How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask AMEDEE Your Own Question

AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 21843
Experience:  ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
279429
Type Your Ford Question Here...
AMEDEE is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

ford 5.4L has a miss to it and runs rough, always gets 8 miles to gallon.

Customer Question

trying to fix performance problem, truck misses and runs rough when cold then still misses when warm, recently changed oil and now it is tapping. oil pressure is fine, my belief is that something is leaning out a cylinder or it is not firing and hydraulic pressure, had it to local ford dealer once, no codes, they also snapped an exhaust manifold bolt then said they couldn't fix it.
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Hello!

 

DOes it misfire more when idling or cruising or accelerating?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
misfire is more pronounce at the idle when cold but is noticible when under load at acceleration all the time, I am wondering if I should change out the coil packs one by one to rule them out.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

These could packs do have a high rate of failure!

 

You could do that, just be sure you have compression in all cylinders. THat would eliminate any possibility of an engine problem.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
all but one are original #4, would a bad injector cause the leaning out and the valve chatter, is there a way to hook up computer to check fuel system mixture at each cylinder and to check coil operation. as you can see I am of old school like working on old engines!!!
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Well a computer would only tell you what cylinder is misfiring. Maybe what bank and if its a fuel or a spark issue if you know what you where looking at.

 

You best bet, it to get it to act up and then pull the plug for each injector or coil one by one until you have isolated which cylinder is misfiring. Then, go and do more specific tests on that cylinder to determine what the problem is.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
is there a way to check the coils with a meter, what does ford set as there test parameters
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ford wants the technicians to use a scope to diagnose the ignition coils.

 

This is so common in fact, there is a TSB for it.

 

Here it is.

 

TSB 05-22-8

11/14/05

WDS COP KIT DIAGNOSTIC TIPS - COIL ON PLUG
(COP) IGNITION SYSTEMS - ENGINE MISFIRE OR
ROUGH RUNNING

FORD:
1996-1999 Taurus SHO
1998-2006 Crown Victoria, Mustang
2000 Taurus
2002-2005 Thunderbird
2003-2006 Focus
2004-2006 Taurus
2005-2006 Five Hundred, Freestyle
1997-2006 E-Series, Expedition, F-150
1999-2006 F-Super Duty
2000-2005 Excursion, F-53
2001-2006 Escape
2002-2005 Explorer
2005-2006 Escape Hybrid

LINCOLN:
1997-1998 Mark VIII
1998-2002 Continental
1998-2006 Town Car
2000-2006 LS
1998-2006 Navigator
2002-2003 Blackwood
2003-2005 Aviator

MERCURY:
1998-2006 Grand Marquis
2000 Sable
2004-2005 Sable
2005-2006 Montego
2002-2005 Mountaineer
2005-2006 Mariner
2006 Mariner Hybrid

This article supersedes TSB 04-16-01 to update the vehicle applications and model years.

NOTE FOLLOW THIS TSB PROCEDURE ONLY IF THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC MISFIRE TSBs/SSMs RELEASED FOR THE VEHICLE SYMPTOM BEING EXPERIENCED.

ISSUE
Approximately 50% of coil on plug (COP) coils returned for warranty do not have a problem.

ACTION
The misfiring cylinder must be identified through Self-Test misfire codes or through WDS Power Balance. Rule out base engine problems, rule out fuel problems, and then look at ignition problems (be sure to rule out coil primary circuit issues). Once the above steps have been completed, and the issue is in the secondary part of the ignition system, the oscilloscope procedure outlined in this TSB can isolate the difference between a coil or spark plug problem.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

The optional WDS COP Kit available through Rotunda will provide more accurate diagnosis and help reduce replacement of non-defective parts. The Kit (418-F5528) can be purchased through 1-800-ROTUNDA.

The following material will detail the diagnostic steps on WDS to take the guesswork out of misfire diagnosis using the COP Kit. The following procedure is for cylinder specific misfires and not random misfires. Random misfires have a different root cause and are not covered by this TSB.

Misfire Definition:
A misfiring cylinder is lacking power relative to the other cylinders. The causes for a cylinder specific misfire could be fuel, spark, or mechanical problems.

