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AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 21895
Experience:  ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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2002 ford taurus engine cranks but will not start.

Customer Question

2002 ford taurus engine cranks but will not start. have timeing light hooked up to see if spark and it appears no spark on any cyl
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Hello!

Does the check engine light come on with the key on?

Does it go off while cranking the engine over?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
comes on with the key and goes off while cranking
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Does the ignition coil have power while cranking the engine over?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes my test light stays on while I am cranking
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
IS this ignition coil getting grounded by the computer to tell it to fire produce spark?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
not sure how to check this or what exactly you are aski
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
First thing to do is check to see if the coil has power with the key in the on position. You can use a test light or a voltmeter.

Next step would be to see if its getting a ground signal trigger. This is done with a test light. But only you would hook it up backwards. Hook the alligator clip of the test light and hook it to battery positive, and take the tip of the test light and touch it the signal wire of the coil. The test light should blink when cranking over the engine if its getting a signal. If you use a conventional test light, it will flicker very very dim (so look closely) if the coil is getting a signal to fire the spark.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
light does not apear to flicker
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Then your computer is bad and will need to be replaced.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
which computer are you talking about? The pcm or the ecm
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
You only have one. It is likely to be the PCM
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Okay I swapped the pcm and it started briefly for about a minute then quit. Now it does not start and has odbc errors p0351 p0352 p0353 and does not start.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
And does the check engine light go off while cranking? Does the engine have spark and fuel pressure?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
no the check engine light is staying on. There is fuel pressure on the fuel rail.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Ok. if the check engine light stays on when cranking, then you either have a bad cam or crank sensor issue or a valve timing issue.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
The valve timing issue makes no sense based on the other issues. I will get the crank sensor and put it on in a minute.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
These codes for the ignition coils..

I would disconenct the ignition coils and see if the check engine light goes off while cranking the engine over.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I pulled all 6 plug wires from the coil and the check engine light stays on
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
k.. do you have 5 volts going to the tps with the key on?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
TPS? what is that
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Throttle position sensor
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
got 12 volts more or less
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
You should only have 5 volts going to the tps sensor.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
well the lead had 12 volts
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
on what color wire?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
there are 2 leads red and white with black stripe. The red one had around 12
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
IT should be the brown/white wire.. I think you are on the wrong sensor..
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
yes the brown and white wite has 5 volts
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Ok.. good!

Then we just have a bad input to the computer causing this problem or just another bad computer.

You need to check both the cam and crank sensor signal to verify that they are good and just be sure the engine has good compression. Dont forget about the wiring from the sensors back to the computer.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
when I had the pcm repaired they told me that it was the coil drivers in the pcm. After I replaced and put the pcm in this afternoon it started ran for like 30 seconds then quit. second time it started ran for about 1 minute then died. had not tried to start sense just turns over. the coil pack has 12 volts to it and like we tested before the test light does not flash. After it died I read the codes from the scanner 351 352 353 coil malfunction. should I replace the coil or you think there is some other sensor that can cause the pcm not to tell the coil to fire
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
YES! I think the coils are burning up the computer!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
okay replaced the coil pack and crank shaft sensor. If I put a plug in upside down on the coil pack and ground it I get a spark kinda of weak but a spark. I may not have the ground on the spark plug great.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
So you got some sort of spark?

Did you try starting the engine with the new coil pack?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
yes got some spark. tried to start not starting. currently charging up the battery to insure fully charged.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Ok.. when the battery is full charged, then see if the check engine light goes off while cranking. If so and the engine does not start, see if the engine runs on starting fluid.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
okay battery is fully charged it cranks and cranks no start. I tried spraying starter fluid in still no start. I have the air filter box open to spray starter fluid in
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Does the check engine light go off while cranking the engine over?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
slight update. We sprayed a lot of starter fluid (got a backfire and blue flame) towards air filter. I checked the fuel line from the out on the fuel filter and with the key on there gas comes out from the fuel filter. I had did this before we tried the starter fluid. Yes the check engine light goes out while cranking
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Well, either you just have a misfire or the valve timing is off.

I would just verify the engine compression and then install new plugs and see if the engine will start and run with starting fluid. I would disconnect the injector connectors or remove the fuel pump fuse when doing this. The engine should start and run with starting fluid. If it does not, then the ignition or valve timing is off. I guarantee it!!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Could this be a cam shaft position sensor.

Replaced plugs checked compression its good. I am trying to figure out what would affect the timing

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
YES.. it could!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Okay I can understand the replacement part is there anything special I should know other than make sure it goes back in correctly and exactly like the one coming out.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
That is correct. Be sure you put it in the same way it came out. Just be sure to check it first before you replace it.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Do you think the sensor or the whole syncronizer
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Once you remove the sensor from the syncronizer, you should be able to see inside. IF there is any damage, then it wil need to be replaced. It not, you will be ok if you do not replace it.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
The crankshafter sensor was already replaced so this should be about the last part related to timing issues I think. Got fuel, Spark noid light shows injectors firing
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Unless the timing chain had jumped..
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

okay I think I am going down the wrong path and missed something

 

Replaced the cam shaft position sensor. Still no start

 

Retested the plugs with a tester and we ar getting spark.

 

Pulled plugs rerun compression test around 175 each cylnder.

 

The plugs were dry as a bone even after all of the cranking I have done. Seems like they should have been wet. I know I have around 50PSI on the fuel rail

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Hello!

Thanks for the reply!

Have you tested injector pulse?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
yes it flashs with a noid tester
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
And the engine still will not run on starting fluid?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
just spray it in past the maf sensor right?
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Well, you have to spray it into the engine before the mass air flow sensor. Do not disconnect the air snorkel hose after the mass air flow sensor otherwise the engine will not run.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
well I have been spraying it at the maf with the filter box open and the air filter out
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
As long as the mass air flow sensor is still conencted to the intake air snorkle, you are doing it right.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Okay that was not cool. Sprayed in backfired
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
It sounds like your ignition or valve timing is off.

Check engine light still goes off when cranking the engine over?

Are the ignition coils still disconnected?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
check engine light goes off the ignition coils are connected
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Ok.. since the check engine light goes off while cranking, the engine recognize engine rpm. This means that at least the crank sensor is good. But the ignition timing could be off because of a bad computer or maybe the valve timing is off. YES.. you can still have good compression and the valve timing can still be off. I have seen it.. I know you are going to ask.. so I just got to get that out of the way..

So.. we are at a cross road here. We can either move forward, bight the bullet take thing thing be the horns and get it handled, or just quit while we are ahead. TO continue, we would need to get a lab scope on both the cam and crank sensor and check to see if they are "in sync" with each other. If not, that is out problem. If they are dead on, then chances are it is going to be the computer.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
seems to be not reading what we have went over and keeps going back to the same things over and over. I have replaced various parts now and have come back to the same issue.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
Sorry for the delay!

Have you replaced the timing chain? If not, then maybe this should be something to consider.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thought about it but it has started and ran since this episode of not starting begain.

 

After having the ecm reprogrammed it started and ran for about 1 minute and sounded fine. Has not ran again since

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 3 years ago.
If i were you, I would disconnect all of the injectors or pull the fuel pump fuse and see if the engine start and runs smooth on starting fluid. This is a very important test. IF not, then either the ignition or valve timing is off.

From there we need to decide which way to go.

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