Catharin Engel, "Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898"Name: Dorothea Catharin Engel
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 24 Dec 1826
Christening Place: Frankfurt, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Birth Date: 07 Dec 1826
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Clara Kißner
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00185-0
System Origin: Germany-EASy
GS Film number: 341750
Reference ID: P-563 #987


Name: Friedrich Karl Engel
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 26 Jun 1814
Christening Place: Frankfurt Main, Hessen-Nassau, Prueßen, Germany
Birth Date:
Birthplace: Frankfurt, Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
Death Date: 07 Jan 1816
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Clara Kissner
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00757-1
System Origin: Germany-ODM
GS Film number: 341738
Reference ID:


Johann Ludwig Engel in entry for Georg Peter Engel, "Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898"Name: Georg Peter Engel
Gender: Male
Christening Date:
Christening Place:
Birth Date: 17 Jan 1820
Birthplace: Frankfurt Main, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Anna Maria Kißner
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04288-7
System Origin: Germany-ODM
GS Film number: 341744
Reference ID:


Name: Edward Christian Jassoy
Birth Date: 14 Nov 1823
Birthplace: Hanau
Age:
Spouse's Name: Friedericke Caroline Albertine Engel
Spouse's Birth Date: 31 Jan 1829
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 03 Mar 1855
Event Place: Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Father's Name: Christian Ludwig Jassoy
Mother's Name: Maria Christina Muller
Spouse's Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Spouse's Mother's Name: Anna Clara Kissner
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00612-8
System Origin: Germany-EASy
GS Film number: 342180
Reference ID: P36


Name: Gustav Benjamin Engle
Birth Date: 02 Jun 1815
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Elisabethe Margaretha Bühlmeyer
Spouse's Birth Date: 27 May 1832
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 16 Jun 1855
Event Place: Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
Father's Name: Johann Ludwig Engel
Mother's Name: Anna Clara Kissner
Spouse's Father's Name: Johann Christoph Bühlmeyer
Spouse's Mother's Name: Anna Margaretha Pickel
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00612-8
System Origin: Germany-EASy
GS Film number: 342180
Reference ID: p 160


Brendan
Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 10 months ago.

Hi Christine,

 

I have located the death records for Johann and his wife. There are no birth / baptism records in Germany that corespond to the dates on the death records. The first son was usually called after his father's father, first daughter the same convention.

 

Brendan

Brendan Joseph, Consultant
Category: Genealogy
Satisfied Customers: 838
Experience: Brendan has worked as an expert for Ancestry.com specialising in Irish / British/ Canadian / Australia/ American research.
Brendan Joseph and other Genealogy Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Greetings and thank you.
I feel like a voice in the wilderness but wish to emphasise, in the economic climate of life in australia/western society, family research has become a luxury which I cannot afford to return to until 2014.

And I will return as family research is not only a historic document of dates and names but an avenue into meeting family who lived in a previous world where everything including diet, clothing, hygiene, education, transport, work implements, travel and belief systems were either set in tradition, religion or governed by ecology, war and technology of the times.

When I realised my Ancestors came from Europe, British Isles, India, New Zealand and had lived in South Africa, I felt connected to humanity in a way I'd not known. I felt no matter what the differences we are one species and the difference should make us curious to learn and understand one another.

I also wondered if my Ancestors movements stemmed from necessity, hardship or the desire to see and know what lay beyond the horizon. Since childhood I've been interested in geography, geology, history, sociology and archaeology and while I am not educated, have not travel and, like so many, dream to win the lottery so I can, I remain an armchair traveller with deep appreciation for the technology that connects me to the world of knowledge.

I share all this because my family research is deeply personal and apart from two cousins who live many hours away so we cannot meet, there is no one to share Ancestral stories with.
I hope my words reinforce my intention to return to your site in 2014.

Blessings for the season where we remember the purpose to live is to create Peace.
Success in 2014.

walk gently
Christine

Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 10 months ago.
Hi Christine,

Very well said, you have the same interests that I have, most of our ancestors were not wealthy, they worked hard to feed their families.

The German records are available at:

www.familysearch.org

You learn how to play with the records.

Peace to you and have a great Christmas.

Brendan
Customer: replied 10 months ago.


Thank you Brendan. I'm encouraged by your prompt replies and ability to provide information with a very nice sense of personal interest in clients. I'll come back for more info early 2014. walk gently into the new year.

Expert:  Brendan Joseph replied 10 months ago.
Hi Christine,

Have a great Christmas and happy new year.

Brendan

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