Perform a thorough visual inspection. If no visible concerns are found use the following WDS tools for misfire diagnosis:

^ Self-test (Check for codes first)

Power Balance (Identify the cylinder of concern)

^ Relative Compression (Rule out a possible mechanical issue)

^ Fuel (Make sure fuel injectors are not restricted)

^ Ignition (Make sure spark plugs and coils are working properly)

^ Oscilloscope (Detailed signal analysis)

NOTE USE THE ENCYCLOPEDIA BUTTON IN THE LOWER LEFT CORNER OF THE SCREEN FOR DETAILED INFORMATION ON THE WDS TOOL BEING DISPLAYED.

If there is a self-test code identifying a particular cylinder then you just need to determine if it is a fuel, ignition, or possibly a mechanical problem. Proceed to Step 2 after running Relative Compression to rule out any mechanical issues. If there is no self-test code and the customer concern is a miss, proceed to Step 1.

Step 1: (Select Toolbox Icon, then Powertrain, then Power Balance)








The cylinder specific miss has to be identified as shown in the example in Figure 2 in order to proceed with the remaining steps. If the miss does not occur at idle (in the bay), try to brake torque the engine. This extra loading should reproduce the miss in the bay. If the miss cannot be reproduced during brake torque, select Relative Compression under Powertrain on WDS before going on a road test to rule out mechanical problems. If Relative Compression shows a problem then the base engine issue must be serviced. If Relative Compression results are good (Figure 3), road test under as many different driving conditions as possible until the miss occurs on Power Balance. Some misses may be very intermiffent so be patient and concentrate on steady load conditions. Once a cylinder dropout is identified proceed to Step 2.

Step 2: (Select Toolbox Icon, then Powertrain, then Fuel System Test)





Run Fuel System Test on WDS to determine if there may be a fuel problem. After completing fuel Pressure/Leakdown test, select Injector flow to isolate a restricted injector as shown in Figure 4. If all the injectors are within specification, proceed to Step 3.

Step 3: (Select Toolbox Icon, then Powertrain, then Ignition System Test)








Run Ignition System Test on WDS to determine if there is an ignition problem. Look at both duration (DUR) and kilovolts (KV) and look for values that standout from the rest as shown in Figure 5 and Figure 6.

NOTE LIVE DISPLAY HAS TO AVERAGE IGNITION VALUES BECAUSE THERE IS TOO MUCH DATA TO DISPLAY. MAKE A CAPTURE TO VIEW EACH ENGINE EVENT WITHOUT AVERAGING. THIS CAN BE HELPFUL WHEN THE PROBLEM IS INTERMITTENT. IF THE MISS IS EXTREMELY INTERMITTENT AND DOES NOT SHOW UP IN IGNITION, PROCEED TO STEP 4.

If either spark duration or peak KV on the Red Probe (Suspect Cylinder) are offset from the values displayed on the Black Probe (Known Good Cylinder) then the problem is in the ignition system. Rule out coil primary circuit issues before proceeding to coil secondary issues such as the spark plug, coil boot, or possibly the coil. Use the WDS Oscilloscope with the COP kit to determine if the issue is the coil or the spark plug.

Step 4: (Select Toolbox, then Oscilloscope)

WARNING SECONDARY IGNITION VOLTAGES ARE VERY HIGH. KEEP HANDS AND TOOLS AWAY FROM THE END OF THE COIL THAT SUPPLIES THE SPARK.





SET-UP:
With the engine off, pull the suspect coil from the cylinder well and turn it upside down so the coil cannot spark to any other surface as shown in Figure 1. Wrap a clean shop cloth around the hard shell of the coil to help keep the coil propped up and stable.





CAUTION THE COIL BOOT CAN BE DAMAGED IF THE COIL SPARKS TO ANOTHER SURFACE DURING THIS PROCEDURE.

Keep the coil connected to the harness and leave the WDS COP clip attached to the coil. Route the coil clip wire and cable away from the coil being tested as well as other coils to avoid noise interference. Disconnect the injector of the cylinder being tested so raw fuel is not washing the cylinder. This is a stress test for the coil. The type of waveform displayed on the oscilloscope will show whether a coil or the plug is the problem if all previous steps have been followed. Keep hands and tools away from the end of the coil that supplies the spark.

COP Stress Test Procedure:











Go to the Oscilloscope Tool and select Channel 3, then select Auto, then select COP_STRESS_TEST_RED. This pre-configured setting will zoom-in on the peak firing of the coil being tested. Start the engine and be sure the coil is not sparking to any surface. If the coil is sparking to other surfaces, turn the engine off immediately and readjust the coil so it cannot spark to any other surface. Restart the engine and touch the Red Man icon to start the oscilloscope. All settings are pre-configured and no adjustments are necessary. Compare the waveform you get with the examples provided in Figures 7, 8, and 9). Figure 7 is a good waveform. If your waveform is similar to Figure 7 the coil is working correctly. Suspect the spark plug.

