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AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 21878
Experience:  ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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1987 ford f150: line 6 wont start..fuel pump..Moter..cranks

Customer Question

My 1987 ford f150 i-line 6 won't start. No spark or fuel pump power. Moter cranks.
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Hello!

 

We will have to pinpoint what the engine is missing.


Spark


Fuel


Compression

 

All three of these are tested when the engine is being cranked over. There are two way of checking for fuel. Fuel pressure and fuel trigger. Both are very important and must be present for the car to start. Fuel pressure is self explanatory. You just hook up the gage and see what the reading is. Fuel trigger is check with a noid light. The injector gets unplugged and the noid light gets plugged in to the injector clip. With the engine cranking over, this light must blink. This is the signal to the injectors from the computer. You can have all the fuel pressure in the world, but it wont matter if the injector is not pulsing gas into the cylinder like it should! Compression tester, spark tester, fuel pressure gage and noid light are all accessible at your local auto store. All three tests play a very important part in diagnosing a no start condition. Be extremely careful when doing these tests.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
No power to the fuel pump. No spark at spark plugs. Have power from coil to ignition module.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Does the check engine light come on with the key in the on position?

 

Does it go off while cranking?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
No check engine light comes on at any time. Correction-Light comes on when not cranking and does go out when cranking.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
So the check engine light comes on with the key in the on position, and goes of while cranking..correct?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Yes that is correct
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok.. good!

 

Lets go to the fuel pump relay and check for power with the key on. There should be two power wires that go into this relay with the key on.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Can you tell me where this relay is located? I can't find it.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Just for your info... Here is a TSB for a no start condition.

 

Engine - No Start Condition

Article No.
92-26-8

December 16, 1992

^ NO START - 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L, 7.5L - FROM CORRODED OR LOOSE WIRE SPLICE IN 12A581 WIRING ASSEMBLY

^ WIRING - 12A581 WIRING ASSEMBLY - CORRODED OR LOOSE WIRE SPLICE RESULTING IN POSSIBLE NO START

LIGHT TRUCK:
1987-90 BRONCO, F-150-350 SERIES

ISSUE:
A no start condition may be caused by loose or corroded three-way wire splice in the # XXXXX circuit of the 12A581 wiring assembly.

ACTION:
Repair the corroded or loose wire splice by using the following service procedure.

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable from the battery.





2. Locate the fuel pump relay, Figure 1.

3. Trace the # XXXXX circuit wire (yellow) from the fuel pump relay into the 12A581 wire harness.

4. Carefully cut away enough harness wrap to expose the splice (about 4 or 5 inches).

5. Examine the splice. If loose or corroded, repair as follows:

a. Cut out the bad section.

b. Reconnect the wires together.

c. Solder the wires with resin core electrical solder.


6. Use heat shrink tubing (WT5625) to insulate the splice. Tape (EOAZ-19628-A) and put back into the harness.

7. Reconnect the negative battery cable.

8. Test the vehicle for proper operation.

 

graphic

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
The Fuel Pump Relay is located under the plastic shield at the air cleaner support bracket.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
There is no power to this relay as far as I can tell. Sorry, but I got dis-connected and had to reboot.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Did you use a test light or a voltmeter? What color wires did you check?

 

Was the key on?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I used a test light and checked the white/w-red stripe and a red wire. Is that correct?
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

NO... there is a yellow wire and a red wire that both should have power on them at this relay with the key on. Here is a wiring diagram of this circuit.

 

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
The yellow wire has power but the red has none.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Do you have the key on?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Yes -
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Ok.. Do me a favor. go to the fuel injectors and see if we have power on the red wire to any of the fuel injectors.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
No - There is no power on ered wire to fuel inj.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Even with the key on?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
With the key on or off - ( I found some corrosion and a loose wire - I need to repair those .)
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Ok... repair the loose wire and corrosion and test the red wire at the fuel injectors with the key on and let me know if you have power there.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I have done repairs and still have no power at red wire with key on.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Ok.. Give me a second and I am going to do some digging for you.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok... I want you to go to the EEC power relay (main relay) and check for two powers going into this relay with the key on.

 

This relay is is located at the air Cleaner Support Bracket, Under Plastic Shield. This relay is also in the diagram that I posted with the fuel pump relay. Look at the diagram to match up the wire colors.

AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 21878
Experience: ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
AMEDEE and 6 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I am working on your last recommendation. I have an appt. I must go to.. I will accept now and will finish up what I can. Thank's for your assistance and you have gotten me a lot further than I was. Thank's
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

THanks for the accept!

 

I will stick with you until this thing is fixed!

 

Let me know what you find!

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
It's me again. I have to leave again for a doctor's appt. When I get back I'll get with you again on your recommendation's and see how that goes. Once again thank's.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok... Sure not a problem.

