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Steve
Steve, Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 6841
Experience:  25 years working for Ford dealer. Ford Master tech.
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1997 Ford F250: 5.4 it cranks but wont start..cam..injectors..volt

Customer Question

I have a 1997 Ford F250 with a 5.4 it cranks but wont start. I have replaced the cam and crank sensors but I dont have any prark, injectors, fuel pump or 5 volt reference at any of my sensors
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Steve replied 2 years ago.

Steve :

Hello and Welcome to Justanswer, My name is Steve and I am here to try and assist your with your question

Steve :

Sounds like a bad computer by all the symptoms you have of no 5 volt reference and no spark and fuel

Customer :

I need all the help I can get on this one

Steve :

Sounds like a bad computer by all the symptoms you have of no 5 volt reference and no spark and fuel

Customer :

I have installed a used PCM

Steve :

You could also have a bad relay to the computer. I would replace this first before the computer

Steve :

I see you have already replaced the computer

Customer :

where is it located because I have also replaced a few relays?

Steve :

It is located in the fuse box under the hood or were the engine is

Customer :

okay, what should I do if I replace the relay but problem still exsists?

Customer :

could a shorted sensor cause this problem?

Steve :

Yes it could I have seen the dpfe sensor cause this concern. Unplug it and see if it will start.

Customer :

okay

Steve :

any sensor requires reference voltage could cause this

Customer :

I just unplugged the DPFE and it is doing the samething

Steve :

Most common is the dpfe sensor or delta feedback for the egr system. Tells the computer were the egr is Do you know where it is located?

Customer :

no

Steve :

what is it doing?

Customer :

it cranks but dont start.

Customer :

oh, the DPFE is on the left side of the engine and it had vaccume lines going to it, correct?

Steve :

remove the plastic cover over the top of the engine three 10mm bolts on the drivers side is a silver box with two hoses attached to the bottom and a three wire connector unplug it

Customer :

okay

Steve :

yes

Steve :

And if that does not work unplug the tp sensor or throttle position sensor

Customer :

I have already done that

Customer :

I have unplugged all the sensors from the throttle body and on the left side of the engine

Steve :

Ther is one other sensor it is located on the gas tank it is a ftp sensor or fuel tank pressure sensor

Steve :

You will see three wires coming out of a connector unplug it and see if it will start.

Customer :

okay, be right back

Steve :

k

Customer :

are you still there?

Customer :

same results. It cranks but no start

Customer :

HELLO

Steve :

hi

Steve :

yes I am here

Customer :

same results, cranks but no start

Steve :

need to see if the check engine light comes on with the key is on let me know

Customer :

it doesnt come on at all

Steve :

If it does not come on then it is a power or ground concern to the computer

Customer :

and I cant pull DTC's with our scan tool

Steve :

Ok that answers the question you are missing power are ground

Steve :

need to check the fuse and replace the computer relay to start

Customer :

can you tell me which pins are the ones that should have power and ground to the PCM?

Steve :

Fist I want you to check pin 16 at the test connector for power

Customer :

if I dont have power there then what?

Steve :

then you have a blown fuse

Customer :

okay, brb

Steve :

do you know wher the fuse and relay are located?

Customer :

no

Customer :

pin 16 at thePCM is grounded and doent have power

Steve :

ok I will get you locations hang on

Customer :

thanks

Steve :

your welcome

Steve :

this is the fuse box under the hood

Steve :

replace the eec power relay with the horn relay and see if it starts

Customer :

okay, would that cause pins 16 to ground

Steve :

the fuse is in location number 24 is it blown?

Customer :

all fuses are good

Steve :

no power to it is the cigar fuse

Steve :

under the dash

Customer :

let me check

Steve :

k

Customer :

I do have power to the cigar lighter

Steve :

are you sure it is pin 16

Steve :

and did you swp out the relau

Customer :

yes I did

Steve :

and the fuse numb 24

Steve :

Then you may have a ground concern it comes off the ground wire to the body small wire is it attached and cleaned

Steve :

need to check the fuse under the dash

Customer :

fuse 24 was good

Steve :

also goes to the ign system and the pcm relay

Steve :

need to check the fuse under the dash

Steve :

Ill get a diagram and number

Customer :

okay

Steve :

fuse number 30 and fuse number 20

Steve :

fuse number 30 is a 30 amp fuse this is the fuse that is blown

Customer :

where is this fuse box located?

