How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask HDGENE Your Own Question
HDGENE
HDGENE, Ford Senior Master/Diesel/Trans
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 4784
Experience:  25 years Auto experience, Ford ,GM, Chrysler, Asian & European
285738
Type Your Ford Question Here...
HDGENE is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

I have a 2005 ford escape 3.0. With a no start issue. I 't

Customer Question

Hi I have a 2005 ford escape 3.0. With a no start issue.
For starters I don't have access to a scope or any specialty tools I do have a decent scanner
So I bought this car last month it ran rough with codes for misfire on cylinder 2 and 4
I troubleshot It down to pcm I used various articles online. I wasn't receiving a ground signal for spark.. Even though ford tech at dealership said they usually are 2 cylinders in numerical order like 1&2 or 3&4.. So I replaced the pcm anyway with a brand new one and the two affected cylinders spark plugs and coil packs. Had dealership program. On start up ran exactly the same. Drove home and it cut off in my driveway. Trouble shot to no spak on any cylinders EXCEPT 6.. I then omhed out all the wiring for the coil packs. All grounding side wires had continuity at pcm none to ground or power. All power Red wires have 13 volt with key on. . Concluded I had bad pcm from factory. Ford wouldn't honor exchange because I hadn't changed all coil packs.
So I changed all coil packs and plugs all Motorcraft double platinum went to pick n pull started up a 06 model they had heard it run pulled pcm had locksmith program pats.. Car still will not start 6 still only one with spark...
Side note. When I turn the key on I see the affected plugs spark once.. But not once I try to start...
Submitted: 6 months ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Lower the converters from the exhaust manifolds and smell for raw fuel in the exhaust. If the engine is flooding out with fuel vapors, the engine will not start. Check the catalytic converters for raw fuel, you will smell it, and let me know if there is fuel present in the exhaust.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Hi I'm getting fuel pressure at the rail and spark plugs are soaked in fuel I have since pulled the fuel pump fuse as to not flood the engine.. On a side not I thought maybe the crankshaft position sensor may be bad but I am getting rim readings on my scanner
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I am not getting any spark... That's the problem I am having
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Weird thing is I get spark on one cylinder which is number 6 no other cylinders have spark
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

I had a Lincoln Aviator with the same type of problem. The plugs were soaked with fuel. We only got spark for a second and then nothing. The converters were flooded with fuel. Remove the 02 sensors and smell for raw fuel. If the sensors show the engine is flooded, the PCM will turn off the spark. I found out the very hard way.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ok I apologize will do... If I just unplug the o2 sensor will it try to start if that was the problem?
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

It may, but smell for raw fuel in the exhaust with the 02s out. You will not miss it if it is. This is just one of the checks to eliminate causes. Since the spark plugs are fuel fouled, it is very possible.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ok I pulled the front o2 no gas poured out.. I smell gas but no stronger than the way it usually smells
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

t will not pour out, but you will smell it. Leave the 02 sensors out and clean the spark plugs and see if the engine will start.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
No go. I already had the plugs out and cleaned and I had the fuel pump fuse pulled. I checked the front to to ensure they were still dry.. Installed the fuse and nothing...
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

And what DTCs are you getting from the PCM?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
This pcm hasn't been ran on the car so I cleared it. I'm only getting a fuel pressure sensor circuit high and a fuel temperature sensor circuit high I'm thinking it was because of the pulled fuse but I can reset and see if it comes back
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Please do and give me the actual code you get. Example P0402.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
What tells the pcm when and what cylinder to fire?? Because I'm thinking if the pcm has 3 coil drivers like I've read and each controls 2 cylinders then it makes no sense that number 6 has fire and another cylinder doesn't..
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

On the 2005 Escape 3.0L V6 there are 6 coil drivers in the PCM. The crankshaft position sensor tells the PCM when #1is at TDC to fire #1 coil and the cam sensors are used to fire the injectors.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ok sorry on the dtc I must have erased them I don't have anything now
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ok just did a on demand self test with my scanner and got p0161 and p1000
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Could some of the teeth have broken on the crankshaft position sensors gear throwing off the readings? I get a reminder reading. But it's weird I only get spark on one coil
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