 

Talk to you soon!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
This is likaford and I'm back again - I have been reveiwing what we have done so far and a couple of things bother me. For one thing, there does not seem to be sheild's where you said they would be . Either I'm missing them or they were taken off sometime. So, I don't know if I'm testing the right wires or not Also, I have found a nr. of relays but don't know if I really checked the fuel pump relay as all is there are a nr. of loose wires with relays on them. If you have any ideas that may help me , please let me know. If you think I,m wasting your time, I understand and will try to pin some of thease thing's down further.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok...

 

Here is another picture of the fuel pump relay. The EEC relay should be very close.

 

graphic

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

The fuel pump relay has four wires: Red, Yellow, Brown, and a Tan with a light green stripe.

 

The EEC relay has four wires as well: Red, Yellow, Black and white with light blue stripe wire.

 

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thank's for the picture = it help's a lot . Now I need to check everything again and will forward my finding's to you when I finish. Something else I'm thinking about is the pick-up relay and if it could cause he no spark condition . Anyway I will get back to you as soon as I can. Thanks
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

According to "Ford", the computer turns off the check engine light on the dash when the computer recognizes the engine rpm. Because you told me the check engine light goes off while cranking, tells me that the pick up sensor is working and the computer sees a crank signal.

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thanks again- It is raining here and I'm outside working on the truck and have now stopped until it quits raining. As soon as I have results I will contact you
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

SOunds good!

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
This is likaford with an info update for you. The fuel relay has a broken wire in the plug-in to it. The problem is , I can't find another plug-in so I can splice the wires. I'm going to a salvage yard close by and try to find a decent plug-in and wires. I will talk to you after that. Thanks again.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

SOunds good!

 

Let me know!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
This is likaford again with an update. I found a plug-in for the fuel pump relay results are neg. Itested again and with the key on two wires have power into the relay. A yellow wire and a tan w/green stripe have power with the key on. Only the yellow wire has power with key off. I also rechecked the eec relay connection and with the key on only a yellow wire has power. I also rechecked the checkengine condition and hee is what I observed No check engine light comes on- When turned the key on a engine light comes on and stays on when cranking the engine. I don'tever see a check engine light. I hope this helps out but I am pretty confused rightnow.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Did you say that the engine light stays on while cranking? WHat color is this engine light? Red or yellow?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
The light is red. I dim's but does not go out while cranking. Again this light is engine light only and not check engine ligt unless thecheck is burnt out.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Is this light an oil light?

 

Is there any check engine light on th dash when the key is turned on?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
When I turn the key on, there are only two lights on: the engine light and a battery indicator There are guages and they all seem to work. I think I may not have cranked long enough because I cranked more that10 seconds and the engine light went out. At the same time the oil guage activated. So that light may be for oil indicator.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok..

 

Lets do this.

 

Turn the key on and check for a 5 volt reference on one of the wires at the TPS sensor.

 

Let me know!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
What is this sensor and where is it located? I probably shoud know but am drawing a blank rightnow.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

It is a three wire sensor located on the throttle body.

 

It will sit right across the throttle body from the where the throttle cable attaches to.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
If I am checking the right sensor , I'm not getting any voltage on any of the three wires. This is fuel-injection and I think I need a picture of this sensor so I know for sure.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

SUre..

 

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I was testing the right snsor. No indication of voltage on any of the three wires.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Is there a dark green wire with a light green stripe at the TPS sensor? THis is the wire that should have battery voltage with the key on.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
es- Tested the darkgreenw/lighter green stripe but no indication of voltage here.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok...

 

We are on the right track.

 

This tells me that the computer is not waking up. It is most likely missing a power or a ground. As long as the fuses are good and that the ignition switch (electrical part) is good, then we will need to go straight to the computer and check all powers and grounds there. THis can be a bit of a pain to gain access to the computer and check powers and grounds, but I will stick with you all the way.

 

If you want to check fuses under the hood as well as inside the car and check the ignition switch for power coming out on the correct wire/wires, then we can do that before checking the powers and grounds at the pcm.

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Let's check the ignition switch and everything first. I'll check the obviouse fuses and have you tell me what to do on other items. Thanks
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok...

 

WHat I am going to have you do, is check for power on two of the four wires at the EEC main relay with the key on.

 

If we have power on two of these wires with the key on, we know that ignition switch is good.

 

If you need a location or a wiring diagram of the EEC relay, just let me know!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I tested what i think is the eec relay wires and only onehas power with the key on and that is a green wire with a lighter stripe. The fuses in the fuse block all look o.k.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

The eec main relay is located At Air Cleaner Support Bracket, Under Plastic Shield

 

Here is a wiring diagram.

 

graphic

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
We should have power on the yellow wire and the white with light blue stripe wire.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
When I checked the right relay, I have two wires with power and they are the yellow wire and the white w/stripe wire.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Excellent!

