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Dieseljunky2
Dieseljunky2, Ford Mechanic
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 3943
Experience:  ASE Certified, Ford Certified, Cummins Certified, & 20+ years in field experience
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1997 Ford F350 Turbo Diesel stopped running while idling

Customer Question

1997 Ford F350 Turbo Diesel stopped running while idling
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
Hello, Have you tried to remove the fuel filter cap and crank over the engine to see if the filter bowl will fill with fuel? Also, I would like for you to check the engine oil level for me. Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes removed filter cap and cranked. Some fuel in there, but doesn't come in while cranking. Should it fill while cranking and how fast? Have not checked oil level yet. Is there a sensor for the level? Haven't seen any oil light come on.
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
No there i snot a sensor for the oil level. The fuel filter bowl should fill in about 4 to 6 seconds max of cranking, longer than this, and the pump is not working correctly. Back to the oil, the injectors use engine oil to actuate the injection cycle. If the engine oil level is low enough, it will not have enough for the high pressure oil injector pump to actuate the injectors. Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Ok. Yesterday I replaced the fuel pump. (I won't tell you how much of a job that was). Truck still will not start. Any thoughts? How do I find out what is wrong now? It's fustrating. This truck has always run good. Do you think it's the high pressure pump? How much of a job is that to replace? Thanks
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
Does the fuel filter bowl now fill with fuel?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes. I would say in the 4-6 second range.
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
How much cranking have you done, since the pump ran the engine dry, it will take a bit of cranking to get it started. Also, does the tachometer in the dash come up to around 200 rpm while cranking? Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I hooked a commerical battery charger up and cranked the engine over a lot. I can get it to pop with starting fuild but will not run. Not sure about the 200 RPM on the tech but can check. I also cracked the fuel line coming out of the filter holder with a wrench and it gets fuel there with some air but not a lot. Closed back up and continued cranking but will not start. I can try more cranking, it's just that I didn't want to burn out the glow plug relay--it gets hot from trying so much.
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
I need to know if the tachometer in the dash moves up when cranking. Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Ok. Finally got to check the tach reading. It goes to around 100 RPM. The truck sat outside and it's been cold. I hooked up the commerical battery charger and another vehicle to jump the second battery. It turns over ok for several seconds then becomes weaker again.Tomorrow I can hook up the charger again for several hours. Since the truck is a standard transmission would I be able to tow it with my John Deere tractor and pop start it? I could have my dad help me tomorrow if you think it might work.
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
I am thinking that the whole problem here may be battery and or charging system related. The powerstroke will not start if the voltage goes below 11 volts at the injection control module. How old are the batteries? Does the wait to start light and check engine light come on with the key in the on position?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
The starter was replaced 6 months ago. The batteries are about two years old and are ford batteries. The truck had started good the morning it happened and every morning it's been cold----it was very cold (around 15 degrees). Is there a fuse for the injection module?
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
I am accessing the wiring diagrams for your truck. Does the wait to start and check engine lights come on?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Yes. They go out after several seconds
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
Does this truck have the factory anti-theft option? If it does, is the theft light blinking faster than normal?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
No anti theft option. This is an XL series. No electric windows or electric seats ect.
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
Check fuses 8, 9, and 22 under the hood. Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
They are all good.
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
We will need a scan tool that can monitor the high pressure oil pump to see if it is putting out the correct pressure. Do you have a scan tool?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
No I do not. Can I buy one at the auto parts store?
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
You can get one at the auto parts, but it must be capable of reading PID data. That is the fancy term for sensor data.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
The plot thickens. I borrowed a scanner from a friend. It would not power up after connecting to the data port. I went back to him thinking there was a power cord for it. He said no it should come on from the data port. He then lent me a second scanner which obviously more expense and with all the bells and whistles. I hooked up that one and it said communication error. I then checked all the fuses again for the sixth time. They are all good. Also my friend said that the check engine light should come on and go out. It does not. This leads me to now believe it may be the power train control module. Your thoughts?
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.

