Kenny Z here,I hope I can help you out.
It sounds like you are on the right track.Just so you know the compressor normally runs in the defrost and floor/defrost positions.It should be off in the floor position.I am assuming this is the mode where it is staying on.To save time I will also assume it has automatic climate control and will give you some self tests you can do on the control head.If it has manual climate control let me know and we can proceed down that path.The system should still be able to blow hot air even with the compressor running.Take a look at this and also verify it is on in the floor mode and let me know what you come up with.It sounds like you might have a blend door issue.
Electronic Automatic Temperature Control Module Self-Test
If the compressor won't shut off in floor mode,lets address that first.We know there is a problem there for sure and it might cure the no heat problem or lead us to it.Ok, so it has a manual climate control system.Take a look at this diagram, access the control so you can get to the wiring on the back of the mode switch.check for power on the violet wire in the floor mode.you can see in the diagram which modes let current flow on the violet wire and which do not.panel,off and floor should have no power on the violet wire.Let me know what you find.
You can accept anytime,you might want to wait to see how involved we get and you can adjust the price if you feel 15 is not enough for the amount of time spent to find the problem on my end.The question remains open after accepting and we can still post on this same blog.Heres the instructions to remove the control head.No need to buy a manual,I will get you what you need as we move along.
Are both the heater hoses hot to the touch?? I know you said the outlet is slightly cooler which is OK I just want to know if the hoses at the core are nice and hot.
This is a hard question to answer because of the subjectivity.
Ok so I went out and let the ford run and also let my dodge run until both were warm. My dodge is newer (2004) and when I touch both hoses they are almost the same temp, very hot. I couldnt leave my hand on them for but a second. On the ford they are cooler. I can leave my hand on the inlet hose for 5-10 seconds. the outlet hose is warm but cooler. On the outlet hose while my hand gets hot, I could probably leave it on it without getting burned.
On the ford both hoses are close in temp but neither are as hot as on my dodge.
Also I forgot to mention The expedition has the vents in the back passenger area with its own controls also so I think the truck has 2 heater cores, not sure. But the air coming our of the back vents is not hot either.
So what do you think.
With the engine fully warmed up the inlet hose should be too hot to hold on to for more then a second or two.At this point we need to get accurate coolant temp readings either with an infrared thermometer or with a scan tool that can monitor data steam pid information for the coolant temp sensor. The guage is not accurate enough to know the actual temperature of the coolant.In your first post you said the thermostat is operating properly.How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Thats how my dodge is, i couldnt hold onto it at all, but the ford is cooler and I can hold on to it.
For the thermostat, I started the car when it was cold and monitored the top radiator hose for heat and water flow by touch. I didnt feel any water release into the top hose until the car temp gauge was at normal operating temp. Now I am guessing at what normal temp is for this vehicle. My neighbor didnt really know where the temp gauge should read. Right now it is reading a constant half way between cold and hot. But I have no idea what the actuall temp is. When I looked in the reserve coolant tank the coolant is very dark, almost black looking, it probably has never been changed. I dont know if this could be contributing to the problem or not.
For the coolant temp reading. I dont have a scangauge or an infrared themometer. What are my options on this, I may be able to find a cooking thermometer that I could try to use, how should I procede.
We need to find what the temp is,,, somehow. That is the next logical step and we can't really proceed until we have that info.If the thermostat is not closing enough it will still initially warm the upper hose after it opens and act very normal.Many times when they stick the temp will be 150 - 170 and all will appear normal including the guage.But not hot enough for sufficient heat output from the core.It sounds like it could use a flush,but having the temp info is crucial at this point.Maybe you can run it by a shop and they will hook up thier scanner for cheap to see the temp??
Ok, so I found an infrared thermometer down at mieneke that they use to check cat converters so I assume it is pretty accurate. I took temps in 3 places for you by pointing the laser at the hoses from about 1 foot away from the hose.
142 Top radiator hose
140 Inlet heater hose at the firewall
127 outlet heater hose at the firewall
I found out from Autozone that the thermostat should be a 195.
This looks like the problem to me but I wasnt sure how much the hoses would vary the readings. What do you think?
Thanks again Jerry
Replace the thermostat and flush the coolant and you should be good to go....that is way to cold of a reading even reading the hoses.