Customer :

is this the fuse box under the dash?

Steve :

yes it is the fuse box under the dash see the pics

Customer :

yes sir. I have checked all the fuses in that box and they are ll good

Customer :

oh, I have power to my coils but no groung

Steve :

Then it is a ground problem need to check computer ground off of the negative battery cable. Small wire goes to the body make sure it is tight and clean

Customer :

it is tight and clean

Steve :

then I will send you powe and ground pins to check you are missing one of the two

Customer :

okay

Steve :

ground is pin 3,21,51,77,103 power pins are 37,55,71.

Customer :

okay thanks

Steve :

The pins are numberd on the connector

Steve :

your welcome

Steve :

do you want a wiring diagram

Customer :

yeah sure

Customer :

thank you

Steve :

one more for you for pins and locations

Steve :

This is all I have

Steve :

are there any other questions on your concern?

Steve :

If you do not have any further questions please press the green accept button thanks.

Customer :

I am checking my power and ground

Steve :

k let me know if you have futher questions and check out the pics I sent you on the pins

Steve :

here is the pinpoint test from the workshop manuale

Steve :
QA: Unable To Activate Self-Test/SCP Communication Error/DTC Not Listed
[IMAGE][SRC][/SRC][ALT][/ALT][WIDTH]100[/WIDTH][HEIGHT]100[/HEIGHT][STYLE][/STYLE][/IMAGE] QA: Introduction

QA1 VERIFY SELF-TEST PROCEDURE

    • Unable to access Continuous Memory DTCs.
    • Unable to activate KOEO Self-Test.
    • Unable to activate KOER Self-Test.
    • Scan Tool communication concern.
    • DTC displayed by Scan Tool not listed.
    • Power Take Off (PTO), if equipped.
    • Damaged DLC.
    • Incorrect Self-Test procedure.
    • VREF is not in specification.
    • Idle RPM out of specification.
    • Open in DLC harness circuit.
    • Short in DLC harness circuit.
    • Damaged PCM power relay circuit.
    • Damaged PCM.
    • PTO circuit, if equipped.
  • Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P1001 indicates that Key On Engine Running (KOER) self-test cannot be completed.

    This Pinpoint Test addresses the following concerns:

    Possible causes:

  • Key off.
  • Disconnect Scan Tool from DLC. Inspect DLC for damage. Service as necessary.
  • PTO switch/actuator in OFF position.
  • Verify that the correct procedure was used to activate CONT, KOEO or KOER Self-Test for the Scan Tool (refer to Section 2A, Diagnostic Methods ).
Was the correct Self-Test procedure used?
Yes No
Correct procedure was used for activating Self-Test. GO to QA2 . Correct procedure was not used for activating Self-Test. RETURN to Section 4A, Diagnostic Subroutines , and COMPLETE Self-Test using the correct procedure.

QA2 CHECK FOR VREF AT TP SENSOR

  • Key off.
  • Throttle Position sensor disconnected.
  • Key on, engine off.
  • Measure voltage between VREF and SIG RTN circuits at the TP sensor vehicle harness connector.
  • Key off.
Was the voltage between 4.0 and 6.0 volts?
Yes No
Voltage is in specification. RECONNECT the TP sensor. GO to QA3 . Voltage is not in specification. RECONNECT the TP sensor. GO to Pinpoint Test Step C1 .

QA3 ABILITY TO ACCESS CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCs

Can Continuous Memory DTCs be accessed?
Yes No
GO to QA4 . UNABLE to access Continuous Memory DTCs. GO to QA7 .

QA4 ABILITY TO ACTIVATE KOEO SELF-TEST

Can KOEO Self-Test be activated?
Yes No
GO to QA5 . UNABLE to activate KOEO Self-Test. GO to QA6 .

QA5 ABILITY TO ACTIVATE KOER SELF-TEST

Can KOER Self-Test be activated?
Yes No
The DTC is not listed in the Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Charts. CHECK that the correct PCM is installed on the vehicle. Also CHECK for a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) or OASIS broadcast message that indicates a PCM change since the publication of this Service Manual. UNABLE to activate or complete KOER Self-Test.

