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Chris (aka- Moose)
Chris (aka- Moose), Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 35128
Experience:  16 years experience
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2002 Explorer: power windows..replaced blown 60 fuse but still no luck

Customer Question

I have a 2002 Explorer. All power windows no longer work.   Have replaced blown 60 fuse but still no luck. Is the next step the accessory delay relay or is it something else?
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

Hello Smagill, I'm Chris, a current Ford Lincoln Mercury employee.

 

Thanks for visiting Just Answer. I will do my very best to help you resolve your concerns.

 

Am I understanding you correct that fuse 6 60amp under the hood was blown?

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Yes. Fuse 6.
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

Has it blown since you replaced it and tried the windows?

Have you checked fuse 47 30amp under the hood?

The next step will be to find the short which poped this fuse and see if the acc delay relay is powering up and actually sending power to the master window switch.

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Replaced Fuse 6. Did not reblow and windows still do not work.

 

Can see from circuit diagram that there should be a fuse 47, but I don't have such a beast in my powerbox. Space 47 is for a relay (unused). Checked all 30 amp fuses in entire powerbox. All look OK.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

See if this shows it.

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Now after 11PM here on east coast. Have to go to bed. Will look tomorrow.
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
Sounds good. If a reply is needed please do so, I am online here at JA every evening like now.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

OK, I'm back. Checked the car, clearly not the late model build box and layout.

 

Have owners guide 2L2J-19A321-AB dated January 2001. Sure doesn't sound as if this would be a late model build.

 

It shows box position 47 (currently empty for me) to be "Daytime running lamp relay (Canada) or GCC pusher fan (Export)"

 

I have 30 amp fuses at:

4 - rear defrost

13 - trailer tow battery

20 - electric brake

23 - ignition switch

33 - auxiliary blower motor

34 - power seats

 

in the box and two in the interior fuse panel:

1 - memory seat module

8 washer pump relays

 

Can't find a single fuse or relay at any amp rating that names power window.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

OK the early build has pretty much the same diagram but it has a circuit breaker i nthe circuit so lets verify power on the other side of it then continue to the relay before pulling the drivers door switch to start checking there.

graphicgraphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

OK. If I understand properly, it looks like the diagram is telling me that power goes from the box to C1137 and then on elsewhere. You want me to check for 12V DC on the far side of the breaker (yellow/light green wire). Correct?

 

Is it my imagination from diagram or is the relay part of a different box (like the interior fuse panel) and should I also check status of fuse 17 (15Amp) as well?

 

Either way, this is a daylight operation and it is nearly 11. Looks like we are at it for another day (rain permitting). Thanks for your patience.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

Yes to checking the power on the other side of the breaker.

 

Yes the relay is under the dash in the CJB, there should be fuse power there from 17 and a ground signal below that fuse in the diagram and fuse power on the upper right from the battery junction box and then power out on the bottom right if all of these inputs are met.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Here's what I found.

 

C1137 gets power. Tested circuit breaker using ohm-meter and it's OK. Believe we can assume power on the other side.

 

Went under the dash and pulled fuse 17. It was OK. While putting it back in, could hear relay cycling as it received ground.

 

Relay is on the top of the circuit box and would have required me figuring out how to remove the box and look on the top. Since it's pretty tight in there and I'm not an expert, have elected not to do so, given the way the relay acted as fuse was replaced.

 

Based on this, it appears that the problem may be inside the door with, perhaps, the master switch. What do you think?

 

If you think we need to go inside the door panel, will need some instruction on how that comes off.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

Lets get that master window switch off to see if we have power and ground there while the key is on.

graphicgraphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Here's where I still need help.

 

I'm looking at the picture to remove the assembly from the door trim panel. It says to pry upwards on the front. Have tried using very large screwdriver from underneath panel. No luck. Have tried getting my fingers between inside of assembly and panel and lifting out and up. No luck. Have used what feels to me to be a lot of force. Am getting whole trim panel to move but hold down clips have not released.

 

What do you think I should do?

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
I really need one here to yank off to say do exactly this since everyone is different. I do know I just use my fingers to do this. I do know at the rear is a J hook which requires sliding the panel forward to release so all pulling and prying is required from the leading edge. I also believe its got another lip on the back edge near the door panel. It does not come out easy so some effort is going to be needed.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

After a bit of drama, got the damn thing off.

 

Checked for power in 2 and 6. Nothing. Confirmed wire 2 should be black; 6 should be light blue/black. Ignition switch was on and radio was playing.

 

Does this mean it's the relay?

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

This means there is a wire issue back to the relay like a wire break in the door jam or the relay is faulty or the relay you heard click is not the relay you need to click. The GEm modeule shown in the circuit must br grounding the relay to make it operate.

The ACC delay relay is on the back of trhe fuse panel.

