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AlvinC
AlvinC, Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 1241
Experience:  With Ford 20+years as Dealership Technician Ford Senior Master Technician Gas and Diesel
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Ford F250 SuperDuty Pickup 4x2: I have a 1997 Ford F250 with

Customer Question

I have a 1997 Ford F250 with the 7.3L powersroke diesel in it Engine cranks but will not start the glow plug light is not comming on What could be the problem here ? Also replaced the fuel filter does the air need to be bled out before cranking over engine ?
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

Hello, I'm Chris.
I will do my best to answer your question fast and accurate using the info you have provided. Thanks for visiting Just Answer.

 

Whats the outside air temp where your at?

Have you used a scan tool to check ICP pressure?

Have you checked the fuel pressure?

 

If all of this started after replacing the fuel filter then yes you need to bleed the fuel lines at the head on the lines from the filter housing.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Air temp is about 65 degrees I have a scan tool but didn"t have it at the time I was working on the truck What should the fuel pressure be & What is the procedure to bleed the air from the fuel filter ? I replaced the filter after the no start problem
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

OK if the crank no start occurred prior then there is no need to bleed anything since you had a fault prior to this repair. You need to see at least 41 PSI on the fuel.

 

You need to verify you have at least 500 PSi at the injector control pressure sensor and verify the engine is getting a cam signal while cranking the engine.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I want to know the fuel filter bleeding procedure Is there an electric pump or hand primer or something ? Does the fault code need to be cleared first ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

Clearing fault codes will not do anything for you, since its a code which means there is a issue which also means there is a repair that needs to be made.

 

To bleed the fuel system you crack the fuel lines to the heads and crank the engine for about 10 seconds to get the mechanical pump to push fuel out the lines, see item 16 in this Ford image download below.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?29n98g89ij7h9k4

 

.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Bled air from fuel system it seems to be working correctly . There is no light in dash that says to wait before starting . All fuses checked good in engine compartment fuse box . Is there a timer relay or something that controls this & does it allow fuel to be released from injectors ? What test can be done ? I need to get this truck running again ASAP Your help would be greatly appriated
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

Are you sure this fuse is good.

graphic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes checked with ohms meter pulled fuse out it looked good also swap with # XXXXX there was no change
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

When you hook up a scan tool, what codes are stored in the PCM and IDM?

Do you know what the ICP pressure is?

 

 

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
When I hooked up the scan tool there was a communication error I read in the owners manuel that the engine needs to be started & run for a few minutes before scan tool can be connected
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Did you get that ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
No an engine does not have to running to hookup a scan tool and read codes, the key just has to be on. Check fuses 16 and 17 under the dash and verify they have power with the key on.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Checked fuses 16 & 17 with key turned on. Meter read less than .50 vdc at fuse #16. Fuse # XXXXX was reading 12vdc What next ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

Is your scan tool still not able to communicate?

Have you verified there is power and ground at the data link connector with the key on?

Have you checked the glow plug relay to see if the PCM is commanding it on when the key is turned to run, and this is just not a issue with the glow plug light bulb which will not prevent the engine from running. If there is no power to the relay then we are going to look into the PCM not having power.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Scan tool still will not communicate My scan tool powers up as soon as I plug it in to the data link connector Is there 2 glow plug relays ? If there is I'm getting 12vdc at relay # XXXXX but not relay # XXXXX

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

One relay is for the intake heater and one is for the glow plugs. See the wire diagram for the glow plug relay so you can verify your checking the correct one.

graphic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
The diagram is hard to see & understand . In the engine compartment looking down at the fuse box there are to relays to the right seperate from the fuse box The relay that is showing power is the one closest to the drivers side fender
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

You need to be looking down on the top center of the engine.

The starter relay is on the fender.

To zoom in on the image, just open it and hold down control and use your mouse roller wheel to zoom in.

You just need to match the wire colors to make sure your actually checking the glow plug relay.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Zoomed in the image is very low res I still can't make heads or tails of what i'm looking at Is the glow plug relay located in the engine compartment fuse box or not ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

Lets try again.