Alternative fuel vehicles: GO to QA6 .

All others: GO to QA7 .

QA6 CHECK FUEL TYPE USED DURING KOER SELF-TEST

    NOTE 1: Some alternative fuel vehicles that are capable of running on either gasoline or Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) contain Electronic Engine Control strategy software that does not allow the completion of KOER self-test while running on CNG.

    NOTE 2: Some alternative fuel vehicles that are capable of running on either gasoline or Liquified Petroleum Gas (LPG) contain Electronic EC strategy software that does not allow the completion of KOER self-test while running on LPG.

Was the alternative fuel vehicle running on CNG or LPG during KOER self-test?
Yes No
RERUN KOER self-test with the alternative fuel vehicle running on gasoline. If the alternative fuel vehicle still cannot complete KOER self-test, GO to QA7 . The vehicle was not running on CNG or LPG during KOER self-test. GO to QA7 .

QA7 RETRIEVE ANY CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCs

    NOTE 1: If failures are present in the following components or systems, this can cause the Electronic EC strategy from not completing KOER self-test or cause the PCM to generate a Scan Tool communication error message: idle speed control; EGR system; fuel control system; electronic secondary air system; vehicle speed sensor circuits; mass air flow sensor circuits; transmission range sensor circuits.

    NOTE 2: For information on retrieving MIL and non-MIL DTCs, refer to Section 2A , Continuous Memory Self-Test.

  • Scan Tool connected.
  • Key on, engine off.
  • Retrieve and record all Continuous Memory DTCs (MIL and non-MIL).
  • Key off.
Were any Continuous Memory DTCs present?
Yes No
Continuous Memory DTCs are present. GO to Section 4A, Powertrain Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Charts , for Pinpoint Test direction. UNABLE to retrieve any Self-Test DTCs. GO to QA8 .

QA8 CHECK B+ AT DATA LINK CONNECTOR (DLC)

  • Key off.
  • Inspect the DLC for damage. Service as necessary.
  • Measure voltage between B+ circuit cavity at the DLC and engine block ground.
Was voltage greater than 10.5 volts?
Yes No
GO to QA9 . SERVICE open in DLC B+ circuit. RERUN Quick Test.

QA9 CHECK DLC CHASSIS GROUND RESISTANCE

  • Key off.
  • Measure resistance between chassis ground circuit cavity at the DLC and chassis ground.
Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to QA10 . SERVICE open in DLC chassis ground circuit. RERUN Quick Test.

QA10 CHECK DLC PWR GND CIRCUIT RESISTANCE

  • Key off.
  • Disconnect PCM. Inspect for damaged or pushed out pins, loose wires and corrosion. Service as necessary.
  • Install breakout box, leave PCM disconnected.
  • Disconnect Scan Tool from DLC.
  • Measure resistance between Test Pin 51 or 103 (PWR GND) at the breakout box and the PWR GND circuit cavity at the DLC.
Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to QA11 . SERVICE open in DLC PWR GND circuit. RECONNECT the PCM. REMOVE breakout box. RERUN Quick Test.

QA11 CHECK DLC BUS- CIRCUIT RESISTANCE

  • Key off.
  • Breakout box installed, PCM disconnected.
  • Measure resistance between Test Pin 15 [BUS-] at the breakout box and the BUS- circuit at the DLC.
Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to QA12 . SERVICE open in the DLC BUS- circuit. RECONNECT the PCM. REMOVE breakout box. RERUN Quick Test.

QA12 CHECK BUS- CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GROUND

  • Key off.
  • Breakout box installed, PCM disconnected.
  • Scan Tool disconnected from DLC.
  • Measure resistance between Test Pin 15 (BUS-) at the breakout box and chassis ground.
Is resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to QA13 . SERVICE short to ground in the BUS- circuit. RECONNECT the PCM. REMOVE breakout box. RERUN Quick Test.