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Ugh! Seriously doubt that it is a door/wire issue. Will next try to test the relay.

 

Am I correct that the correct relay is K126 from the diagram you sent me. If so, what test do I need to make?

 

Also, see GEM module from previous circuit diagram. Where is that located?

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

Yes its K126

graphic

 

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Friday night. Went to dealer and bought replacement relay. Since the thing is on the top of the interior fuse panel, I have to remove the panel to replace the relay. Any tricks I should know?

 

Looking forward to having working windows and accepting your answer.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
So I assume you have tested and verified the relay is your fault here in this concern. There are not really any tricks here. You just need to either reach in to the back side to replace the relay or disconnect the fuse panel to gain better access to the rear.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Well, replaced the relay. That was a lot of fun!

 

Still no power across the door master switch. However, have 12V running from #6 on master direct to chassis. Do not have ground signal between #2 and direct to chassis.

 

If I've done this right, relay works but something is wrong with ground. Didn't see anything on the circuit diagram that might help. What's next?

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

So we do have power on pin 6 at the windows switch when using a volt meter , correct?

But when you ohm pin 2 to ground it shows high resistance or an open circuit?

If you use a jumper wire to ground and pin 2 does the window then work?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Tried Jumping pin 2. Window works. What's next?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.

OK lets find out why the ground is inop. It can be a broken wire in the harness to the door jam or a pin concern in the window switch connector or a concern where it is grounded to the chassis.

graphicgraphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

More info, some of it confusing, at least to me.

 

Have 12V coming in to door switches from from female plug, position 6 when grounding to chassis. No ground signal, from position 2.

 

When I plug into the switches, situation changes. No longer see 12V from position 6 when grounding to chassis.

 

Have tested switches for function. Appears as if the front front window switch does not work properly. Switch appears to close for window up (6 to 8), but not for window down (6 to 7).

 

Even more strange, when I jumped the ground earlier today was able to get the left front window to go down. That was my earlier reply. Now, when I jump the gound, can't get ANY function up or down, for any window.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
With the new info it appears the switch has an internal short circuit which is drawing all the power out and causing the no voltage issue. lets get a new switch on it and see what happens and double check the pin 2 for ground issues to the chassis. If you have 12 volts unplugged but not when plugged up then you have something in the switch pulling all the power and draining it.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

OK. Bought a new switch and installed it. Please note that have not yet attempted to address lack of ground.

 

Pin 6 shows 12V unplugged from switch; 0V when plugged into the new switch. Both tests are jumping from back of pin 6 direct to chassis ground.

 

Still no ability to get any window function - even when jumping from pin 2 to ground.

 

In other words, it appears that new switch makes no difference.

 

I must be doing something wrong. Ideas?

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
When you plug in the switch new or old is the relay clicking and turning off.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Have not heard anything from the relays. Assume you refer to the accessory delay relay under the dash.

 

If things are working properly, should the relay click off? I would think not.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
The relay must stay energized for power to get to the window motor master switch. run a jumper wire from the battery to the master switch to see if all the windows work then. If so then somewhere some how there is a concern in the wire from the window to the fuse panel.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Have been tied up elsewhere.

 

If I run jumpers to the master switch, assume I should ensure that the switch is plugged into the wiring harness but swap out pins 2 and 6 before I use the jumper wires, right?

 

Then, assuming the windows work, try the power side using pin 6 powered from the harness with a ground jumper (what I've been trying before). If I lose window function we go back to the relay or some other problem on the power side.

 

I've also identified that the ground wire on pin 2 does not appear to ground to the chassis. You suggested running an alternate wire. Before I do that, do you have info as to where the pin 2 black wire goes to after it makes it through the door? There is a very large plug set under the drivers side dash that I had to disconnect when I replaced the accessory delay relay last weekend. If I can, would like to go from there to a chassis ground rather than trying to run another wire through the door. If the orginal ground wire runs through to the plug (and it's OK), would be much easier to start from there. Any way to know what position it is in the plug?

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
You only jumper power to the power wire from the relay and you only jumper ground to the ground wire pin. The ground for this circuit was shown many posts ago and it is in the rear of the vehicle behind the drivers quarter panel. I cant say I have seen a master switch have power till plugged up it almost sounds like your not getting a good ground on your test lead where ever your grounding it to.
Chris (aka- Moose), Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 35128
Experience: 16 years experience
Chris (aka- Moose) and 8 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

You were right. Good power to master switch but no good ground, even when I was jumping it. Problem solved.

 

Thanks for patience.

Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
Good job
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
How can I ask YOU another question and not have it go to another expert?
Expert:  Chris (aka- Moose) replied 5 years ago.
You open another thread and include my full name in it and ask the question at about 7-10 pm cst when I am online most.

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Chris (aka- Moose)
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