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Chris (aka- Moose)
Chris (aka- Moose), Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 32947
Experience:  16 years experience with Ford.
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Ford Explorer XLT 2wd: 2003 Ford Explorer 2wd XLT, 4.0 SOHC,

Resolved Question:

2003 Ford Explorer 2wd XLT, 4.0 SOHC, automatic. I am replacing the engine and could not get the engine and transmission to seat together. The torque converter was not moved while the engine was not in place.

Everything appeared to be aligned well and the TC plate studs were thru the flex plate. I used the engine to trans mounting bolts to draw the assemblies together but noticed with about 1/8 to 1/4 inch still to go, the engine had become locked to the trans.

I have removed the engine and cannot see anything that would cause a problem. I have read that the input shaft can get out of position and cause this type of issue. Is there a way to check for this? Without the engine in place the TC turns easily.

In addition to wanting to know how to get the engine in place, I wonder if I may have damaged the transmission or TC while "forcing them together....."

Thanks,
Ned
Submitted: 9 months ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  A. Penland replied 9 months ago.

Hello and thanks for using JustAnswer.I will try my best to help you with your question.

 

The torque converter could have slid a little off the input shaft and fluid pump of the transmission.

Try seating the torque converter into the transmission by holding the nub sticking off the center of the torque converter on the side where the studs are at and support it with one hand and turn the converter while wiggling it into the transmission. The torque converter will seat 1/2" to 3/4" into the bell housing.

 

Also tell me how tight did you force the engine and trans together.

Did you draw the transmission completely to the engine or just one side?

A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 4586
Experience: ASE Master Certified, ASE Advanced Gasoline Engine Performance
A. Penland and other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 9 months ago.


I believe the TC is seated but I will try again in the morning as the car is outside. I will also measure the distance from the TC stud seating surface to the face of the Trans and the similar dim. on the engine. That should confirm the TC is seated.


 


The engine and trans were forced fairly close on both sides. I would estimate about 1/8th to 1/4th inch on the bottom and1/4th to 3/8ths on the top. Also the TC turns ok but does not seem to just pull out. I was not in a good position to pull very much but will try that in the morning also.


 


What parts would be taking the force? I assume if the TC is not seated the end surface of the pump drive (?) would take the load into the pump gear. If this was the case, what would be likely to be damaged?


 


Thanks for your help!


 


Ned

Expert:  A. Penland replied 9 months ago.

The fluid pump would be get the brunt of the damage. The torque converter has cuts, one on each side of the snout that slides into the pump/ If they are not in the proper position, and are forced into the pump, the pump would get damaged and crack.

If the new engine came with a flywheel, also make sure that you use the original flywheel for the vehicle or make sure it matches the original.

Also, if the input shaft is not in the proper slpines, it can damage te input shaft or the drum inside it connects to.

 

Customer: replied 9 months ago.


Thanks for the info on the fluid pump. Again, I believe the drive slots were aligned.


 


The Flexplate, Torque Converted, and transmission (Including the input shaft) were all from the vehicle being repaired, not from the new engine.


None of them were removed or moved, to my knowledge, while the engine was out.


 

Customer: replied 9 months ago.


Thanks for the info on the fluid pump. Again, I believe the drive slots were aligned.


 


The Flexplate, is from the original engine/transmission assembly and the Torque Converter and transmission (Including the input shaft) were all from the vehicle being repaired, not from the new engine.


 


The flexplate was transferred from the old to the new engine but the other parts were not removed or moved, while the engine was out.


 


I have measured the distances form the mating surface of the flexplate to the engine and the torque converter to the transmission and both are 1 3/8". Indicating to me that the interference is likely at the input shaft. Are you aware of difficulties getting the input shaft to go into it's proper location?


 


Take a look at this thread, Post #19 starts the "good" part...


 


http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274525


 


Edited to and added to..........


 

Expert:  A. Penland replied 9 months ago.
Make sure the input shaft is installed properly. Make sure you have the proper end in the transmission.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.


Sorry, I'll have to find another expert. I can't seem to make you understand that I NEVER had the input shaft out of the transmission so it cannot be installed improperly. Same goes for all of your other suggestions/comments.


 


Have a good day,


Ned

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 9 months ago.

