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Ron
Ron, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 26898
Experience:  23 years with Ford specializing in drivability and electrical and AC. Ford certs and ASE Certs
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po173 code and a 174 on a 02 e250..po171..module..coolant temp..rpm

Resolved Question:

I am getting a po173 code and a 174 on a '02 e250. 5.4
the read out is as follows; PO171 sys too lean bank 1
module fuel and air metering
statis stored
freeze frame (frame 0)
fuel system bank 1 closed loop
fuel system bank 2 not reporting
calculated load 51%
coolant temp 176
Short term fuel trim Bank 1 -7.8%
long term fuel trim   Bank 1 -14.04%
Short term fuel trim Bank 2 -12.48%
long term fuel trim   Bank 2 -14.62%
RPM 1739
Speed 39mph


PO174 system too lean bank 2
PO173 system too rich bank 2
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.

HiCustomer

 

 

Thank you for asking your question on JustAnswer.

 

The common cause for the problem you are describing is in most cases caused by an unmetered air leak into the intake. The usual suspect is in most cases the PCV hose , they are known to rot out at the back of the upper intake where the rubber elbow connects to it. Locate the PCV valve on the passenger side valve cover and follow it around to the back of the upper intake and have a look. If this hose checks ok, inspect the rest of them because it likely you have a leak and it usually a split or broken hose and not bad HO2S sensors.

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

I pulled the hose off and visually checked it for cracks, looked ok. Put it back on and tested it with some propane, still no leak. I changed all the hoses back to the canisted, canister looked ok. I hooked up my code scanner and got the following red flags:

EVAP SYST Monitor     incomplete

Heated o2 bank 1 voltage amp and threshold      0.0
    "   "   " 2   "      "    "     "          0.0

Phase 0 Initial tank vacuum      -63.898
Phase 4 vapor generation max change in pressure and max threshhold   -63.898

Phase 4 vapor generation max absolute pressure and threshold -63.898

o2 sensor fuel trim 99.06
I replaced the pass side o2 sensor, pcv valve, cleanes the map sensor, cleared the codes and got the same result. there is a steel pipe between two canister hoses i replaced that has some rust on it, but i dont hear a vacuum leak.
any ideas?
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.

What code are you getting?

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
This is what the screen reads

PO171
module fuel and air metering
statis stored
freeze frame (frame 0)
fuel system bank 1 closed loop
fuel system bank 2 not reporting
calculated load 51%
coolant temp 176
Short term fuel trim Bank 1 -7.8%
long term fuel trim   Bank 1 -14.04%
Short term fuel trim Bank 2 -12.48%
long term fuel trim   Bank 2 -14.82%
RPM 1739
Speed 39mph
po 174 po sys too lean bank 2
po 175 po sys too rich bank 2
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.

HiCustomer

 

Thank you for asking your question on JustAnswer.

 

This code is in almost every case set due to an unmetered air leak. If you are sure you have no leaks then I can send the pinpoint test if you want to chase it down.

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
that sounds good, I will try your pinpoint test and let you know the results.
thanks
john
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
that sounds good, I will try your pinpoint test and let you know the results. thanks john
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.

Here is the Pinpoint.

 

H40 DTCS P0171, P0174, P1130, P1131, P1150, OR P1151: LEAN SYSTEM DTCS

    • Bank 1 = DTC P0171 (lean)
    • Bank 2 = DTC P0174 (lean)
    • HO2S-11 = DTCs P1130 and P1131
    • HO2S-21 = DTCs P1150 and P1151
  • Note: Do not clear the DTCs or reset the keep alive memory (KAM).

    Fuel System and HO2S DTC Reference List:

  • Access and record the ECT PID from the freeze frame data. The freeze frame data will be used to recreate the concern.
  • Retrieve and record the self-test DTCs.

Are any DTCs present other than P0171, P0174, P1130, P1131, P1150, or P1151?

Yes No
DISREGARD the current diagnostic trouble code (DTC) at this time. GO to Section 4, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Charts and REPAIR the other DTCs. GO to H41 .