graphicgraphicgraphicgraphic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Thanks the images were very helpful I checked out the glow plug relay & found that the main positive post was broken I removed & replaced the glow plug I than turned the ignition switch to the on position to see if the wait light would come on. It still would not come on. Tryed to start still would not start I checked for power at glow plug relay with key turned on had 12 vdc to red terminal S purple wire What do I do now this is getting to very frustrating its time to get this figured out
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
If all of these tests have been done correct then this comes down to the PCM at fault or the PCM power and ground signals are not all good.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Does the pcm control the wait to start light in the dash ? Also is there a way to test the pcm to verify that it is in fact bad ? Also noticed there was clicking sound it sounds like a relay or a solinoid when barly sitting on the drivers seat with no key in the ignition switch what could this be ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
Yes the PCM controls the ground side to the glow plug relay and the wait to start. You cant communicate with the PCM which is one sign. You can check the wires to the PCM to verify all the powers and grounds are good, the clicking noise, does it seem to be coming from the lower door hinge area on the drivers side, if so that may be the IDM located on the firewall on the engine side behind the drivers side wheel.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I have a friend that has a 1996 E 350 that has a blown engine will the PCM work in the F250 to verify the pcm is bad ? Also on the clicking noise I was hearing I beleive it was comming from drivers side door hinge area What is the IDM ? Is it normal to click without the ignition on ? Also where is the pcm located ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

The IDM is the injector driver module. It should not click, so that means there is possibly an issue with it now that we know where the noise is coming from .

 

The PCM may work if the E series is a diesel, everything most likely will not function correct but it should work for just a test.

 

See the image below.

graphic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
So where is the PCM located ? I see the arror in the drawing pointing to a big connector on the fire wall. I see the IDM located on the inner drivers side fender Also what is the purpose for the switch in the driver side seat that is controling the clicking noise
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

The bog connector is screwed into the PCM which sticks through the firewall.

 

Are you referring to a power seat switch?

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Is it located behind the parking brake pedal assemby ? The truck does not have power seats. When I berly touch / sit on the seat there is a clicking sound . What is this and where is it comming from ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

Yes the PCM will be in behind the parking brake but accessed first from the engine side of the firewall.

 

I have no clue why your seat buzzes, are you sure there is not something aftermarket there. I do not know of anything connected to a non powered drivers seat to cause a buzzing noise.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I didn't say anything about a buzzing noise it's a pretty destict click that sounds like a relay or a solenoid comming from under the truck on the front drivers side area .
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
Are you for sure its actually coming from inside the cab as well as from under the seat and not from another area?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes there seems to be a switch in the seat that is making a clicking noise under the truck drivers side frame rail or front fender area
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
On the frame rail there will be a fuel pump and near the front fender that could be the fuse box or PCM or IDM. I am not there to hear it, so I cant pinpoint it any better.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Is this normal is what I'm wanting to know ? & if so may it have anything to do with the engine not starting ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
Clicking noises are not normal, there just be no abnormal noises like this. When you turn the key to run, the only thing you should hear is a slight hum from the fuel pump.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Would this have anything to do with the engine not starting yes or no ? There is no hum when I turn the key to the on position. This is controlled by the PCM right ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
The PCM does send a signal to control the power for the pump, if the pump is not working then you need to verify there is no fuel pressure. Yes no fuel pressure would not allow the vehicle to start, so can a faulty PCM or IDM.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
What do I need to do to get this PCM out ? Have you ever replaced one of these units ? Also is there some place I can take it to have it tested to see if it is bad ? I don't want to want to spend for 150 for a PCM or over 600 for a IDM unless I'm am completely sure this is what the problem is
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Did you get that ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

You can have both tested at your local dealership, they need the vehicle with the modules still installed.

 

Yes I have replaced probably a 1,000 PCMs

 

graphicgraphic

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
So this is a common problem in these trucks than? What is the relay up in the dash near the ignition switch for ? It has three wires going to it they are blue with green stripe, grey with red stripe and brown with white stripe ?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Are you there ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
I will need to see a picture of the relay to find out which it is. I cant locate it just by wire colors or the location alone.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
It looks like a regular relay accept it has a round three prong weather pack type connector The plug is red on the end when you unplug it from the relay

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
Like i mentioned earlier I can find out what it is if I had a picture. I do not have access to this model vehicle to its age to go out and look and there is about a 400 page wire diagram book to look through just to find this relay.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I have the images on my computer I'm not sure how to attach to send to you

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
On JA there should be a tool bar above where you type. Hit the paper clip icon then you can select the images out of your computer stored under my pictures.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
graphic
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
Can you take a picture of its location. All I can see in the picture is a white light with something black in the middle.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Is there such thing as a sensor relay ? I looked at a PCM reference chart . The wire colors going to the relay under the dash indicated it was from reference output voltage,injection control pressure sensor & baro sensor
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
I have never heard of a sensor relay. If you can get me a exact location it was mounted I am sure I can then find it.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
To the right of the steering column about knee level about eight inches from ignition switch
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
Based on the description of the location I cant find a circuit nor picture of that area to see which relay it is, do you want me to opt out and let another expert assist you from here on out.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Took relay to autozone they were able to cross reference the part it came up as the barometric pressure sensor relay If this was bad would it create a no start sitiuation ? Any idea how to test if it is good or bad ? The relay cost $70 dollars
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Did you get that ?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.

