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Chris (aka- Moose)
Chris (aka- Moose), Technician
Category: Ford
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Experience:  16 years experience
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I have a 2005 Ford Five Hundred that I just had the

Customer Question

I have a 2005 Ford Five Hundred that I just had the transmission replaced and also replaced the throttle body. I thought I did the relearning process of the system, but not sure. So when I replaced the Throttle body, I had to retrofit the tube, because this new one didnt have a place for it to go. Anyways, today I drove it for about an hour, then parked it, then probably about 2-5 minutes later it stalls. What could be the problem?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Hello and thank you for your question,

What was the relearn procedure you performed ?

When it stalls, does it start right back up?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It struggles to start, but it does. I have been at red lights and it stalls, but like I said, it struggles to restart, but does.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

What was the re-learn procedure you performed after you replace the TB?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I had the battery unplugged for a few hours, I think the process was to start it up and get it warm for about 20min, then take it for a drive, not sure how long I took it for a drive.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Any time you replace the TB you need to disconnect both battery cables and touch them together to clear the PCM (computer) of its closed throttle values. After doing so then you want to connect them and start it and let it idle for about 20 minutes so it can re-learn the closed throttle values. If this is not how you did it then retry it this way. If the problem returns after doing so then we are going to need to scan the computer system and see if any fault codes set. Try the relearn again and let me know.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok, I will try it tonight. I didnt touch the battery cables together to reset the PCM, hopefully thats it. Can I take it to O'Reillys to pull any codes? How do I get it scanned?
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Doing so will totally clear all learned values and should resolve the problem if in fact that is the problem and it sure sounds like that to me. Yes, any part store will usually scan it for you at no charge. Lets try the re-learn first . Please take a moment to rate my service so I can get credit for my time, the question remains open for follow up even after doing so, all you need to do is return to this question if need be.

Thank you again.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, tried to relearn and idle so far is doing great. I took it for a drive, about 10 or so miles. Was just about to pull into traffic when my car hesitated big time. I gassed it a little slower and driving down the street, the car seems to be jittery, as in Im pressing on the gas and its like it doesn't know what to do. Im at a loss of what is happening.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Okay then lets get the system scanned and see if there are any fault code setting and we can work from there.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ive read places where what if its some sort of vacuum problem. How do I test that?
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

In most cases if you have a vacuum problem the computer will set and store a fault code and in order to know where to start your testing we need the code. Did you get it the code scan done?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Not yet, getting ready to head up there.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

That would be the next step. If there are fault codes that will give us some idea as to what may be causing the problem.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, just went to AutoZone and they turned on the car and their were no codes in there. So I guess my resetting of the PCM worked?
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Yes resetting it would have cleared any fault codes. What you are going to need to do now is drive it and see if something comes up. If in fact there is a fault, at some point the light will come on and a code will set.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I can tell you for a fact, that since Ive been having this problem, not check engine lights come on, nothing, it just stalls or like yesterday on my way home, the tachometer would jump all over the place if I pressed down on the gas. I finally could just get it to 70mph or slower without any issues, but if I tried to give it more gas, thats when it starts sputtering. I will say when the car is cold, it acts normal, but when Ive driven it like I did yesterday, thats when it starts to act up.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Sputtering can be caused by a few thing, an engine misfire, a drop in fuel pressure and or even a wiring concern. Makes it next to impossible to trace it down if its not setting any fault codes.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok, well I guess I need to take it to a mechanic
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Unfortunately that may be your best choice to avoid replacing any more unneeded parts. They can hook up a full scan tool and monitor the data stream while the problem is occurring and hopefully see what is failing.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I took it to the Ford Dealership and the technician has reproduced the problem, but no error codes are thrown. His original thought was, its the Throttle body, but I already replaced that, now he is questioning whether the transmission was installed correctly or not. At this point Im at a loss. I thought taking it to Ford would mean that they would know whats wrong.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

You would sure think the dealer would know how to correct this problem. What makes it very hard is the computer not setting any fault codes. Thats the part that dose not make since.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
here is what the Dealership tells me..They say is the mass airflow sensor..ok, fine, I haven't replaced that yet, but then they go on to tell me my air filter is dirty...BS (just replaced 2 weeks ago), then he goes on to say, we have to clean your throttle body, again BS (just replaced 2 weeks ago). So they are charging me for 3 hours of diagnostic work done, and replaced nothing.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

It is possible the MAF could cause this but in most cases it will set a fault code if in fact it is bad. I have my doubts and you also cleaned it as well did you not? It sounds to me like there guessing.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Clean the MAF? I did not, again the car does have 237k miles on it
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Okay , I had assumed you did this , if not then remove the negative battery cable and take some MAF cleaner and give it a good cleaning. With the amount of miles you have on it its very likely dirty. That just may do the trick and certainly worth trying.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, been doing some reading, if I unplug the MAF while the car is running, it should shut off the car? If it doesn't then the MAF is the culprit?
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