H41 CARRY OUT A VISUAL INSPECTION OF THE INTAKE AIR SYSTEM AND ALL VACUUM HOSES

  • Check the intake air system for leaks, obstructions, and damage.
  • Inspect the entire length of all the vacuum hoses for:
    • proper connections.
    • damage or cracks.
    • damaged or cracked vacuum tees.
  • Verify the integrity of the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system.
  • Verify the proper PCV valve part number.

Is a concern present?

Yes No
GO to H44 . GO to H42 .

H42 CHECK FOR THE PRESENCE OF A VACUUM LEAK

    Note: Fuel trim values at idle are more sensitive to a vacuum leak. The vacuum leak (unmetered air) represents a larger portion of the total air flow at idle than at part throttle.

    Note: The barometric pressure (BARO) PID is not a recommended PID to monitor when diagnosing a vacuum leak. Barometric pressure is calculated during high engine load, when the vacuum leak represents a small portion of the total air flow.

    Note: As an example, when calculating the total fuel correction in the following steps, if LONGFT1 = +13% and SHRTFT1 = +23%, the total fuel correction for bank 1 = +36%, also if LONGFT2 = +24% and SHRTFT2 = -3% the total fuel correction for bank 2 = +21%.

    Note: If the freeze frame ECT PID is available, stabilize the engine at the temperature recorded by the freeze frame ECT PID. If the freeze frame ECT PID is not available, maintain the engine coolant temperature between 82°C - 101°C (180°F - 215°F) and the intake air temperature less than 46°C (115°F).

  • Key on, engine running.
  • Access and monitor the ECT or CHT, IAT, LONGFT1, SHRTFT1, LONGFT2 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
  • Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
  • Add and record the LONGFT PID value to the SHRTFT PID value for each bank, for a total fuel correction at idle.
  • Increase the engine speed to 2500 rpm for 10 seconds.
  • Record the LONGFT1, SHRTFT1, LONGFT2, and SHRTFT2 PID values.
  • Add and record the LONGFT PID value to the SHRTFT PID value for each bank, for a total fuel correction at 2500 rpm.

Is the total fuel correction value change, between idle and 2500 rpm, less than 15 percent?

Yes No
No vacuum leak is present.

GO to H47 .
GO to H43 .

H43 LOCATE THE VACUUM LEAK

    CAUTION: Do not clamp or pinch a hard plastic hose. Use a vacuum cap or equivalent to restrict the hose.

    Note: Restricting the EVAP vapor hose while the EVAP emission canister is purging may shift the SHRTFT. Carry out a visual inspection as necessary.

    Note: As an example, when monitoring for a decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs in the following steps, if SHRTFT1 is +15%, but when the hose is restricted SHRTFT1 decrease to -7%, the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs = 22 percent.

  • Locate the vacuum tees for the intake air and PCV systems.
  • Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
  • Restrict the vacuum lines one at a time for 30 seconds. If a vacuum leak is present, the SHRTFT PID values will decrease as the hose is restricted.

Is the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs greater than 15 percent when one of the vacuum hoses is restricted?

Yes No
GO to H44 . INSPECT the intake air system for a vacuum leak in the intake manifold or intake gaskets. REPAIR as necessary.

For repair verification, GO to H44 .

H44 VACUUM LEAK REPAIR VERIFICATION

    Note: If the freeze frame ECT PID is available, stabilize the engine at the temperature recorded by the freeze frame ECT PID. If the freeze frame ECT PID is not available, maintain the engine coolant temperature between 82°C - 101°C (180°F - 215°F) and the intake air temperature less than 46°C (115°F).

  • Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
  • Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
  • Record the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PID values.
  • Key off.
  • Repair the vacuum leak.
  • Key on, engine running.
  • Allow the engine to stabilize at the temperature necessary to recreate the concern.
  • Access and monitor the SHRTFT1 and SHRTFT2 PIDs.
  • Compare the recorded SHRTFT PID values, prior to the vacuum leak repair, to the current SHRTFT PID values.

Is the decrease in the SHRTFT PIDs greater than 15 percent?

Yes No
Fault found.