graphic

Anyways, I still do not see a relay for the BARO sensor. Are you sure its even a relay, and you not actually holding the BARO sensor Download the Ford diagrams HERE and look at page 5.

graphic

No a faulty BARO sensor should not be able to prevent engine startup.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I replaced the PCM finally . Engine wait to start light came on & then went out . I tryed to the start engine it started immediatly . I drove the truck around for about an hour all seemed to work well . I gave the truck back to my friend he drove it to and from work without any problems for almost 3 weeks. I got a text message from him early the other morning that it was not starting again & the wait to start light was not comming on . I later got a call from him about 8 hours later that he tryed to start it again . He said it started right up . He than drove it again for almost a week when it happened again this time he is unable to get it started & the wait to start light will not come on . What else could be the problem here ? Your experience & expertese would be appriated
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 3 years ago.
I am out of ideas from this point, would you like me to opt out and let other experts try to help?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes I think that would be best :(sorry I need answers
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
Would like to turn this problem over to Alvin C. if possible
Expert:  AlvinC replied 3 years ago.
Hi this is Al, Ok let's start from scratch. Please check for battery voltage to both sides of fuse #22, fuse #9 and fuse #8 in the fuse box under the hood with key on. Do all of these fuses have power? Thanks, Al
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Just got a call that it starts & runs again I didn't have the time to go check it out .The owner says everything works as it should & there is no check engine light. My question is would the air quality have anything to do with it not starting ? When it was cold wet & rainy it would not start on three different occassions When it is sunny warm & dry like it is today it starts right up with no issues . Have you ever heard of this happening ? Could it be a bad water in fuel sensor ?
Expert:  AlvinC replied 3 years ago.

Now the mention of it being a cold and rainy can create a issue. Have seen windshield leaks causing water in the fuse box and causing all kinds of problems. Your initial question leads to the PCM not turning on. Also for your information and as a courtesy I would like to let you know this is a pay site and the experts on this site do not get credit if you do not accept their answers. I see you have 9 questions and only 2 accepted answers. All the experts see this and it will become difficult to get anyone to help you if this trend continues as no one is going to put their time into what would appear to be wasted. Pull your fuse box out and check for corrosion, if you find any replace thee box, Al

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
When I replaced the PCM about 4 weeks ago I did not see any signs of water getting into kick panel I also checked for corrosion at fuse box terminals I did not see anything What else could it be ?
Expert:  AlvinC replied 3 years ago.
This is my last reply and I opt out. Chris put in alot of time with you as well as myself, you opt him out. Now i am putting time in as well as another question on a van with you and you do not accept any questions so we can get credit, so I have to move on to others that will not waste my time as well as other experts. At this point you will have to wait until the problem reoccurs so it can be traced. If it's not broke you can't fix it. This appears to be an intermittent concern, so it has to be occurring to find it, Al
AlvinC, Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 1241
Experience: With Ford 20+years as Dealership Technician Ford Senior Master Technician Gas and Diesel
AlvinC and 13 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Sorry I felt that I was getting no where with Chris So wanted to work with someone alittle more experience. Chris would of been rewarded greatly if I felt we were getting somewhere .
Expert:  AlvinC replied 3 years ago.
I am also sorry for being a hard ass here, but a lot of people have learned how to scam the system here, they will put a high dollar value on a question thinking they will get a quicker response then run thru the loop then relist or opt out saying incomplete answer or something like. This is why mentioned these things to you, you have a lot of good questions, but if experts see that accept rate and high dollar value on questions they will get leary and possibly leave ya hanging. Check one last thing on this truck before we have to hang it up until it acts up again, Pull the shroud from around the steering column and follow the wiring from the OD cancel switch look for any chaffing, it does not take much, If you find any insulate it. This will cause crazy stuff to happen. It is on the same power circuit as the PCM relay and the APP sensor. I hope this helps, Al
AlvinC, Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 1241
Experience: With Ford 20+years as Dealership Technician Ford Senior Master Technician Gas and Diesel
AlvinC and 13 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Thanks I will check this out
Expert:  AlvinC replied 3 years ago.
Let me know what you find, Al

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AlvinC
AlvinC
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With Ford 20+years as Dealership Technician Ford Senior Master Technician Gas and Diesel