It will not always shut of the car and that is not an accurate test. Did you try cleaning it? In most cases if the MAF is bad, you will get a code.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
OK, the car is still at the shop, I got the customer relationship director involved to help decrease the cost of them doing the diagnostic testing, still waiting to hear back from them. I'm not in a real hurry to let it sit in my driveway. I did go to a junk yard and picked up a MAF so Im going to clean it, and see if that does the trick.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Okay post back wit the results and we ca work from there if need be. Hopefully they should be able to come up with the correct diagnosis.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, the saga continues. I put in a new MAF sensor and stepped through the relearning process and the car runs very rough now. I actually bought a scanner and its giving me a code P1000
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

The code P1000 simply means the drive cycle is not complete and has no affect on how the engine should run. Something is being overlooked here for sure. Im not sure what it is at this point.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, so now after relearning, or during the relearning process, the car runs very rough at this point. I actually bought a scan tool to hopefully help determine the problem. Idle is fine, but when I put it in drive and start to press on the accelerator it feels like its sputtering (is the only way I can describe it).
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Sputtering in most cases is caused by an engine misfire and if its missing at some point it should set a fault code.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
after driving it, the only code in there is P1000
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

That code only means the drive cycle has not completed. It will not affect engine performance.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, but something is sure affecting performance at this point, and no codes are being produced.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
what else can I check for?
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

At this point I am not sure, there nothing for me to go on. Im afraid at this point you are going to need some hands on testing. If you would like I can open the post back up for you in hopes someone else may have something new to offer.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
well if that is going to cost me any more money, I will have to decline.
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

It will not cost you any more money, you have not paid anything at this point beside what you have placed in your account. I am not paid anything unless you rate my service which you have not done.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, so go ahead and open the post back up, maybe someone else has an idea
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.

Doing so now.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
now Im getting P0302 and P0316, which may point to changing out my spark plugs. if I take this on, what else should I replace? Any gaskets, etc?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Found out that I had a bad coil on plug on cylinder number 2, not sputtering has stopped. Im now having a problem with when the car is warm, randomly stalls out. Im thinking next thing is to replace fuel filter, I really don't know if its ever been replaced.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Still having a stalling issue, but found out my fuel filter has never been changed after 237k miles, plus Im replacing the rest of my ignition coils.
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 1 year ago.

Welcome, I'm Chris (aka Moose). Experts aren't employees / agents of Just Answer. We are independent service providers using the Site to sell their Expert knowledge to Customers. I strive to provide EXCELLENT 5 STAR service, let me know what's needed from me so your pleased.

The previous tech has opted out. It seems your question is no longer what you originally asked. Can you write out what your question now is so Ic an answer that for you.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, so here is the situation now. Im getting no codes, I have changed the Throttle Body, MAF, EGR, spark plugs, fuel filter, Ignition coils (ALL). Went through the relearning process and felt like the car ran awesome. Let it sit for a little bit then drove it up to Walmart. The car started to stall out out me, this problem has been the same throughout the entire process. What is the best way to troubleshoot this issue with the car stalling out when warm?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 1 year ago.

Thanks, ***** ***** stalling while braking, coasting, or stopped in gear?

Will it stall in drive as well as park?

Will it restart easily?

What is the operating temp idle speed?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
1. It will only stall when the RPM is low, whether that is at a drive-thru or even in park.
2. Yes
3. Define easily, it will start, but its not normal turn the key and it starts right up action. Normally I can just turn the key and the car will fire right up, but if it stalls on my, it will take a few more revs of the engine to get it cranked up.
4. Not sure on the operating temp at idle speed, looking at the dashboard indicator it looks half way between cold and hot, like it always does.One thing Ive seen that could possibly help is to update the PCM to whatever the latest is. Driving it during the relearning process the car felt normal, but then I let it sit for a few hours and fire it back up, then it started acting up again. I can see the RPM needle jumping around, but only when its under 700 or so RPM's
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 1 year ago.

Thanks, ***** ***** a link to a TSB for this concern. You have already replaced the throttle body, so now you need to have the PCM reprogrammed by a dealer level diagnostic tool.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90220402/500TSB.pdf

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Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, getting close, I did get my PCM updated and the mechanic said that he is now getting some pressure for fuel with his gauge. I have a fuel pressure tester, but where and how do I hook it up to test the fuel pressure. All the connections I have are screw in types.
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 1 year ago.

This model does not have a test port. You have to use a scan tool to check the pressure or disconnect the fuel line and use a T section to have a connection for your tester.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
When I took it to the mechanic, he must of had something that he used to hook up a fuel pressure tester, because he didnt believe what the scan tool was telling him. How accurate is the scan tool when it comes to fuel pressure test? Is there a way to create something that allows me to physically test the fuel pressure? Im not so sure I trust what the scan tool is saying either. So doing more research and fixating in on STFTR and LTFTR readings, LTFTR is sitting at +10, which is a LEAN reading which could point to the Fuel Pump (Weak)?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 1 year ago.

The scan tool pressure reading is only as accurate as the fuel pressure sensor on the vehicle. Though the computer uses that pressure reading to determine how it should control the pump so the pressure sensor needs to be accurate. I have a T fitting that I install into the fuel line pre injectors to check the pressure manually. Long term trim at plus 10 means it is adding more fuel because the O2 sensors are reading to much left over oxygen in the exhaust. Low pressure from the pump or vacuum leaks are the main reasons for that but the trim specs are +/-10