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Mike S.
Mike S., ASE Certified Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 6812
Experience:  ASE Certified Master Technician
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1994 Taurus wgn with 3.0 last sat it stalled on me and the

Customer Question

1994 Taurus wgn with 3.0
last sat it stalled on me and the fuel pump ran continuous. in this condition it will turn over but not start. I checked and have fuel pressure.
if I turn key on and of on and off ....after a few tries the fuel pump will shut off then the car will start...if I let it run for a few min it will stall and the fuel pump will be running. I can repeat this and get it running again.
driving it would be risky of course.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Replace the fuel pump relay and try that. It sounds like it is sticking closed.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
why wont the car start if the fuel pump is running
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

You said it was always running, like it would not shut off.

You said you checked the fuel pressure, what was it?

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

If you don't want to replace the relay, let me know. Cause you can do some more testing with a voltmeter or 12 volt test light. It might even be an ignition switch that is at fault but I just thought it would be easier to eliminate the relay for now.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I checked for any fuel pressure at the schrader valve while on side of road. so I do not know the psi. all I know is when I got it started again I drove back home ...less than 1 1/2 mile
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, actually you don't even have to purchase a relay is you have a spare you can swap out.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
let me give you a little history...
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

ok

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
it used to some times not start...could not hear fuel pump come on...found out that if I rapped on the place where the relay was(ccem?) then you could hear the fuel pump come on and stop then the car would stop...only had to do this occasionally...
finally this would no longer work so I replace it and car worked fine.............
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

So you already replaced the fuel pump relay once?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that was about a year ago...this summer the car over heated and I found that the cooling fan was not coming on any more after the car got to a certain temp usually after sitting at a stop light with ac on ...meaning if the car got hotter than norm the fan would no longer run till the car was cooled back down...In replaced the fan and had same prob... it ran ok in winter but in summer my prob cam back...yes I replaced the temp sensors...finally I replaced the mechanical thermostat and prob seemed to go away for a while but cam back again...so just to be safe I hot wired the fan with a switch so I could at least drive it without killing engine by overheat........
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I am reading that this has 2 fuel pumps, a high speed and low speed.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I read some stuff here on the net about others who had this prob and said it was the pcm.. and one place said to check the map sensor ....seems no one came back with the resolved issues....whats you take on this? yes I replaced the fuel pump relay from what I understand it to be inside the ccm is that right?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
you still there?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
sorry my wi fi went out for a moment
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
hello
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Yeah, I am here.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Sorry. My wifi went out for a moment. You still there
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

What do you mean by ccm?

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I would have to look that up.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Can you keep it running long enough to get it to an auto-parts store and retrieve the codes from the computer modules?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the module up near the radiator... mounted black box with a wire harness with a bunch of pin connectors in it
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Wait, hold on. This is a 94? Those codes won't be of much good.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I am trying to read more on those 2 fuel pumps right now. Are you aware it has 2?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I don't recall 2 fuel pump when I replaced it years ago is it one with 2 speeds?
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, maybe that was it. The reason I asked cause I seen something about primary and secondary fuel pump circuits.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, maybe I should back up here. I have to ask, is this the flex fuel 3.0, the vin U 3.0 or vin y (dual ohc show)?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I just found out I got to take my kid to a friends house so they can work on a school project ...so I have to go now ..if you find anything out will you be able to still tell me? and it s a 1994 ford Wagon 3.0 plain I guess I had an 1980 ford wagon that said GL on it. this one just says Taurus
I can see e mails on my phone too.
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

ok, I will. But I can tell what the engine vin is by the vin under the windshield. So whenever you get that let me know that 17 digit vin.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
1FALP57U7RA149727
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, it's a vin U.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I found an interesting technical service bulletin,

Although it doesn't explain all of the problem it might be some of it. It explains that "stalling at low vehicle speed, idling and/or a no start condition may occur on some vehicles in hot ambient temperatures and/or high altitudes.

In addition, a no start may result while the engine is still hot and the vehicle has been parked for a short period. A stall may also occur when moving the vehicle from idle. This may be caused by a lack of vapor ports in the fuel pump, resulting in a vapor lock condition or internal high wear of the fuel pump components due to tank contaminants."

It says to, "replace the fuel pump with a new turbine fuel pump."

.'

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Im wondering why the fuel pump would run continuous when normal it would stop when it got up to pressure.... And when it is running continuous the car can turn over but not start. I also wonder is this linked to why when the car would get to a higher than normal temp then the cooling dan will not come on any more. I can let car run in driveway and the fan will cycle on and off as needed for a long time... If i pull the plug on the fan or block the air flow to radiator to let car get a little hotter then the fan wont work and the car will over heat if not cruising down the road.. The fan has two speeds and the fan would come on and them go off at engine key on position just like the fuel pump.... Im gonna go plug fan back in and see if the fan runs continuous at the same the fuel pump runs continuous just to see.
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

No, the fuel pump isn't suppose to stop when it gets up to pressure. The fuel pump is supposed to run all the time the engine is running.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

if the fuel pump is running but the engine don't start, you need to check the actual fuel pressure psi, cause the pump may be running, but it might be pushing air through the fuel line and not gas.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

It's starting to sound more and more like a computer module problem.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I don't understand what you just said, "If i pull the plug on the fan or block the air flow to radiator to let car get a little hotter then the fan wont work and the car will over heat". If you unplug the fan then of course the fan won't come on and the engine will overheat.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok im back now and i went out and hooked the plug back in to the fan... I turned the key till the fuel pump turned on then turned off which meant that it will start... I started it and let it idle till it stalled... In this condition it had the fuel pump continuously running and the cooling fan running also.. What do you make of this?...
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, somehow you are going to have to test when this problem occurs, the wire from the computer to the relay so let me get a wiring diagram first.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

That vin decodes as a GL, also so here is that wiring diagram.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

You will have to go down to figures 5 and 6.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I do see both the fuel pump and cooling fans are hooked to that "constant control relay module".

