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HDGENE
HDGENE, Ford Senior Master/Diesel/Trans
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 4933
Experience:  25 years Auto experience, Ford ,GM, Chrysler, Asian & European
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Expedition: I have a 2012 ford expedition 5.4 and coming back

Customer Question

I have a 2012 ford expedition 5.4 and coming back from a road trip it got real sluggish (low power) it has 111000 miles on it took it to a local shop they could not find anything wrong with it. Check engine light is not on and had it scanned anyway and no codes in it. First thing in the morning it seems to be better but still not its normal power but the hotter it gets the worse it gets. any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.
Hello and thank you for your question, I would start with having the fuel pressure checked while the problem is occurring, The problem you are describing sounds like you may have a weak and failing fuel pump. When the pump becomes weak it will tend to over heat in after extended driving in warmer weather and when this happens it will cause a drop in fuel pressure and a loss of power. Usually after it has had a chance to cool down the problem will clear. Normal pressure needs to be right at 55 to 60 PSI and if its dropping below 55 then your pump is failing. Have them check this and post back if you need more help and we can work from there. It not uncommon for a weak pump to not set any fault codes.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok I will have the fuel pressure checked cold and hot and see what it has and get back to you.

Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.
You going to want to check it while the problem is occurring. I'm here everyday so post back with the results and we can work from there.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

The problem occurs all the time it is sluggish its just better in the morning then after I drive it for a few miles.

Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.
Okay then monitor the fuel pressure when its feeling sluggish, If it looks okay then have them also check the exhaust back pressure to be sure there is no restrictions in the Catalytic converters.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

cold koeo 54 koer 56

Hot is the same drove down the road while it was acting sluggish and the pressure stayed between 54-57 depending on how hard i got on in to pull a hill. and the converters where replaced about 20,000 miles ago due to the rotten egg smell coming from the exhaust.

Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.
Okay has the computer been scanned and if so are there any fault codes setting?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

No fault codes at all.

Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.
Okay if you loosing power and the fuel pressure is okay then I would check the exhaust back pressure next.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

It has been checked and it was fine

Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.
Well something is sure being over looked here, a lack of power is usually either fuel pressure and or restricted exhaust or a timing concern, with out any fault codes I'm afraid I can not do much more from here. I can open the question back up for you if you would like, maybe someone else will have a new to offer.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok if you think someone else might have a answer since I have been trying to get this figured out for months now even ford dealer says they can't figure it out.

Expert:  Ron replied 1 year ago.
Opening it back up now. hopefully someone will have something new to offer.
Expert:  EricFromCT replied 1 year ago.
Hi. New expert here. This is common on a 5.4 3 valve with high mileage. When was the last time the spark plugs were replaced?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok thanks

Expert:  EricFromCT replied 1 year ago.
Hi. New expert here. This is common on a 5.4 3 valve with high mileage. When was the last time the spark plugs were replaced?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

about 500 miles ago when this problem started the plugs boots and mass air flow where changed and it made no difference.

Expert:  EricFromCT replied 1 year ago.
I would have bet money that you need spark plugs from that description. Was anything else done or replaced to try and fix this?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

so you are saying the plugs need to be changed again even though they only have 500 miles on them

Expert:  EricFromCT replied 1 year ago.
I am not saying that. Did you do or replace anything else to try and fix this?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

The only other thing was the converters where replaced about 20,000 mile ago due to rotten egg smell and we put 93 octane gas in it and a lucas gas treatment because originally it started this right after we had fueled at a station in Florida before we drove back to Alabama.And just so you know the plugs and boots and mass air flow where all motorcraft parts we did not use aftermarket stuff. The mass air flow was changed because the dealership said it had low readings.

Expert:  EricFromCT replied 1 year ago.
I was going to say to check for plugged cats. How much fuel have you run through it since the fill up where this started happening?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

last night we temp removed the cats and straight piped it with no change in how it runs so we put cats back on. and I have went through 4 tanks of 93 octane since this problem started. which I have noticed along with the lack of power it is also getting really bad fuel mileage. and the problem seems to be getting worse this morning it barley wants to move when you hit the throttle it took almost a half mile to get to 45 mph.

Expert:  EricFromCT replied 1 year ago.
Ok. I am not sure what you have going on. I will open the question back up to other experts. Please do not respond or it will lock the question to me. Thanks.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 1 year ago.
Hello, are you by chance using a K&N style oiled air filter?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No I am using a stock air filter
Expert:  HDGENE replied 1 year ago.
Ok and ther lack of power concern only happens when hot? DO you know what the fuel trims were. Lean? erratic?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No the lack of power is all the time it's just worse when hot but I do not remember what the fuel trim where but I can look at them tomorrow
Expert:  HDGENE replied 1 year ago.
Post your vin number and ill check a few other things related to your vehicle
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
1FMJK1K51CEF00927
Expert:  HDGENE replied 1 year ago.
Ok from what im reading and factoring in the vehicles mileage im willing to say that you are most likely having an issue with the variable camshaft timing system. This is a very common issue with these engines using camshaft phasers which advance and retard engine timing based on load. It can be related to the cam phasers themselves or possibly due to a base engine concern with low engine oil pressure because the phasers are regulated by engine oil pressure. The #5 main bearing cap has a thrust washer which wears over time and cause a loss of oil pressure. So first thing to do would be to make sure it is full of oil and the correct grade and a motorcraft oil filter. Perform an engine oil pressure test which will be a minimum of 15 psi at idle and approx 60 psi hot at 2000 rpm. if the base oil pressure is ok then based on what fuel trims are reading would indicate an issue with a cam phaser operation even if it isnt setting a code P0012 or P0022
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

dont the phaser normally make noise when they are bad or have low oil pressure?

Expert:  HDGENE replied 1 year ago.
Usually yes, but not always, depends on the amount of oil pressure
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

oil pressure cold @ idle 60, Hot @ idle 25, hot @ 2000 rpm between 55-60 fuel trim long term cold bank 1 -0.8 bank 2 +2.2 short term bank 1 -10.1 and bank 2 -10.1 Hot long term bank 1 +6.3 bank 2 +4.6

short term hot bank 1 between -0.7 to + 0.8 bank 2 between 0.0 to +1.6

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Relist