P1000 is a pass code and the vehicle needs to be driven. The P0161 is a heater circuit for an 02. Make sure all the 02 sensors are plugged in when doing the self test.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Yeah I know what the codes are just passing on the information
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Inspect the crankshaft pulley and crank sensor. Make sure the pulley is in one piece. The trigger wheel is on the back of the pulley.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I pulled the sensor I cant see inside the hole but it does have small pieces of metal stuck to the tip would it be enough interference?
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Can you post a picture of the metal on the sensor or did you clean it off already? There should be no metal on the tip of the sensor. I would be wondering where the metal came from.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Here I cleaned it but this is the metal
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Can I ohm out the sensor?
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ok I see online between(###) ###-####ohms I'm only getting 140 think I need a new one
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Where did you find that spec?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ford/3.0L-3.8L/how-to-test-the-crank-sensor-1
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
http://www.samarins.com/glossary/crank_sensor.html
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

We only test them by doing the AC voltage test. Not sure where they get the OHMS reading form them. Ford does not publish the specs. But you can try a crank sensor.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I will do whatever you recommend
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Try this one. Go to an auto parts store and ask if they have a sensor. Then measure the resistance there before you pay for it so you have one you can verify the resistance on.

Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Also, do a manual compression test on all the cylinders. This will verify the condition of the basic engine without taking anything apart. Each cylinder should be around 170 psi.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I'll probably just buy it lol already have it out and it's only 15$ I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow after I get it
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Probably around 5pm eastern
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Ok. Talk to you tomorrow. I'll be home after 6:30 PM from my dealership. I'm in Florida.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I also did a compression test when I first bought it all between 170-180
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Ok. Base engine is good.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
No go on the crankshaft position sensor. But the new sensor did ohm out to 280.
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Ok. We need to see if you are loosing power or ground to the coils. The ground comes from the PCM and power comes from the PCM power relay which feeds 12 volts or battery voltage to the injectors, sensors and coils.

Using your meter, place the negative lead on the battery negative post and the positive lead on the RED wire at any coil. Crank the engine and see if power is constant. Then place the red lead on the battery positive post and the negative lead on the other wire in any coil connector and crank the engine. See if you get a pulsed ground. This part is better to do with a NOID light once you see if you get constant power while cranking. The NOID light should flash while cranking. Also, you can use a test light for the ground test.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Tried this test already. The power stays constant. Never get a ground pulse
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Except number 6 it gets a pulse
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Have you OHMED the wiring between the ground side of the coils to the PCM wiring connector? This will see if the wiring is good between the PCM and the coils.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I already did that also none ohm to ground or power. I followed a previous guys forum and pretty much tested what I believe to be the whole ignition system except the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor... The pcm has been replaced twice the one on it came from a known running car with transmission problems.
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Without actually putting my hands on the vehicle and checking it myself, I am kind of out of ideas.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Can I talk to someone different
Expert:  A. Penland replied 6 months ago.

Sure can. let me OPT OUT and reopen your question to the other expert. Please wait till one of them reply back to you. If you reply back to me before they reply to you, it will lock your question to me and delay their response. I'll keep watch over your question and see what they have to say. Thank you for sticking with me.

Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Hello, took awhile to read all that, so number 6 fires and has injector pulse and the rest have no ground pulse? If you meausre power and ground across the non functioning coils does it show constant power or does it pulse or only power on the red wire and no ground signal whatsoever? I know you said you ohm tested the wiring between the pcm and the coils. Have you tried load testing each individual injector driver ground wire from its respective coil to the same pin for that coil at the pcm? If the circuit is good it should light up a bulb bright and a good way to wiggle test the harness and see if you have a voltage drop on that circuit.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
They all have fuel injector pulse I am getting fuel to all cylinders unless you are talking about the ground driver pulse then no only one is 6 and all have battery voltage at the Red wire. I did load test them all when you turn on the key since the coils are not grounded the voltage from the red wire travels through the coil into the corresponding group wire correct? So I used a wire probe and probed each "ground" wire from each coil including number 6 at the pcm plug directly at the back of the pin with a test light. Will that suffice as a load test??
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Also I don't know if it's related but there is no power at fuses 1,2,3,10,20,30. This is the interior fuse panel
They are not blown just no power
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Well either they all have injector pulse or they dont, which one is it. all 6 injectors share the same battery voltage feed red wire. all six injectors have 6 separate ground/pulsing driver wires for each injector and same goes for the coils. share same power wire and 6 individual ground/pulsing driver wires from the pcm. So whats going on with the coils?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I think we are mixing things up. The fuel delivery is fine... All plugs are soaked with fuel every time I pull them. I am not getting a pulse for ignition coils 1-5... Injector pulse is fine..... No spark is the problem
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Right and the coil work on the same principal as the injectors, power and pulsing ground driver from pcm. Do you have coil pulse to fire the coils on all 6, power and ground all the time constant? No Ground? On number 6 that does fire is the spark a bright blue? You said compression was good?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
bright blue spark on 6.. I've been talking about the coils the entire time. I've tested them all. They all have power I have load tested and ohmed the wires. I am not receiving the pulse to fire the other 5 coils... Any other situation I would immediately think pcm but like I said it's been changed twice... .. Second time with a known good pcm. Maybe whatever tells the pcm when and what cylinder to fire? Idk.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Well being you pulled metal out off the crank sensor which can act like a magnet since it generates an ac voltage. The trigger wheel that gives rpm reference and Top dead center information for the pcm to fire the coils. Id suspect an issue with the trigger wheel on the front of the crankshaft behind the timing cover. Take a look at the teeth on the trigger wheel inside the timing cover through the crank sensor mount as you rotate the crank by hand via the crank pulley bolt if you can see it. There should be teeth all the way around except for when you get to the compression stroke on number one cylinder, there will be a gap. The trigger wheel sits on a crank key way on the front of the crankshaft. If it doesnt look right. You will have to remove the intake, valve covers and oil pan to remove the timing cover to inspect the trigger wheel for wear, worn keyway, inspect timing chains etc. Big job. If it isnt referencing tdc correctly it can cause a random or loss of rpm signal to fire the coils. The cam sensor is also a reference for injector pusle width

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ok I'll see if I can see the wheel tomorrow. But on my scanner I get rpm readings while cranking
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

rpm yes, but is the trigger wheel out of time, shifted..... the metal is coming from somewhere and it would have to be close by for it to collect on the sensor. A little bit of debris isnt abnormal but you got a little more than a normal amount on there. The keyway that locks the wheel to the crank is a wear item and can wear over time. It also holds the crank pulley tight to the fron of the crankshaft

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Ok thanks I'll check afterwork tomorrow it's almost 11 here now
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

No problem, just get back when you can.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Hi I couldn't see into the hole to inspect the wheel so I ordered a borescope off line I will get back to you as soon as it comes in thanks
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

No problem, let me know when you can

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Hey so I got the borescope. I I turned the motor a few full rotations to see the wheel.. All the teeth look fine. Scope came with a pretty strong magnet attachment so I pushed and pulled on the wheel while rotating and it's tight... Also Im thinking even if the wheel was somehow off time it's rotating to provide rpm so it should still spark even if at the wrong time. .. . I pulled the front valve cover to check the gear for the camshaft position sensor and it also appears to be fine.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I'm starting to think maybe there is a current draw somewhere...maybe something that explains the lost of power to some of the interior fuses I mentioned... I'm all out of ideas. I refuse to buy another pcm unless I can prove what might be killing it.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Here is a layout of the fuse panel, from the fuses you are saying, a couple of them arent used, are for trailer lights, the horn, front & rear lights, so they shouldnt have an impact on how the vehicle performs.

Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Interior fuse panl id

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Yeah I know what they all go to it'd in the owners manual. Was jus easier to list numbers. . But fuse 20 and 3 Park lights and horn have no power and should. Do you have any manuals that show a correlation between them?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

park lights prob wont have power unless you turn headlamps on closing the parking lamp relay. Fuse 20 for the horn will only have power when the horn relay is closed when hitting the horn, does the horn work?Do the lights work?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Your right they all work totally makes sense .. I don't know then. Totally loss now. .. I'm guessing the wiring between the pcm and cam and crank sensors are ok because I have rpm readings and injectors are working. What would cause only the coil signal to stop working or at least what would fry the drivers??
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Well take a look at the fuse panel first, if you have fuses in a spot that isnt supposed to have one, you might have a fuse out of place. If that is ok, an overcharging altenator can cause the pcm to keep failing. You have no codes stored in the pcm memory codes or key on engine off on demand tests?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Only codes that were in the original pcm was the misfire for the original 2 this pcm hasn't even been started on the car so not the alternator. Checked both fuse panels twice. No codes on this pcm
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Just got a p0193 code
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok it means the fuel rail presure sensor reading is too high, is the sensor plugged in?

P0193 - Fuel Rail Pressure (FRP) Sensor Circuit High Input

Description:The comprehensive component monitor (CCM) monitors the FRP sensor circuit to the powertrain control module (PCM) for high voltage. If voltage exceeds a calibrated limit for a calibrated amount of time during testing, the test fails.

Possible Causes:

  • FRP signal shorted to VREF or VPWR
  • FRP signal open
  • Damaged FRP sensor

Diagnostic Aids:An FRP signal high condition can be caused by any number of conditions, including a short on FRP signal to VREF, a more positive voltage level, an open FRP signal or signal return. The FRP signal line is pulled up by the PCM and VREF at the sensor, and down by the sensor through SIGRTN.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Could this cause my problems or is it irrelevant?? If so how do I troubleshoot it
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Its possible, it depends on why the sensor is reading high, a scan tool can look at the fuel rail pressure and voltage and tell you what the PCM is getting reported from the sensor, If the fuel pressure reading is too high, need to verify with a mechanical fuel gauge if the pressure is actually high or if the sensor is biased and giving a false reading. If the sensor is unplugged or has a wiring issue it will read 5.00 volts. It doesnt say if this code will cause the coils to drop out which i dont think it would

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I don't think it's the problem I just ran the voltage and pressure it was a little higher than what the pcm was demanding but after turning the motor over a few times it dropped down to the pcm desired pressure. Think its just from so many attempted starts. Anything else you can think of I need to check?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok clear the codes and see if the code comes back. Run a key on engine off on demand test and key on engine running test and see what codes come back if any to start

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
No I cleared it no returns on Start attempts or test
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

It sets no codes on a key on engine off on demand test or key on engine running test???

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Nope
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Just the p1000
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

And you verified you have no blue spark on any of the other coils but good spark on number six. No pulse signal with a noidlight on any of the inoperative coils?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Yeah weird right lol?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Do you have good blue spark and no signal to fire the other coils when testing with a noid light? The injectors on the no spark cylinders have pulse?

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
All injectors have pulse and are operating. No spark or pulse on any cylinders but 6... Everything points to pcm right? But 3 in a row?? What's causing it?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

As I mentioned, overcharging altenator, short to power,wire harness issue, thats it. Have to verify all power and ground circuits to pcm. Since its not setting aany other codes, which is hard to believe with no coil driver operation. Only other thing I can think of that could cause an issue is a melted or damaged DPFE egr valve flow sensor.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I unplugged every sensor in the engine bay yesterday and no difference... Would it be wise to get another main engine harness from the junkyard from the same car I got the pcm? I heard this car run prior to pulling the pcm
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

At this point i cant give a solid recommendation but it is something you can try to eliminate a wiring issue

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
One more thing I noticed... The only time the noid light flashes is when I first flip the key to on. .. No matter how many times I do it it flashes on. Also if I have a spark plug grounded same thing it will spark bright blue... That makes me believe the pcm drivers are intact...
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
the wiring
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
For the coils
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

on all the coils or just the one that works?When you turn the key to on it gives one quick flash or it flashes when cranking?If the coil is firing outside the cylinder it should be firing unless the engine compression is low and/or cylinder is flooded out and drop compression

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Just one quick flash on 1-5.. cylinder 6 flashes while cranking
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ok no wiring or pcm.cant tell more from here without being in front of the vehicle

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I'm pretty good at theory of operation and wiring diagrams I'm an aircraft mechanic.. Pretty good one actually lol. Is there any literature you have on the operation of this ignition system. Something more in depth than a Haynes manual?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ignition Systems

Overview

The ignition system is designed to ignite the compressed air/fuel mixture in an internal combustion engine by a high voltage spark from an ignition coil. The ignition system also provides engine timing information to the powertrain control module (PCM) for proper vehicle operation and misfire detection.

