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Steve
Steve, Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 6833
Experience:  25 years working for Ford dealer. Ford Master tech.
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2000 ford expedition. crank but wont start. is it Crank position

Customer Question

2000 ford expedition. crank but wont start. is it Crank position sensor or fuel pump or something else. I will try all all fuses and relays but what next. Tried fuel cutoff switch. 0 pressure at fuel rail. No humming noise at fuel pump.
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
Thanks for visiting Just Answer,
To check the crank sensor: Watch the check engine light while cranking. Does the engine light remain illuminated while cranking? If so, you might have a crank sensor. If the engine light turns OFF while cranking, the pcm is recieving crank signal and the senosr is OK.
You can also check for a/c voltage from the crank sensor while cranking.

Now, are you getting power through the fuel pump system?
Do you have power to the inertia switch? Do you have power out?
If so, go to the fuel pump and check for power at the fuel pump connector. Check the pink/ black wire for power. If there is power to the fuel pump and the pump is not turning on, check the ground.g104 and g101 if grounds are OK replace the fuel pump.
If you need more info on getting to the pump Click heregraphicgraphicgraphic
Tim West, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 4638
Experience: ASE Certified Service manager of Firestone
Tim West and 3 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
info about getting to the pump is not downloading
Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
If it still will not work, here is what it says.


SPECIAL SERVICE TOOL(S)

REMOVAL

WARNING:
  • WHEN DRAINING FUEL FROM THE FUEL TANK, KEEP SPARKS, SMOKING MATERIALS, AND OPEN FLAMES AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE.
  • THE FUEL SYSTEM CONTAINS PRESSURIZED FUEL AFTER THE VEHICLE IS SHUT DOWN AND WILL MAINTAIN THE PRESSURE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME .
  1. Relieve the fuel pressure;
  2. Disconnect the battery ground cable; refer to Battery.
  3. Raise and support the vehicle; refer to Maintenance/Service and Repair.



  1. Disconnect the fuel tank filler pipe hose from the fuel tank.
  2. Drain the fuel from the fuel tank.



  1. Disconnect the fuel tank vent tube from fuel tank filler pipe.



  1. Disconnect the fuel pump electrical connector.



  1. if equipped, remove fuel tank skid plate.
1 Remove the five fuel tank skid plate bolts.
2 Lower the fuel tank skid plate.



  1. Position a suitable jack under the fuel tank.



  1. Remove the front fuel tank support strap.
1 Remove the two bolts.
2 Remove the front fuel tank support strap.



  1. Remove the rear fuel tank support strap.
1 Remove the three bolts.
2 Remove the rear fuel tank support strap.



  1. Partially lower the fuel tank and disconnect the two EVAP emissions hoses.



  1. Remove the two safety clips from the fuel lines.



  1. Disconnect the fuel lines from the fuel pump.
1 Install and push the (A) fuel line disconnect tool into the (B) female fitting.
2 Separate the male and female fitting.



  1. Remove the fuel tank.



  1. Remove the fuel pump.
1 Remove the fuel pump locking retaining ring.
2 Remove the fuel pump and discard the O-ring.

INSTALLATION



  1. Install the fuel pump.
1 Install a new O-ring and fuel pump.
2 Install the fuel pump locking retainer ring.



  1. With a suitable jack, position the fuel tank.



  1. Connect the fuel lines.



  1. Connect the safety clips.



  1. Connect the EVAP emissions hoses.
  2. Raise the fuel tank into position.



  1. Install the rear fuel tank support strap.



  1. Install the front fuel tank support strap.
1 Position the fuel tank support strap.
2 Install the bolts.



  1. If equipped, install the fuel tank skid plate.
1 Position the fuel tank skid plate.
2 Install the bolts.



  1. Connect the fuel pump electrical connector.



  1. Connect the fuel tank-to-filler pipe vent tube.



  1. Connect the fuel tank filler pipe hose.
  2. Lower the vehicle.
  3. Fill the fuel tank.
  4. Turn on the air suspension system.
  5. Connect the battery ground cable.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
if everything is in order except for the fuel pump not working, why wont the typical shot carb spray or starting fliud in throttle-body intake turn it over for second as it has done for me in so many other vehicles while trying to troubleshoot this problem.
Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
Still having a problem? are you getting spark?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Key is in on position I have no power thru the inertia switch in or out. G101/G104 are good ground. Do i check for spark by removing one of the ignition modules over the plug and crank next to a ground

 

Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
No power to the inertia switch? Is the fuel pump fuse ok?graphic
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes the fuel pump fuse is good in particular. But I did check every fuse in distribution panel just in case i was looking at wrong fuse. Can i remove fuel pump relay and jumper Slot 87 and 30 to see if fuel pump initialize
Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
Yep try that and let me know.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I jumpered #30 and #87 no fuel pump initialization but i am getting power thru inertia switch now. when I replace the FP relay, no power thru inertia switch with key in any position. Going to store to buy Relay. dont think thats the problem but only 11 bucks. need to rule it out. BTW can I remove an individual cylinder direct ignition coil and check for spark that way
Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
They make a COP spark tester you should use. You can google it and find them cheap.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
when I jumper 30 to 87 power is good thru inertia switch but with new relay no power thru inertia switch with key in any position, is this normal operation. Also ground point G104, is that to the engine block on top next to camshaft cover if so im pulling fuel pump but it does disturb me that no power is getting thru inertia switch
Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
Without jumping anything, while cranking are you getting power to the inertia swich?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
NO. had my son crank while i checked power thru switch..... Nothing
Expert:  Tim West replied 4 years ago.
Are you getting power to the red wire in start or run at the relay?Disconnect the PCM and check for battery voltage on the Light Blue/Orange (LB/OG) wire at PCM pin 80 with the fuel pump relay installed and the ignition switch in the Run position.
If the circuit indicates battery voltage, ground it through a jumper wire. This should result in activation of the relay and a running fuel pump.
If the fuel pump runs when the LB/OG wire is grounded, replace the PCM.
If there is no voltage on the LB/OG wire with the relay installed and the ignition switch in the Run position, verify that the LB/OG wire is not open between the fuel pump relay and the PCM connection.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Getting spark, fuel pressure is 0, fuses good, fuel pump relay new, no power thru inertia switch in or out with key in any position unless I remove FP relay and jumper #30 and #87. Even after that, fuel pump still not operating
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
One important step I/we forgot. I did not check for power to inertia switch as the key was being turned to run position. Power is only present for a second or two to initialize fuel pump and while cranking. Could have saved a lot of time and headache if you mentioned, attach test light or meter to inertia wires then turn key to run position and observe if voltage is present. But I thank you emmensly.
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.

Hello and Welcome to Justanswer,



My name is XXXXX XXXXX I am here to try and assist your with your question

 

Have you checked for power and ground at the fuel pump connecter while cranking engine?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

New fuel pump, relay getting good presure at the fuel rail while cranking

I believe my injectors arent working. pulled a few plugs and they are bone dry after all that cranking and no start. what triggers the fuel injectors. Crank sensor? Cam sensor? No check engine light was on while cranking.

Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
The check engine light goes out while cranking the sensors are ok Does the check engine light come on key on engine off. Unplug a fuel insecter you should have 12 volts key on engine off at the red wire let me know
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
On my way to check for 12v at the injector what next if I do get 12v or I don't just trying to ask before you turn in for the night
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
If you get 12v check the computer ground side for a signal test light should blink while cranking on the opposite wire to power with test light. If you do not have 12v you have power supply problem to the injector's. Reason i asked if check engine light is on key on engine off.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes light on key in on position engine off
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
Great that means you have power and ground to the power train control module. What is the voltage at the injector's with key on engine off?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
12.17
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
Great then you have power to the injectors. The next step is to take your test light put one end to power and the other end to the none powered wire of the injecter or opposite wire that the power is on The computer grounds this wire. while cranking engine the test light should blink. If it is not blinking you could have a bad computer.

Edited by Steve on 7/29/2010 at 10:21 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

the test light was blinking

 

Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.

Great the computer is working and the injector's should be firing unless they are plugged

What is your fuel pressure?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
i dont know for sure. All I know is that while my son was cranking, i pushed in schrader vavle on fuel rail and gas was just a spurting everywhere.
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
Need to get the exact pressure need to get a fuel pressure gage and you should have around 40lb while cranking engine.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
ok
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
get back to me with the results.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
40 psi while cranking
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
its reading 40 psi while cranking
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
We may be dealing with a internal engine concern or a mechanical problem with the engine. Have seen cams break not allowing valves to open. You have all the computer elements to start your vehicle. you have spark and fuel and injector pulse. The next step is to preform a compression test. let me know what you find on the compression test.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
110-120 psi with a leaky compression tester.
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
Compression is to low should be 180lbs or better i would suspect the cam is not turning or the timing chain has slipped.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Cam is turning, looked down oil filler neck as son was cranking. ok i will ckeck compression on other side tonight and recheck. my tester was a little leaky. If you hear of anything, TSB, or other owners having similar issues or whatever drop me a reply, thanks. I have 11 bucks in my paypal account, not much but I appreciate all youve done. how can I get it to you.

Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
Press the green accept button and you can also give a bonus thanks ill keep in touch.
Steve, Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 6833
Experience: 25 years working for Ford dealer. Ford Master tech.
Steve and 3 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
hey if you get a minute today, please explain to me what could cause the passenger side bank of cylinders to have110-120psi and the driver side of cylinders to show 0, yes 0.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
one more thing, is this an interference type motor
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
The cam is not moving the valve are not opening as I suspected. It is a interference motor. What you are going to find when you tear the engine apart is the cam guides and cam are worn from lack of oil. Have repaired this concern with a new head and cam. Might want to look at the main and rod bearings for wear may need a engine.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Wow. come to think of it, oil was an astonishing 3 quarts low. Btw, my 95 town car has 210k miles and runs like a top. should I replace timing chain. is the 4.6L just a smaller 5.4L? same setup?
Expert:  Steve replied 4 years ago.
No the 4.6 does not have these issues The timing chain last the life of the engine

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