RESET the keep alive memory (KAM). REFER to Section 2, Resetting The Keep Alive Memory (KAM).
A vacuum leak is still present, GO

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I pinched the EVAP line starting at the front and working my way back to the canister . unplugged, I got readings fluctuating between .78 and 5.46
as i plugged the line going back the readings dropped to -48 to + 3.56. Then i plugged the line going up to the gas tank and the reading went above + 10 ? It deems there must be something going on with the tank, but why wouldn't it go up to 10+ when i plugged the line ahead of the tank?
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.

HiCustomer

 

Thank you for asking your question on JustAnswer.

 

Yes I would agree, you could have something going in or on the tank . Im not sure why it dosnt go to 10 because I am not there to run the test with you and its hard to say from here.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I will try pinching the line at the rear of the engine again, and see if it goes to 10, and work back again frome there and see if it come up the same.
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.
ok let me know.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I re-did the test with different results. I didn't get a noticeable difference in the shrtft. I went to the live data grid on my program and everything seems to be within specs (at idle, and 172 degrees)except the o2 fuel trim, that is maxed out at 99. and the ignition timing advance #1 goes in and out of its acceptable range.

I get the same reading on the shrtft when I pinch the hose at the rear of engine as i do when it is clear.
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.
Well the one thing that catches my eye is engine temp at 172 degrees, is that right?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes, and it has been idling for about a hour
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.

HiCustomer

 

Thank you for asking your question on JustAnswer.

 

Well this engine need to run at least 192 degrees, It looks like you have a stuck open T stat. At 172 its not going to go into closed loop.

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I will swap it out in the morning, and let you know
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.
I am not saying it going to fix it but this engine need to see 192 to go into close loop.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
it is a place to start
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.
Yes it is, let me know .
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I swapped out the thermostat and now it gets up to 205 at idle. I cleared the codes and ran it .It tripped a code in a short while, Don't know why it tripped at 172, the exact same temp it tripped the last two times. it stutters slightly on acceleration and when you hold the pedal steady. Here is what it said on my scan tool (auto Enginuity)

po171 system too lean (bank 1)
   Module fuel and air metering
   status stored
   Freeze frame (frame 1)
     fuel system bank one closed loop
     fuel system bank two not reporting
     calculated load 59%
     coolant temp 172f
     short term fuel trim bank 1 6.24%
     long term fuel trim bank 1 0.78%
     short term fuel trim bank 2 6.24%
     long term fuel trim bank 2 3.90%
     engine rpm 1119r/min
     vehicle speed 6mph
po174 system too lean (bank 2)

I thought i would clear the codes and plug the vapor recovery system at the rear of the engine (to bypass all the lines, canister and tank). If it pops the same codes, it is not that stuff. Am i thinking ok on this? Any other suggestions are welcome
john
     
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.
You have a vacuum leak some where , You next step if this dosnt work is a smoke test.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
no noticeable difference in the engine when I plugged off the vapor recovery. It did trigger the check engine light, but I haven't read the code yet. I just ordered a smoke tester off eBay and will give it a shot. Is it possible something internally is wrong? a valve , head gasket? manifold gasket? I did hit the engine with propane without a noticeable difference. It is a pain with the van, the engine is buried. The truck has 140,000 miles on it. My partner ran it for two months with that # XXXXX coil not working (I wanted to kill him). \
thanks
john
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.
No not likely, these are lean codes.I could be an intake gasket tho.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I will let you know what happens as soon as i smoke test it. have a great weekend
john
Expert:  Ron replied 5 years ago.
Thank you John. let me know.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I smoke tested the system and and the only place I saw smoke was an open pipe above the spare tire. I went to a black plastic box and then to the canister. any ideas?
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.

HiCustomer

 

Thank you for asking your question on JustAnswer.

 

 

What is the code its setting now?