I really appreciate your help. I would never have thought that it was the thermostat because the engine was showing warm on the gauge. But comparing the hoses to my dodge they are not near as hot.
I need to talk to my neigbor, but I am going to try and get her to give you a bonus. Should If I accept your help now for the 15, will I be able to come back later and give you a bonus if she says it is ok, or should I still wait until I talk to her and then do it all at once.
I would go ahead and wait, the question will stay open for 24 hours without activity.
Thanks again Ken, I flushed out the radiator and replaced the thermostat and its good to go. The heat coming out of the vents is about 120 degrees so my neighbor is really happy. Thanks again for all of your help
Hey, just accepted your offer and added a 15.00 bonus, but when I received an email from justanswer it showed the payment amount as only 15.00 instead of 30.00. I thought that it would automatically charge me 15.00 plus the 15 bonus. Let me know how much you get of you dont mind.
The $30 showed up. Thanks for your generosity!
Ken, My neighbor came back to me and the truck is still not getting hot enough. I checked it the other noght when the temp was about 50 and the heat is way to cool. I looked at it today and still the temp coming out of the vents is 107 at its hottest. So I took the truck down to midas and used their infrared thermometer again. With the truck fully warmed up and the heat on high the temps were as follows:
inlet heater hose:148
outlet heater hose: 129
top radiator hose: 126
These numbers are about the same as before I changed the thermostat. I am at a loss. I would be happy to pay another 15.00 for your time if you have any suggestions.
What brand stat did you put in it?
The cooling system might need to be drained and filled with an airlift, it might have an air pocket, especially if it warms up when you rev it up.
The fan clutch is not siezed is it?
Was it ok for a while after you replaced it?
Do the temp testing on metal components like the radiator,cylinder head or thermostat housing..not the rubber
Did you flush it good also?
The stat is a duralast 195 degrees
After I first replaced the stat I was getting hotter air, but I did have to rev the engine up to about 2500 to get the hotter air.
I dont think the fan clutch is siezed. I can hear and see it kicking in and out.
Not sure if it was ok or not after I fixed. I though it was, but the day I changed the thermostat it was about 75 degrees. When I reved the engine to about 2500 the air was hotter than before I fixed it.
The hoses are a little warmer feeling than before I changed the thermostat, but not near as hot as my dodge.
I think I flushed it really good, I used the prestone flush chemical and flushed it out until only clear water cam out of the radiator drain. It took me probably 2 to 3 hours to get it completely flushed out.
What do you think?
It will probably be tomorrow before I can Get the temp readings you asked for. I did take out the thermostat. I put it in a pan of water on my stove and brought it to a biol monitoring the temp with a digital cooking thermomether. It did not open until right at 195. So if this is an accurate way to check the thermostat it is working properly. What do you think? Also is there anything else I can check tonight before I get you those temp readings you asked for?
I have not run into anything else on these,If the stat closes there is not much left other than air pockets,stat installed backwards, or fan clutch fully engaged all the time.
Any chance it could be the heater core?
Maybe the valves under the dash that direct the flow of water and air(I really dont know how this part of the system works so I am grasping at straws here).
If it does have an air pocket in the system how do you fix that?
If the engine temp is hot enough then I would flow test the core.Water flow in the core is continuous.Air flow could be a factor,but I would not go there until we know there is HOT coolant thru the core.
Air pockets are removed by draining the system and vacuuming it with the air lift tool. It puts the system into a deep vacuum and the coolant is drawn in under vacuum.
check it out here
Ken, so I got the heater hoses off the core and started flushing it with my water hose. I am getting intermittent flow. It flows real slow, just more than a dribble, and then I get a burst of water (with what looks like rust flakes) coming out, and then back to a dribble. I have flushed it for about thirty minutes and it seems to be getting a little better.
There should be a continous flow of water right?
If I keep at it, is there a chance that I will be able to get it cleaned out enough to work properly?
I also bought a book and read about changing the heater core if it comes to that. In the book it states that you have to get the A/C system drained and unhook the evaporator lines at the firewall in order to remove the heater core. Is that correct? I cant understand why you would have to unhook A/C lines just to replace the heater core.
Thanks as always, Jerry
Maybe you could fill the core with flush agent and let it soak overnight and then continue trying to flush it.There should be a steady flow.
You don't have to open the a/c.Here is the ford procedures.