Figure 8 and Figure 9 are examples of problem coils. Replace the coil if the waveform is similar to Figures 8 or 9. The coil is causing the misfire when the peak firing appears like those shown in Figures 8 and 9. Notice the difference in the peak-firing signal when compared to the good peak signal in Figure 7.

Figure 9 shows a more dramatic fault in the peak failure.

Most root causes of misfire issues can be identified quickly using the steps outlined above. Some misfire issues can be difficult making the oscilloscope an important part of your diagnostic toolbox.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: 05-13-4

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

one last quick thing, if I try to isolate one by one either injector or coil, will it send a trouble code and check engine light each time.

 

does this miss have something to do with the valve tap? oil pressure is fine except I do know the Right rear high pressure oil port head seal has a fine leak

Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

THe noise could have something to do with the valve tap. Just be sure you have compression on that cylinder that is making noise.

 

If you pull the connectors one at a time, it might set a fault code but it might not set a light right away. If it does, you can always disconnect the battery to clear the codes.

AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 21843
Experience: ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
AMEDEE and 5 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
thank you
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Thanks for the accept!

 

Let me know if you have any more questions!

JustAnswer in the News:

 
 
 
Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.
 
 
 

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • AlvinC answered a question about my Ford truck that only someone with an in-depth knowledge of his subject would have known what was going on. Rich D USA
< Last | Next >
  • AlvinC answered a question about my Ford truck that only someone with an in-depth knowledge of his subject would have known what was going on. Rich D USA
  • Because of your expertise, you armed me with enough ammunition to win the battle with the dealer. They are installing a fuel filter and fuel pump at no charge to me. Molly USA
  • I needed help with my car on Saturday morning....got a response in 5 minutes, and it was the perfect solution. Thanks again to your service. Jason V. Kirkland, WA
  • I do know, after going though this with JustAnswer, that I can somewhat trust my mechanic but I will always contact you prior to going there. BR New Jersey
  • I would (and have) recommend your site to others I was quite satisfied with the quality of the information received, the professional with whom I interacted, and the quick response time. Thanks, and be sure that I'll be back whenever I need a question answered in a hurry. Stephanie P Elm City, NC
  • used your service this weekend with "Trecers" help. thank you ,thank you, thank you. replaced an A/C fan motor. Local Auto Zone had part. $15.00 "tracer" fee and $40.00 for parts, I saved several hundreds of dollers at a shop. i will recommend you and use you in the future. David L. Richmond, TX
  • 9 dollars, 2 hours of my time, and I drove away. Your diagnosis was right on the mark. Thank you so much. Phil Marysville, CA
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Ron

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    20942
    23 years with Ford specializing in drivability and electrical and AC. Ford certs and ASE Certs
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/FO/fordguy4u/2011-12-17_222940_HPIM1257.64x64.JPG Ron's Avatar

    Ron

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    20942
    23 years with Ford specializing in drivability and electrical and AC. Ford certs and ASE Certs
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MU/muddyford/2012-6-13_1204_1.64x64.png Chris (aka- Moose)'s Avatar

    Chris (aka- Moose)

    Ford Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    22382
    16 years experience with Ford.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/JM/jmcdo28/2012-2-23_01655_resized.64x64.jpg John Mc's Avatar

    John Mc

    Ford Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    5493
    19 years Ford Lincoln Mercury experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/wmarti7/2009-4-18_04332_Avatar.jpg Chuck's Avatar

    Chuck

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1684
    33 Years Experience,Ford Senior Master,ASE Master,L1 Advanced Engine Performance
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/CR/crzydrvr00/2013-11-3_12123_246347.64x64.jpg Richard's Avatar

    Richard

    ASE Certified Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    1518
    12 years at a Ford Lincoln/Mercury and Jaguar dealer as a technician and shop foreman.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BA/baddad1/2014-4-1_23659_avatar.64x64.jpg Mike V.'s Avatar

    Mike V.

    Auto Service Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    789
    25 years experience on all makes and models, Licensed NYS Inspector.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/lostrider/2009-9-26_23144_php4VNWAA_c1PM1.jpg lostrider's Avatar

    lostrider

    Ford Technician

    Satisfied Customers:

    2940
    ASE Master Technician, Ford Senior Master Technician,Diesel certified, ASE Master, 22 yrs FORD exp.