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
PO171 System too lean (bank !)
Moduale fuel and air metering
Statis Stored

Freeze Frame (frame 0)
Fuel System bank 1 closed loop
Fuel System bank 2 not reported
calculated load 68%
coolant temp 203 f
Short term fuel trim bank 1 5.46%
Long term fuel trim bank 1 5.46%
Short term fuel trim bank 2 5.46%
Long term fuel trim bank 2 -4.86%
RPM 778
Vehicle speed 0mph
PO174 system too lean
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
Ok then this is still a lean code , you really do need to do the pinpoint test I sent you.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I have started with the pinpoint check, the PCV lines and valve are good, new valve and no visable cracks or breaks in the hose or elbo . I disconnecterd the vacuum line from the manifold and blew smoke in to the lines, no sign of a leak. I then hooked up a vacuum pump to the EGR valve and it held vaccuum. I hooked it up to the VMV and it would not hold any vaccuum. When I ran smoke through the EVAP system (disconected at the rear of the engine, I only got smoke comming from an open pipe above the spare tire. It went to a black plastic box and then to the canister. Do you think the VMV valve is bad? Could that plastic box be bad ? I will start the other tests as well.
thanks
John
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
Yes eaither one could be bad and also besure that you have good fuel pressure as well.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Should the VMV hold vacuum with a vacuum pump ? Is there a way to test the black box (What is it?) I will test the fuel pressure as well. 45 -65psi is what my book says?
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
I have never tested it that way If there was no smoke coming out of it while every thing was hooked up, its likely ok. Yes the pressure right.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I found this when looking for a test for the VMV , The one on my truck will not hold vacuum for 2 seconds. Do you think my valve is bad or is it diferent on diferent trucks(this was a 99 ranger)? What is that Black box above the spare tire that is hooked up to the canister, I can't seem to find any info on that in my books. it is the hose to open air on this box where I say the smoke when testing the evap system. I want to thank you for your help with this, I am going to fix this or die trying!!


KE21 CHECK EVAP SYSTEM FOR A STUCK OPEN VALVE

  • Disconnect hoses at EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
  • Connect a hand vacuum pump at the fuel vapor port to EVAP canister at the EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
  • Apply 53 kPa (16 in-Hg) of vacuum to EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
    View Full Image


Does the EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV) hold vacuum for 20 seconds?

Yes No
RECONNECT hoses. GO to KE22 . REPLACE EVAP canister purge valve.
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
I have repalce a few valve because of this code, so yes it is possiable.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I will do the fuel pressure check in the morning(they did not have the right adapter) and I will replce that valve and see how that works. do you know what that Black box is, above the spare tire, that is hooked up to the canister.
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
That would be the carbon canister assembly.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I am still waiting for the proper adapter for the fuel pump test, but I was looking over the air filter and noticed that the boot or plug that the map sensor wires passes thru to enter the housing was out. could it be that simple?
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
Yes it actually could be, you can not have any unmetered leaks down stream of the MAF sensor.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Ok, I put it all back togearther and went to get the fuel presture adapter. I drove it 10 miles plus with out the light coming on three seperate starts. Got home hooked up the comuter and retrieved a 174 code, light was not on. I hooked up the presure teaster and got a hair under 30 @idle, diconnected the vacuum line from the pressure regulator and it went up to 40. I pinched the return line and it went up to 70. Somewhere in this test the light came on. I think we are getting close. what do you make of this. My book says 30-40 (5.4 L) at idle

PO171 System too lean (bank !)
PO174 System too rich (bank !)
Moduale fuel and air metering
Statis Stored

Freeze Frame (frame 0)
Fuel System bank 1 closed loop
Fuel System bank 2 not reported
calculated load 80%
coolant temp 185 f
Short term fuel trim bank 1 0.78%
Long term fuel trim bank 1 28.08%
Short term fuel trim bank 2 0.78%
Long term fuel trim bank 2 29.64%
RPM 678
Vehicle speed 0mph

I also get a maginal reading in my Live data as thae engine idles:
B152 oxy sensor fuel trim @99%
Ingnition timing at 63.5
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.

HiCustomer

 

Yes the pressure in most cases will hold 35 easy and with fuel returned pinched off it should have gone to at least 100PSI. I think the fuel pressure may be an issue, Have a look at pressure when you stand on it. 30 is to low.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
This is driving me crazy! You too I would imagine. I took it for a ride with the gauge hooked up, It never went above 35. It dropped back to 30 at idle. When I pinched the line, it went to 75. A side note, The Ac compressor clicks on and off at idle the swich is on heat.
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.