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, first of all, forget about a fuel pump relay cause I don't see one.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I see that constant control relay module gets voltage all the time from the "pcm relay/fuel pump" fuse in the engine compartment fuse box.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

The fuel pump gets it's power from the powertrain control module but the pcm relies on something else to tell it to give the fuel pump power and I am assuming it is that constant control relay module.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Did you replace the entire ccm or like you said just the fuel pump relay? I am not familiar of just what is inside that ccm, so bare with me while I read some more.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Actually I see 2 wires to the fuel pump, one from the pcm and one from the ccm. I have to look up which feeds what?

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I suppose at this point since both of the problems are most likely electric and they are both probably related, it would be best to retrieve the codes now. I know Ford has key on and key off engine running or not tests. If you need to know exactly how to retrieve these codes just ask. I do see though a code P0482 which does refer to Key on or engine running; and the PCM detected an unexpected high or low voltage condition on the High Fan Control (HFC) relay control circuit (located inside the CCRM) during the CCM test period. Possible causes of this are FC relay control circuit is open, FC relay control circuit is shorted to chassis ground, FC relay power supply (VPWR) circuit is open and FC relay direct battery (B+) circuit is open pr the pcm has failed.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I Don't know what all that Just Meant in you last post.
the post I wrote at 12;20 mark ....
what I meant was if I let the car warm up in the driveway before this new prob....as it warmed up and I let it run till the engine temp gets to normal, the cooling fan would come on and cool and then shut off . as the engine temp would rise the fan would again come on and cool the engine and shut off again no prob.....if I cover the radiator to block air flow or unplug the fan to let the engine temp get a little higher then the fan will not work in the higher engine temp range and will over heat...meaning if I plug the fan back in it wont work... not until the car has cooled down will it work again cycling on and off as needed like its supposed to.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
be back later ...i have got to go pick up my son
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

yeah, I was just mostly thinking out loud.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

You said it again, " or unplug the fan to let the engine temp get a little higher then the fan will not work' If you unplug the fan, of course it won't work.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Oh, plug it back in. Ok.

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

It sounds to me as though one of those fan speeds isn't working and probably the high speed. Change the high speed relay, don't swap it, change it, meaning buy a brand new one. Unless of course there is no relay and it's all within that ccrm.

You never did answer that questions, did you replace the entire ccrm?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
replaced the entire ccrm...some $80.00 or so
The high and low on the fan work becausei did th bothe by hot wire hooked to battey....and it blows on low in the car reg and then on high when you turn on the air conditioning
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
replaced the entire ccrm...some $80.00 or so
The high and low on the fan seems work because i did a test by hot wire hooked to battery on the hi and low leads(worked fine)....and when the fan is hooked up proper in the car it blows on low in reg cooling and then on high when you turn on the air conditioning.
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, let's retrieve the codes next.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Cannot keep the car running long enough to get flashing check engine light codes
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, what about the key on engine off (KOEO) codes?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How do I do that?
is there an instructional on U tube? ill check around
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

How were you attempting to check the key on engine running codes?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i was gonna use a jumper wire after the car was warmed up ...cant keep it from stalling out. here is the link
http://youtu.be/nl2lqqS7vvE
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

here is the diagram,

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

And the KOEO & KOER SELF-TEST

Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Interesting video

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
http://timthetechnician.blogspot.com/2013/03/its-been-while-since-ive-been-able-to.html?m=1I just cam across this
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Did you try that fix?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No not yet... Still trying to understand it.... Im searching for some mention about a map sensor related to the computer... Ill send link when i find it
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I read this had a maf sensor not a map sensor. usually they have one or the other.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
http://www.fordforumsonline.com/threads/1994-taurus-no-spark-fan-fuel-pump-issues-not-ccrm.3717/This not exactly the one im looking for but it has some of the same symptoms
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, I see near the bottom someone said to disconnect the Cooling Fan Temperature Switch (CFTS) and if the fan stops running it that switch. try that, at least for the fan.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-maintenance-repair/165287-new-guy-here-no-start-95-3-8-taurus-sedan.html#/forumsite/20664/topics/165287?page=1Still not the one. But.....
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

Ok, so what do you want to do for now?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
you there?...I had some time today finally to do some messing around with the Taurus wagon
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I would work the car ignition switch to get a point where the fuel pump would stop and the car would stop and fuel pump would start running continuous again when the engine would stall. Id get it started again and let it idle and time it. it would run for about 26-28 seconds and then cut out....I did this several times with same result...so this time I would work the ignition/key till it would be ready to start and Id wait to see if some thing would happen at 26-28 seconds and it did.... the fuel pump and fan would turn on and run continuous... right before this would happen id hear and feel a click in the CCRM .
what part would signal the CCRM to do its thing?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I would work the car ignition switch to get a point where the fuel pump would stop and the car would start, run and then stall and fuel pump would start running continuous again when the engine would stall. Id get it started again and let it idle and time it with a stop watch. it would run for about 26-28 seconds and then cut out....I did this several times with same result...so this time I would work the ignition/key till it would be ready to start and Id wait to see if some thing would happen at 26-28 seconds and it did.... the fuel pump and fan would turn on and run continuous... right before this would happen id hear and feel a click in the CCRM .
what part would signal the CCRM to do its thing?
Expert:  Mike S. replied 1 year ago.

I don't know. I think you should retrieve the key on engine off codes for now and replace the ignition switch.