Integrated Electronic Ignition (EI) System

The integrated EI system consists of a crankshaft position (CKP) sensor, coil pack(s), connecting wiring, and PCM. The coil-on-plug (COP) integrated EI system uses a separate coil per spark plug, and each coil is mounted directly onto the plug. The COP integrated EI system eliminates the need for spark plug wires, but does require input from the camshaft position (CMP) sensor. Operation of the components are as follows:

  1. Note: Electronic ignition engine timing is entirely controlled by the PCM. Electronic ignition engine timing is NOT adjustable. Do not attempt to check base timing. You will receive false readings.

    The CKP sensor is used to indicate the crankshaft position and speed by sensing a missing tooth on a pulse wheel mounted to the crankshaft. The CMP sensor is used by the COP integrated EI system to identify top dead center of compression of cylinder 1 to synchronize the firing of the individual coils.
  1. The PCM uses the CKP signal to calculate a spark target and then fires the coil pack(s) to that target shown. The PCM uses the CMP sensor, not COP integrated EI systems to identify top dead center of compression of cylinder 1 to synchronize the firing of the individual coils.
  1. The coils and coil packs receive their signal from the PCM to fire at a calculated spark target. Each coil within the pack fires 2 spark plugs at the same time. The plugs are paired so that as one fires during the compression stroke the other fires during the exhaust stroke. The next time the coil is fired the situation is reversed. The COP system fires only one spark plug per coil and only on the compression stroke.

    The PCM acts as an electronic switch to ground in the coil primary circuit. When the switch is closed, battery positive voltage (B+) applied to the coil primary circuit builds a magnetic field around the primary coil. When the switch opens, the power is interrupted and the primary field collapses inducing the high voltage in the secondary coil windings and the spark plug is fired. A kickback voltage spike occurs when the primary field collapses. The PCM uses this voltage spike to generate an ignition diagnostic monitor (IDM) signal. IDM communicates information by pulse width modulation in the PCM.
  1. The PCM processes the CKP signal and uses it to drive the tachometer as the clean tach out (CTO) signal.

    Figure 54: Integrated Electronic Ignition (EI) System (Refer to the On-Board Diagnostics Monitor System Overview for Icon Definitions.)

    Figure 55: Six Cylinder Integrated Electronic Ignition (EI) Waveforms. 4, 8, and 10-Cylinder are Similar.

Hardware

Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor

The CKP sensor is a magnetic transducer mounted on the engine block adjacent to a pulse wheel located on the crankshaft. By monitoring the crankshaft mounted pulse wheel, the CKP is the primary sensor for ignition information to the PCM. The pulse wheel has a total of 35 teeth spaced 10 degrees apart with one empty space for a missing tooth. The 6.8L 10-cylinder pulse wheel has 39 teeth spaced 9 degrees apart and one 9 degree empty space for a missing tooth. By monitoring the pulse wheel, the CKP sensor signal indicates crankshaft position and speed information to the PCM. By monitoring the missing tooth, the CKP sensor is also able to identify piston travel in order to synchronize the ignition system and provide a way of tracking the angular position of the crankshaft relative to a fixed reference for the CKP sensor configuration. The PCM also uses the CKP signal to determine if a misfire has occurred by measuring rapid decelerations between teeth.

Figure 56: Typical Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor (Actual Sensor May Vary)

Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor

The CMP sensor used by COP integrated EI system is a magnetic transducer mounted on the engine front cover adjacent to the camshaft. By monitoring a target on the camshaft sprocket, the CMP sensor identifies cylinder one to the PCM. The COP integrated EI system uses this information to synchronize the firing of the individual coils.