Hi, I’m Chris. Welcome and thanks for asking your question!

 

Ned do you still need some help, I noticed you already paid the prior tech that has opted out?

 

Customer: replied 9 months ago.


I still have the problem but I was unable to get any useful information from the previous tech. I must not be explaining my problem well enough...


 


It seems I get reasonable answers about half the time on here. I am planning on trying to find some one local who can look at what I have and tell me if I need to have the transmission worked on or if it will be ok.


As an update, I have removed the Torque Converter and the input (smaller shaft) will turn but the larger hollow one will not. I believe the larger one could have been jammed into the guts of the tranny when I tried to force the engine and trans together. I can see no signs of burrs or scratches on any of the mating parts (shafts or TC) but something would not let the engine mate with the trans. The input shaft will slide out of the trans, I moved it only a bit, not disengaging it or rotating it, and then pushed it back in.


 


Thanks, XXXXX XXXXX nice evening,


Ned

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 9 months ago.

Ned when you remove the engine, the converter hung up on the flex plate a little and it slide out a little. On the end of the converter you will notice 2 flat spots, those lock the converter to the pump gear. This is the hardest thing to get the converter to lock into. You have the input shaft (the one that slides in and out) the pump snout (the hollow tube that does not move) then the pump gear, hidden by the seal only accessed from the other side of the pump.

 

You need to remove the transmission and make sure the input shaft seats fully where as only about 3/4 inch of the splines are visible. now put the converter on and turn it back and forth till you get that final clunk where it drops all the way in. When all the way in the converter is about 1/8 inch from the case, just about to rub.

 

Now install the engine and line it up with the bell housing bolts, When you have a 1/2 inch gap, then line up the flex plate holes to the converter. Tighten up the bell housing. When fully tight, there should be a 1/8 -3/16 inch gap between the converter and flex plate.

 

When you tried to install the engine if you did not torque the engine down hard, at the bell housing then odds are you did no damage. If there is damage it would be a broken pump gear meaning a new pump.

 

Let me know if that helps and if I fully addressed your concern.

 

Customer: replied 9 months ago.

 


You need to remove the transmission and make sure the input shaft seats fully where as only about 3/4 inch of the splines are visible.


 


If the transmission in the vehicle with the engine removed, do I still have to remove the transmission? Doesn't make sense to me... I can measure this with the transmission in the car or not, can't I?


 


now put the converter on and turn it back and forth till you get that final clunk where it drops all the way in. When all the way in the converter is about 1/8 inch from the case, just about to rub.


 


Boy, I'm pretty sure that's the way it was when I tried to put the engine in.


 


 


Now install the engine and line it up with the bell housing bolts, When you have a 1/2 inch gap, then line up the flex plate holes to the converter. Tighten up the bell housing. When fully tight, there should be a 1/8 -3/16 inch gap between the converter and flex plate.


 


Good information! That will help a lot!!!!! The 1/8 to 3/16 inch gap between the converter and flex plate rings a bell. I thought the converter studs were fully seated while there was still a bit of a gap between the engine and trans.


 


When you tried to install the engine if you did not torque the engine down hard, at the bell housing then odds are you did no damage. If there is damage it would be a broken pump gear meaning a new pump.


 


Is there a way to check for the broken pump gear? Can the pump be replaced with the transmission in the car thru the bell housing or must the transmission be out of the car? Is this an easy replacement, do a bunch of little parts fall out? Are special tools etc. required?


 


Thanks,


Ned

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 9 months ago.

You need to remove the transmission and make sure the input shaft seats fully where as only about 3/4 inch of the splines are visible.

 

Transmission should of been converter, sorry.

 

When the engine and trans are tight, the converter and flex plate have a small gap between them, when you install the converter nuts, it pulls the converter up tight.

 

Yes/no can you replace the pump with the trans sitting under the vehicle. Often when you pull it out while the trans is horizontal, the pump pulls some of the guys out with it, which then make it really hard to get everything loaded back in and splined together. Transmissions are built vertical with the bell housing aiming up. The only special tool needed is a slide hammer and bracket that grabs that snout to pull the pump out of the case.

Chris (aka- Moose), Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 32947
Experience: 16 years experience with Ford.
Chris (aka- Moose) and other Ford Specialists are ready to help you

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