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HDGENE
HDGENE, Ford Senior Master/Diesel/Trans
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 4784
Experience:  25 years Auto experience, Ford ,GM, Chrysler, Asian & European
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2007 expedition wont start but starter stays engaged until I

Customer Question

2007 expedition wont start but starter stays engaged until I turn key off...what could it be
Submitted: 6 months ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

Sounds like the starter relay but i want to start by having you disconnect both of the battery cables for 5 minutes and reconnect them. Let me know what it does.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
ok give me a sec
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

No problem.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
ok I disc them waiting 5 min
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

Perfect.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Same
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
same
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

So it just keeps turning over wont start and will not stop turning the engine over until you have the key off correct?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

Is your vehicle equipped with automatic start?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
no
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
my wife pulled into garage as always and it did this today
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

Do you have any lights on the dash blinking or on?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
nope
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

I was suspecting a possible issue with the security system here but with no lights coming on It sounds to me like the ignition switch is the problem here.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
is that common with 118k?
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

They do go out and sometimes sooner than later depending on the weather and use. I have seen farm vehicles go threw switches all the time because of dust dirt but on normal vehicles it is not as common but we do see them in the shop consistently. You will remove the cover on the steering column and follow the steps I have loaded below.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
ok im confused ...I pulled it out and still same thing
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

You have to replace the ignition switch and this should correct the issue. It is acting as if you do not have one connected.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
but would it not kill the starter?
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

It should but if you remove it this will completely bypass the ignition switch. That appears to be what the system is doing. So this verifies the ignition switch is shorted out completely.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I have removed it and still engages starter
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
this is the actuator that you gave me info on
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
the actuator does not work when plugged in can you send me info on the switch?
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

Should look like this.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
igot it can you sendme info on disaseble
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

The steps I sent are the only ones I have available for the ignition switch. The only other ones available are for the ignition cylinder but I have loaded them as well.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
broke th tilt lever...ugh any info on that
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

You have to release the tabs and it slides out. Did it not slide out?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
its a screw on ign switch I pulled it but tilt lever in way and itbroke when I pulled it
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

Yeah the tilt lever has release tabs on it. You press the release tabs and pull out the lever. You will have to get another lever and push the release tabs and fish out the rest of the lever still in the slot.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
ok where are the release tabs
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I see springs ...no tabs though
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

I am having a hard time getting good photos to show you what i am talking about. But here is a good one

Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

If you have the manual rod I believe that just sits on there with a little c clip

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
its a plastic lever that goes into rear of column...not an old school steel rod
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

Okay they just clip right over a metal tab and it is common for them to fall out. You can simply put it back on and hold it tight with some silicone.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
its sping loaded it does not come right out
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

I think we are talking about different things here. the plastic clip fits over a metal tab. Can you send a photo please.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
this is the tilt wheel lever that is on the left side of st wheel its plastic and it goes into the back of steering column
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Here
Expert:  C. Walker, Jr. replied 6 months ago.

I have never replaced one of those on this vehicle. Let me open this question up to the rest of the experts and one should be able to assist that has experienced this before.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
As long as I don't get charged anymore
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Hello, do you need help with the starting issue or replacing a broken tilt steering lever?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
it broke in the column
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok removal and replacement of the tilt lever requires removal of the column and partial disassembly to replace it. Its a pretty involved job including removal of the airbag. Not something I would recommend you doing yourself unless you are comfortable doing this type of repair. You still need to figure out the cranking all the time issue? Have you checked the starter relay in the passenger side fuse panel for being melted??

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I only seen 2 relays 1 plastic in the mid of fuses and a rectangle metal just off the side neither are melted
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Sorry bout that, was thinking it was the earlier model fuse panel. The starter relay is located in the undehood fuse panel as shown here.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
you don't think ignition switch??
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

I havent seen an ignition switch fail, its possible, the ignition switch sends current to the starter relay through the park neutral switch when cranking, you would have to pull the relay and see if the relay is getting power when cranking only or all the time.One lead will be hot all the time, other will be hot only in the crank position. If 2 of the leads are hot all the time, then it would be an ignition switch possibility.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I just switched out the relay and it was the same thing
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Does it stop cranking with it removed?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
it won't crank removed
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok. you said you swapped the starter relay with another so its doing the same thing. So it shouldnt be a rleay issue long as the fuse block didnt look melted or overheated where the relay sits. There is an early and late production starter circuit.The later model uses a starter diode in the fuse panel which if equipped would be next to the fuel pump and ac clutch diode in the underhood fuse box, does it have a third diode next to the other two or is this spot blank? If it has a starter diode try swapping it out with one of the others and check for the starter staying engaged.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
it has a 3rd ..swapped it and same thing
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Without that diode in place it does not even crank
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok, here is a copy of the schematic for the late build with the diode for the starter circuit. With the starter relay removed, see if you are getting power on pin 85 for the starter relay which you most likely are. This wire runs through the starter diode and is fed by the ignition switch which is a blue/white wire on the switch. Long as the ignition tumbler springs back after turning the key to crank, the switch should not have power.If it does have power all the time, disconnect the electrical connector at the ignition switch and inspect for signs of being overheated or melted. Unbolt the ignition switch and see if it moves freely.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
It springs back fine ...no evidence of melting on the ig. Switch
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

See, if the switch is still sending power on the blue white wire. If it is then the switch is bad.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Negative sir test light goals out as soon as I let key go but starter stays engaged
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok so the switch is doing what it is supposed to. Then its a possibility that the starter motor itself is shorted at the solenoid. You will have to get under the vehicle on the passenger side to get to the starter and disconnect the small starter wire at the solenoid on the starter, Test and see if this wire has power when the key is off, it should only be hot during the crank position. Need to be careful the larger wire at the starter is hot all the time so you dont want to short a tool against it or disconnect the battery before removing the wire. Also inspect the wiring at the starter for any damage

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
ok wire has power in the non cranking position
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
released position
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
blue/white wire at ig switch is shutting off in starter release mode but still have power t starter in release mode
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Then you are sure you are pulling the right relay?it would have to have a short at the relay or in the fuse panel for it to feed that circuit if not getting power from the switch to the relay

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Yep 2nd one in from left on bottom
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
This is really really weird
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

test for power a the relay, have to take apart the fuse panel check for a shorted wire or run a new wire from the relay to the starter, bypass shorted circuit

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
ok but why wouldn't it start?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
relay has power at left leg ...and when I turn the key it has power at the top leg ...right leg is ground? what is bottom leg starter wire?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Its listed in the schematic, the relay has numbers on it to identify the circuit it runs as shown in the schematic. You said the starter is engaged all the time, I dont recall you saying anything about it wont run

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
It won't start either that is what I told the other guy...it was fine last night
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

So you turn the key to on and it cranks all the time and wont stop cranking? It cranks and it wont run? Does the THEFT lamp flash when you turn the key to on?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
no theft light
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Communication to the PCM with a scan tool? Check engine light comes on when the key is turned to on? The THEFT lam comes on solid and then goes out when the key is turned to on?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
CEL ...BATT DEAD NOW ...gonna get a charger in the morn...
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok, need to verify fuel pressure to engine, see if it will start with some carb clean sprayed into intake. If it runs it should stop cranking over.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Just an FYI it was the fuel pump
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok good, seemed like if it would crank and not start that was the direction to go to.

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