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Scott W.
Scott W., Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 2854
Experience:  28 yrs. experience as Ford ASE Master Technician. Accolades include being a 2005 Ford PTS Regional Finalist and 2006 ASE Ford National Technician.
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just installed cam phasers in a 2006 f150 5.4 3v the noise

Customer Question

just installed cam phasers in a 2006 f150 5.4 3v the noise from the cam phasers is gone runs perfect down the highway and at idol sometimes has a miss goes and comes, but when you put engine in a bind like a sharp turn or backing out of parking space engine starts knocking rpm does not drop oil pressure does not drop sometimes will cut off if dont give gas or straighten wheels but starts right back up again and might not do it again for awhile
anyone ever heard of this
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Scott W. replied 4 years ago.
Hello, I personally have not ran into this problem, did vehicle run like this before phaser installation? Tell me what all has been done and replaced if there is more than what is already listed.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
we install lots of used engines and transmissions for used carlots. dealer sent me this truck to put engine in got truck in and first cranked up and ran perfect got up to operating temp and how a deep thud sound like a diesel my father had bought a new 2005 f 150 with a 5.4 and it had to have cam phasers installed before it had 3,000 miles on it. we installed the cam phasers in it the noise that was present is no longer there did not really drive truck much before installed cam phasers engine runs perfect at idol and on the highway finished with cam phasers friday afternoon was driving it around this weekend making sure everything was ok before i took back to customer and was backing out of parking space and wheels were turned fully to right sounded like engine was knocking oil pressure is good rpm doesnt drop sometimes cuts truck off or if you straighten wheels up will go away and knocking stops and runs fine did throw a p0353 i believe unplugged cam pos senson on left head and could not recreate noise plugged back in and immediately started doing it again installed a new cam sensor and it did the same thing shop down the road said we may have got it out of time when installing cam phasers but my mechanic says everything was lined up and the cam phasers would only go on one way and if was out of time i dont believe it would run as good as it does at idol and down the road this knocking sound only occurs in sharp turns
Expert:  Scott W. replied 4 years ago.
Was this repair done with the locking wedge tool or was the front cover taken off?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
yes we used the locking wedge from rotunda mechanic said when pulled off original cam phaser the cam moved a little even though had vise grips on it but moved back the cam and lined up everything and had everything marked
Expert:  Scott W. replied 4 years ago.

Ok, you what is the code you are retrieving?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
i believe it was p0353 was a cam shaft position sensor back 2 i believe however we replaced that sensor and did the same thing then we unplugged the sensor and would not do it as soon as we plugged back in started the knocking again
Expert:  Scott W. replied 4 years ago.
P0353 is for ignition, I looked at cam sensor codes and went through some pinpoint test's with not much luck, I think you can monitor pids vct1 and vct2 and look at degree's of advance or retard and if the left bank is off by a lot compared to the other bank, you will probably be looking at a timing issue if they are pretty close to the same in degrees, I don't think it would be timing. Hope this helps Steve W
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
if there was a timing issue do you think it would run good all the time except when turning the wheel to the extreme
Expert:  Scott W. replied 4 years ago.
Variable cam timing system's are different than the old fixed timing systems, they have the ability to adjust timing and make the engine run it's best. This cam sensor code you are getting have you made sure wiring is ok?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
we did not recheck that we will overlook that in the morning this is the weirdest thing i have ever seen has all of the technicians at the local ford dealer stumped as well as us do you know of any updates that may have to be done after replacing the cam phasers
Expert:  Scott W. replied 4 years ago.
I'm not aware of any update's, we did have one or two that had camshaft problems that knocked, when we tore it apart we could'nt believe it ran. Here is the tsb I'm sure you already have this but if you don't hope this helps. Let me know what the tech finds Thanks Steve W
FORD:2005 Mustang
2004-2005 F-150
2005 Expedition, F-250, F-350
LINCOLN:2005 Navigator

This article supersedes TSB 06-4-7 to update the Service Procedure.

ISSUE:

Some vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and / or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these engines. In other cases the noise may require further investigation. Sorting out and defining the noise as reported by the customer is important to successfully diagnose and / or repair the condition.

ACTION:

Before starting diagnosis, it is critical to determine the specific engine noise the customer is concerned with. The customer should be interviewed to get their detailed perception and description of the noise, and to determine if the noise occurs at idle or above idle speed, and if the engine is cold, hot, or both. Attempt to duplicate the noise, and determine the source of the symptom. Refer to the following Service Procedure to help determine the source of the noise and if a repair is needed.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

NOTE:READ THIS SECTION IN ITS ENTIRETY BEFORE BEGINNING.

NOTE:THE 4.6L 3V AND 5.4L 3V ENGINES ARE INSTALLED IN SEVERAL VEHICLE PLATFORMS, WHICH MAY INFLUENCE THE INTENSITY OF NOISE DUE TO VEHICLE DIFFERENCES IN SOUND TRANSMISSION PATHS, HOOD AND BODY INSULATION PACKAGES, AND ROOT CAUSE OF THE COMPONENT(S) CAUSING THE NOISE.

PRE-CHECKS

  1. Make sure you have a detailed description of the noise the customer is concerned with, including whether the noise is occurring at idle or above idle speed (does it disappear above 1200 RPM), and if the engine is cold, hot, or both when the noise is occurring. These engines generate a lot of "normal" noises, so it is critical to confirm the noise the customer is concerned with. Determine what environment the customer is in when the noise is most noticeable to them (inside passenger compartment, next to building with / without the driver and / or passenger window open, or beside the wheel well). Validate by using your own perception.
  2. Compare the noise generated with a new vehicle, if available, with an ENGINE build date of 3/30/2005 or later on Mustang and 4/18/2005 or later on F-150 to F-350, Expedition and Navigator vehicles.
  3. Diagnose noise when engine is at normal operating temperature (Oil at 160° F (71° C) or above). Verify oil temperature by using a diagnostic scan tool and monitoring the engine oil temperature (EOT) PID. Startup rattle may only occur with cold oil.
  4. Check the type of oil filter installed on the vehicle. A dirty or clogged filter may cause a pressure drop. Look for aftermarket brands not recognized in the market or a production filter that has gone beyond the standard Ford recommended change interval.
  5. Check for signs of oil brand used and viscosity (interview customer if needed). Motorcraft® SAE 5W-20 Premium Synthetic Blend Motor Oil or equivalent is recommended.