If the light comes on and stays on, and the scanner will not communicate, this normally indicates that it has died. I would say to double check the fuses, and BEFORE you replace the pcm. I would say to try replacing the pcm and IDM relays. It is possible, the relays are not making good connection and causing problems. Here is a diagram for the fuse box under the hood. Thanks

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I replaced the pcm and idm relays with the horn and trailer relays. They all have the same part number. That did not work. I also checked the fuses under the dash and found #16 blown-(my diagram says cigarette lighter/generic scanner tool). Tomorrow I will try to get the scan tool again (I had to return it as my friend has a full time repair business). I think this may power up the scanner and help diagnose the problem. If not I would guess the pcm is dead. One thing brothers me. The check engine light does not come on. Not sure if that lamp ever came on when all was normal-before this problem?
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
I misread the light part of your question. I thought you stated it stayed on all the time, I now see you said it does not come on. This is not a good sign for the pcm. Let me know if it has any codes, or if it is still dead. Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hooked up scanner again today. Communicated with computer and pulled only 2 codes. #0236 and 0344. My data says restricted air/exhaust supply hose tampering (this makes sense because I had stuck my hand over the intake and got the truck to idle monentarly when all this starting happening). The 0344 is cam sensor which I replaced early on in this problem. Two things now come to mind. I looked very closely at the dash board when turning on the key and noticed the check engine light monentarily on for a split second then disappears. Why are there not more codes? My gut feeling is the pcm died however, I believe it's programable therefore I may not be able to replace it easily. Also not returnable once purchased from dealer. There is a place I found in Florida who remanufactures and has a 14 day return policy. You send your old one back to them (core replacement). You have to give them the vin # XXXXX they will program the new one before sending it out. Your thoughts?
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
I have used similar services before, and they are fine since you do not have security keys. Even if you tried to find a used one, it would not work since it will have the wrong vin number in it. I think at this point, the pcm rebuild would be the way to go. Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hi

I just found something new. I was going to order the pcm and the sales rep told me that he needed the part number. I removed both the IDM and PCM from the truck. The IDM has water/mositure in it and there is a black mark on the back side (shorted circuit?). My question now is should I replace both modules?

Thanks

Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
No, if the idm is shorted out, it short out the VREF circuit. This is the circuit that both the pcm and the idm communicate over. Replace the idm. Then retest the system.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hi

I received the IDM and replaced it. The truck started, runs good, however now experiencing hard starts in the morning. The glow plug circuit appears to be working. Should I hook up scanner again and retreive codes?

Thanks

 

P.S. I also ordered a PCM but didn't use it. The place where I got it won't give me money credit back, they want to issue store credit. So I still have the remanufactured/programed PCM if you think I should replace it.

Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
Go ahead and check for the codes. If the codes come clean, then check the four posts on the glow plug relay on the passenger valve cover again for power. When the engine is cold, there should be power on one of the small terminals and both the large terminals. Thanks
Dieseljunky2, Ford Mechanic
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 3943
Experience: ASE Certified, Ford Certified, Cummins Certified, & 20+ years in field experience
Dieseljunky2 and 2 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Hooked up scanner today. Just one code P0603-I think this is from disconnecting the batteries. How long does it take to clear the code? It's been about 3 days now with power. Also plugged in truck last night--started right up this morning. I will now concentrate on the glow plug relay/solenoid circuit. I know the solenoid got hot from trying to start the truck when the IDM problem occured. Truck runs good otherwise.

P.S. My friend who owns the repair shop had an F350 powerstroke come in yesterday that stopped running---it was down 9 quarts of oil! Filled back up and it started right away!

Thank You

Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
It may take a few hundred miles for P0603 to go away. Tell your friend, He owes me one, just kidding. Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thank You for all your help. I have credited your account!!!
Expert:  Dieseljunky2 replied 4 years ago.
Thanks and keep that stroker rolling.

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