 

NOw, lets go to the fuel pump relay and check for power on the red wire and the yellow wire with the key on. You might have to cycle the key off, wait 10 seconds and then turn the key on to see if both of these wires are getting power when you turn the key on.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
The yellow wire has power but the red wire does not ever.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok...

 

Good!

 

Lets go back to the EEC relay and check for power on this red wire when turning the key on and when cranking. THis is the wire that comes out of the EEC relay if this relay is engaging

 

Let me know!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
There is no power at the red wire with key on or while cranking.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

This is the red wire coming off of the EEC main relay?

 

Does the black wire have a ground?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok..

 

SO lets recap.

 

The two wires going into this relay have power with the key on? Yellow wire and white with a light blue stripe wire?

 

THe black wire has ground?

 

And no power coming out on the red wire?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
that's right - I don't see any power on the red wire.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok..

 

If what you are telling me is true, you simple have a bad main relay! You will need to replace that relay with a new one. You can try to swap one from another place like the AC relay if its the same. Just be sure not to use one from a place that will cause the engine to not start like the fuel pump relay.

 

We need to get power to this red wire. Upon turning the key on and cranking this main relay should click suppling power to this red wire coming from the main relay.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
o.k. I'll try to swap one out or replace with a new one if I can get it. Thanks. And I will contact you when I get this done.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
SOunds good!
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I got new relays, put them on and tested. I have the same results as before. No power to the red wire on the eec relay. Maybe I had better make sure I have a good ground beforegoing much further.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok... Does this relay click when you turn the key on or when cranking the engine over?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

No - Inever hear it click. In review - th two relays I have been working with that (I think) are the eec relay and the fuel pump relay. The eec relay has the following wire colors.

EEC relay - Yellow / Power alt the time

Red

Tan w/stripe/ Power w/ key-on

Black

Fuel pump relay = Green/ Power all the time

Brown

Red

White or Tan

 

These wires are a little dis-colored

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

According to the diagram, the EEC relay has four wires. THey are as follows:

 

Yellow

Red

white/light blue stripe

Black

 

 

UNDERHOOD VIEW
In fuse box, left side of engine compartment, on top front of wheel well

 

graphic

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
graphic
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

I'll keep looking and try a couple of things. As you have probably noted, I'm not really very good at this electronic stuff. Send me your ideas and i'll try them out/ Thanks

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

I think you are doing a perfect job!

 

We just need to find the correct relay and check for power coming out of this relay when it clicks on the red wire.

 

When we are sure we are on the correct relay, we just need to run the same tests. We need to have two powers going in (When cranking), one ground, the relay should click and send out power on the forth and final wire.

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
o.k. I'm working on it And I think the ground must be the culprit. If I can just find the break. Again, thanks
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Well, if the ground is causing the relay to not engage, you don't have to necessarily find the break in the old ground wire. You can just simply run a new wire to ground.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
o.k. I'll try that and test again. if not the ground, I'm probably on the wrong relay. I'll keep testing
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Well, before you run a new wire, with a test light, just see if you have a good ground on that wire. Or, use a voltmeter and do a voltage drop.

 

Look for the relay with the four color wires that I described earlier

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
o.k.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
THis relay might be inside the fuse box with other relays.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
That's good to know. i will check that also. Thanks
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

SOunds good!

 

Let me know!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
It is not the ground wire.I put on a new ground with thesame results. Also checked at fuse block for relays but they are not there. Also, I haven't found two relays with the wiring pattern we are talkng about. Maybe,the wires have been modified over time and somone change the color scheme. I don't know what else to think right now. I just need to find out for sure I am testig the right ones andthat the wires are correct.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

SOmetimes the wires fad over time. Go to the relays that you were testing and follow the wires down the harness and see if the wire colors change.

 

THe only other thing I can think of is checking the Vin number to be sure we are talking about the same vehicle. (Year and model).

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I'll check the wires at the wiring harness for sure I'll also check the vin #
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

SOunds good!

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I have traced the wires into the wiring harness and the colors dont seem to change. Also- the VIN # XXXXX XXXXX I'm still trying different things but haven't made a whole lot of progress.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Well, keep trying! It will sure feel good when we get to the bottom of this thing!

 

Let me know if you have any further questions!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Hi - I got the truck running around 12:00 noon my time. You pretty much had the problem penned down but it took me awhile to check it all out. I found a broken ground wire which I think started all the trouble. From there I found about 5 burned out wire in the wiring harness to bot the eec and fuel pump relay's. Then I found 4 or5 fuses in different places (othe than the fuse block that had to be replaced. fter that, it started up and has run ever since. So, hopefully, it's fixed! You really helped me out on this and I sure appreciate the assistance.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

EXCELLENT!

 

Glad to hear its fixed!

 

Let me know if you have any further questions!

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