The AC compressor will cycle on heat (defrost) .

 

The fuel pressure should go up on heavy accel as the vacuum drops.

If its holding at 35 under load then you are ok.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I am doing the pinpoint check, and find that at idle I get 33.54 on both banks on long term fuel trim, I get a flucuating short term reading from -5 to + 13

At 2500 rpm, I get 17 LTFT banks 1&2 and a flutuation -3 to + 4 STFT on the meter.
If I switch over to a graph the LT stays steady and stright, ST fucuates but stays parrellel to the LT and when raised to 2500 rpms, it seems to be within the 15% Should those ST readings be steady? If not it says to go t H$& which I don't have on the sheet.
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
That type of long trim tells me you have a leak.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
The reason I was looking in the EVAP for a leak is I get some failed "onboard test results" on my scanner

Catalist monitering bank one switch ratio and max limit is .655 (close to failing at .792)

Evap moniter -63.898
phase 4 vapor generation max change in preasure -63.895
phase 4 vapor generatio max absolute pressure and max threshold -63.898
cyl events tested # XXXXX events required per 1000 revolution 6404 (4000 max value)

I pumped smoke into the hose evap system past the engine and only got smoke comming out of a hose from the black box after the canister. I pumped smoke into the hose that attaches to the throtel body and no leaks. I took off the pcv hose and pluged one end and pumped it with smoke, and no leaks . I put in a new pcv valve. I sprayed carb cleaner around the manifolds with no change in rpms, I even blew some propane around without any change. I am not sure what else to do.

Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
With out being there Im am unsure how to advise you as well. I dont think .665 is an issue. We dont want to throw parts at it. I think if it where me, I would step back and sleep on it tonight. Sometimes its easier to see the trees if we get out of the forest. Your over looking something here.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I will try again in the morning, thanks
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
Your very welcome.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Back again, I found this on another post and wondered if this would apply to me. I hooked up a vacuum pump to my VMV valve and it did not hold vacuum. Could this be my leak?
And would this give me the 171 &174 codes, and bad vapor generation readings? I am about to go over the whole vacuum system again for leaks

KEY OFF. REPAIR as necessary. KEY OFF. GO to KE21 .

KE21 CHECK EVAP SYSTEM FOR A STUCK OPEN VALVE

  • Disconnect hoses at EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
  • Connect a hand vacuum pump at the fuel vapor port to EVAP canister at the EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
  • Apply 53 kPa (16 in-Hg) of vacuum to EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
    View Full Image


Does the EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV) hold vacuum for 20 seconds?

Yes No
RECONNECT hoses. GO to KE22 . REPLACE EVAP canister purge valve.

KE22 CHECK IAC VALVE FOR PROPER FUNCTION

Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
Yes it applies and yes if its leaking vacuum it can set these codes.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I just went over the whole vacuum system and found no noticable leaks. I then took a 3" PVC pipe end cap, drilled and tapped it for a nipple. I clamped it in the air intake and hooked up the smoker. It poured out of a hole for the valve cover breather hose(it fell out and I could not see it in the van). I plugged it back in and blew more smoke in,. It still leaked a small amout around both pipes at that spot, but they are just press in connections, no clamps. I cleared the codes and took it for a ten munute ride, starting and shutting it off twice. got back and hooked up the scanner and no codes. I will take it out for another test ride and let you know. Could this be it?
I misread that VMV vacuum test, It was ment to test the larger hoses. I tried it and it held the vacuum. The part that does not hold vacuum is the small vacuum line from the throtle body. Should that hold vacuum, like the EGR valve?
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.

The leak in the valve could very well be it. Let me know.

Ron, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 26898
Experience: 23 years with Ford specializing in drivability and electrical and AC. Ford certs and ASE Certs
Ron and 6 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
so far so good. It seems it was that valve cover breather that was not in place, probably combined with that map sensor boot. It stutters slightly when crousing steady, but maybe that will pass.
thanks for all your help
John
Expert:  Ron replied 4 years ago.
Great Job! If you need me let me know and Thank you very Much as well.

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