Figure 57: Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor

Coil Pack

Coil packs come in 4-tower, Series 5 4-tower, 6-tower horizontal connector and Series 5 6-tower models. Two adjacent coil towers share a common coil and are called a matched pair. For 6-tower coil pack (6 cylinder) applications the matched pairs are 1 and 5, 2 and 6, and 3 and 4. For 4-tower coil pack (4 cylinder) applications the matched pairs are 1 and 4, and 2 and 3.

When the coil is fired by the PCM, spark is delivered through the matched pair towers to their respective spark plugs. The spark plugs are fired simultaneously and are paired so that as one fires on the compression stroke, the other spark plug fires on the exhaust stroke. The next time the coil is fired the situation is reversed. The next pair of spark plugs fire according to the engine firing order.

Figure 58: Horizontal Connector 6-Tower Coil Pack

Figure 59: Series 5 6-Tower Coil Pack

Figure 60: Four-Tower Coil Packs

Coil On Plug (COP)

The COP ignition operates similar to standard coil pack ignition except each plug has one coil per plug. COP has 3 different modes of operation: engine crank, engine running, and CMP Failure Mode Effects Management (FMEM).

Engine Crank/Engine Running

During engine crank the PCM will fire 2 spark plugs simultaneously. Of the 2 plugs simultaneously fired one will be under compression the other will be on the exhaust stroke. Both plugs will fire until camshaft position is identified by a successful camshaft position (CMP) sensor signal. Once camshaft position is identified only the cylinder under compression will be fired.

CMP FMEM

During CMP FMEM the COP ignition works the same as during engine crank. This allows the engine to operate without the PCM knowing if cylinder one is under compression or exhaust.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
If I'm understanding this right even if something weird was going on if 6 is firing so should cylinder 2??
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

No, thats a generic ignition explanation, covering a coil pack, so it references companion cylinders next to each other. 1-4, 2-6, 3-5 for instane you use indiviudal coils

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I mean if I were getting spark on 2&6 I would think that maybe I have some bad teeth on pulse wheel that I somehow missed.. But it's operating totally understand logical
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Its a multi system explanation is all

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
It's says on engine crank it fires two plugs until the cam sensor identifies if it's tdc
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I think I'm one more night from sending it to the junkyard beside the one I pulled these parts from..
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Ya I hear ya, its gona fire in its firing order, I was merely seperating the fact the companion cylinders next to each other in a coil pack vs COPS

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
What would you do next or inspect?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

If the pcm is down again, need to find out why

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I jus spent the past 2 hours tearing out the main harness I inspected everything I ohmed out what I'm pretty sure is every wire I temp installed it and unplugged EVERYTHING from headlights to a/c to brake master cylinder... Same results.. Once quick flash when I turn the key... I thought it might be able shorted or frayed wire touching something but there is no indication of what might be shorting out the pcm
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Jus had a thought... Anyway to confirm that the power red wire is staying energized while cranking?? Would a test light work?.
Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Nevermind on the last part jus checked it's fine.. Also I unplugged the camshaft sensor and my scanner is still reading no fault for camshaft position.???
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Only other thing to check would be to try and swapout the eec/pcm power relay. If thats doesnt resolve it I am out of ideas to tell you to check without being able to inspect the vehicle.

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
Will do tomorrow
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

ok

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
p0193 code came back along with p0183
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

Change the frp sensor and retest

Customer: replied 6 months ago.
I unplugged them both and ohmed the wiring. ... Also opened up the pcm.. The drivers don't look blown like the ones I see on YouTube. I left the sensors unplugged and swapped the relay still no go.. Guess it's going to the junkyard tomorrow..
Expert:  HDGENE replied 6 months ago.

You wont see any damage to the pcm unless it has a major burn mark in it. Just because a part ohms ok isnt an accurate test. As engine temp increases, resistance of a sensor can increase. You had this code before for the fRP, it tells the pcm what the fuel pressure is and if an incorrect reading will put the engine into a different strategy to try and richen or lean the mixture, Not necessarily fix your problem. But a known fault code.