    Once the above pre-checks are complete, check for sound level from the following components, in the order listed. Compare the sound from these components to the noise the customer is concerned with, to determine the source of the noise.

INJECTION / FUEL SYSTEM

Injector noise (ticking) is considered normal. Noise increases with RPM hot or cold and is recognized at the top of the engine.

VALVE TRAIN

Lash adjusters can make a ticking / tapping noise noticeable at any engine RPM / temperature and is audible through the wheel well or an open hood. However, with the hood down, lash adjuster noise can be heard as a light tapping noise through the wheel well and is considered normal.

Tracing this noise must be isolated to a cylinder bank. If one bank is louder than the other bank, focus the diagnostic to the loud bank. If both banks seem loud with the hood down, compare wheel well sound level to another comparable vehicle.

Use a stethoscope on the top of the cam cover bolt heads to confirm which bank is affected. Move the probe from front to rear if necessary.

If isolated, only replace the intake and exhaust lifters on the affected cylinder bank.

VARIABLE CAM TIMING

The 4.6L 3V and 5.4L 3V variable cam timing (VCT) feature may emit a light knock in normal operation and is audible only at idle speed, with a hot engine (gear selector in park / neutral). However, it may be masked by or mistaken for other noises generated from either injector firing or a malfunctioning valve train as described above. The noise does not affect performance or durability of the part.

VCT phasers may knock at hot idle. It may be heard inside the passenger compartment, or the wheel well area. Some light noise is normal. The engine may require a cold soak overnight for a full diagnosis to effectively be made at hot idle, particularly when a VCT phaser is suspected. The knock is not prevalent at cold temperature.

To test for VCT noise:

  1. Place the transmission in park or neutral
  2. Bring engine oil temperature to 160° F (71° C) or above as indicated by the scan tool "EOT" PID.
  3. Allow engine to idle, and determine if noise is noticeable.
  4. Set engine speed to over 1200 RPM (if noise is a VCT knock, the noise should disappear).
  5. Return engine speed to idle (verify knock returns).

    If the noise intensity is more than a lightly audible knock at hot idle under 1200 RPM at engine operating temperature, replace the cam phaser using the "In-Vehicle Repair" Camshaft Phaser and Sprocket procedure found in the Workshop Manual, Section 303-01

START UP RATTLE

Some 2004 F-150 and 2005 F-150, Expedition, Navigator, F-Super Duty, and Mustang vehicles may have a rattle on startup that lasts 1 to 3 seconds. If initial pre-checks have been completed and the noise sounds like it is coming from the front of the engine, replace the VCT Phaser Kit. If the engine continues to make the rattle noise after the initial startup do not exchange VCT.

PART NUMBERPART NAME
5L1Z-6500-AALash Adjuster (2005 Vehicles)
3L3Z-6500-BALash Adjuster (2004 Vehicles)
3R2Z-6A257-DAVCT Phaser Kit

WARRANTY STATUS:

Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage

OPERATIONDESCRIPTIONTIME
061908A2005 Expedition / Navigator 5.4L 3V: Replace Right Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 4.5 Hrs.
061908A2005 Mustang 4.6L 3V: Replace Right Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)2.2 Hrs.
061908A2005 Super Duty 5.4L 3V: Replace Right Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)3.1 Hrs.
061908A2004-2005 F-150 5.4L 3V: Replace Right Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 3.7 Hrs.
061908B2004-2005 F-150 5.4L 3V: Replace Left Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft ) Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A2.5 Hrs.
061908B2005 Super Duty 5.4L 3V: Replace Left Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)2.6 Hrs.
061908B2005 Mustang 4.6L 3V: Replace Left Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser Hrs. (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)2.3 Hrs.
061908B2005 Expedition / Navigator 5.4L 3V: Replace Left Bank Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 2.7 Hrs.
061908C2005 Expedition / Navigator 5.4L 3V: Replace Both Banks Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)6.7 Hrs.
061908C2005 Mustang 4.6L 3V: Replace Both Banks Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A) 4.2 Hrs.
061908C2005 Super Duty 5.4L 3V: Replace Both Banks Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)5.2 Hrs.
061908C2004-2005 F-150 5.4L 3V: Replace Both Banks Lash Adjusters And / Or Camshaft Sprocket / Phaser (6500A, 6256A, 6250A, 6020A, 6268B, 6266A, 6584A, 9424A)5.5 Hrs.
MT061908Claim Additional Labor Required As Actual TimeActual Time

DEALER CODING

BASIC PART NO.CONDITION CODE
6500 (Lash Adjuster Replacement)42
6A257 (VCT Replacement)42

NOTE: The information in Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper vehicle service. The procedures should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers". Do not assume that a condition described affects your car or truck. Contact a Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury dealership to determine whether the Bulletin applies to your vehicle. Warranty Policy and Extended Service Plan documentation determine Warranty and/or Extended Service Plan coverage unless stated otherwise in the TSB article. The information in this Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) was current at the time of printing. Ford Motor Company reserves the right to supercede this information with updates. The most recent information is available through Ford Motor Company's on-line technical resources.

Copyright © 2006 Ford Motor Company

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