QA13 CHECK BUS- CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO POWER

  • Key off.
  • Breakout box installed, PCM disconnected.
  • Scan Tool disconnected from DLC.
  • Key on, engine off.
  • Measure voltage between Test Pin 15 (BUS-) and Test Pins 51 or 103 (PWR GND) at the breakout box.
Was the voltage greater than 6.0 volts?
Yes No
SERVICE short to power in the BUS- circuit. RECONNECT the PCM. REMOVE the breakout box. RERUN Quick Test. GO to QA14 .

QA14 CHECK DLC BUS+ CIRCUIT RESISTANCE

  • Key off.
  • Breakout box installed, PCM disconnected.
  • Measure resistance between Test Pin 16 [BUS+] at the breakout box and BUS+ circuit at the DLC.
Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to QA15 . SERVICE open in DLC BUS+ circuit. RECONNECT the PCM. REMOVE breakout box. RERUN Quick Test.

QA15 CHECK BUS+ CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GROUND

  • Key off.
  • Scan Tool disconnected from DLC.
  • Measure resistance between Test Pin 16 (BUS+) at the breakout box and chassis ground.
Is resistance greater than 50 ohms?
Yes No
There is no short to ground in the BUS+ circuit. GO to QA16 . SERVICE short to ground in the BUS+ circuit. RECONNECT the PCM. REMOVE breakout box. RERUN Quick Test.

QA16 CHECK BUS+ CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO POWER

  • Key off.
  • Breakout box installed, PCM disconnected.
  • Scan Tool disconnected from DLC.
  • Key on, engine off.
  • Measure voltage between Test Pin 16 [BUS+] and Test Pins 51 or 103 (PWR GND) at the breakout box.
  • Key off.
Was the voltage greater than 1.0 volt?
Yes No
SERVICE short to power in the BUS+ circuit. RECONNECT the PCM. REMOVE breakout box. RERUN Quick Test. GO to QA17 .

Customer :

I dont have ground on pin 21

Customer :

and I dont have power to pins 37 and 71

Steve :

check the wiring diagram I sent you

Steve :

Do you have power at the injectors red wires

Customer :

37 and 71 goes to the PCM relay but I didnt see pin 21 on the diagram

Steve :

37 and 71 also goes to the injectors same wire see if you have power to the red wire of the injectors helps determine where you are missing power.

Steve :

pin 21 comes from the ign system fuse

Customer :

I dont have power to the injectors or pins 37 and 71

Steve :

then the relay is bad or the fuse to the relay or the wiring from the fuse box where the relay is

Steve :

fuse 24 in the fuse box under the hood ok 30 amp fuse?

Steve :

You swaped out the relay?

Customer :

let me make sure, yes the relay is new

Steve :

and fuse #30 under the dash fuse box ok check for power on that fuse with the key in the on position may have a bad ign switch

Steve :

use a test light check both sides of fuse 30 under the dash

Steve :

for power

Steve :

In fact check for power on all fuses both sides with a test light fuse 24 in the fuse box under the hood fuse 30 in the fuse box under the dash and so on. with the key on

Steve :

pin 21 is power not ground

Steve :

I have also seen water get on the fuse box from a leaking windshield and cause all kinds of problems in the fuse box under the dash

Steve :

very impotant to check for power on both sides light should be bright and not dim

Customer :

all of my guses were goodhowever I dont have any power to me eec relay

Steve :

how are the fuses I mentioned with the test light ?

Customer :

the light was bright

Steve :

what number are you missing power on the relay

Steve :

30 oe 86 on the relay?

Customer :

I didnt have power on any of the legs on the relay

Customer :

no power to the relay at all

Steve :

to refresh you used a test light and the fuses I had you check are good both sides for power with a test light and they are bright?

Customer :

correct

Steve :

then the re is a problem in the fuse box

Steve :

where the relay is check the wires go to 30 and 86 of the relay

Customer :

okay, is there a quick fix or does it need to be replaced?

Steve :

turn the fuse box upside down and pull the plastic off the bottom and check the wires

Customer :

okay, brb

Steve :

make sure the connectors are tight and the wiring is good

Steve :

I have spent a lot of time with you

Steve :

please do not forget to hit the green accept button so I can get credit thanks.

Steve :

please hit the green accept button so I may get credit thanks

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Steve
Steve
Ford tech Specializing in electronics
5328 Satisfied Customers
25 years working for Ford dealer. Ford Master tech.