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AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 21866
Experience:  ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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i have a 1983 ford f350 with a 460 , have no spark from the

Customer Question

i have a 1983 ford f350 with a 460 , have no spark from the coil
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Greetings! First thing to do is check to see if the coil has power with the key in the on position. You can use a test light or a voltmeter.

 

Next step would be to see if its getting a ground signal trigger. This is done with a test light. But only you would hook it up backwards. Hook the alligator clip of the test light and hook it to battery positive, and take the tip of the test light and touch it the signal wire of the coil. (If you need a diagram let me know). The test light should blink when cranking over the engine if its getting a signal. Good luck!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
the signal wire of the coil is that also the tach wire
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
either that wire or they use another wire. either way, we must have a ground signal trigger while cranking.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
im actually getting 12 volts at both the positive side and ground side of the coil
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Are you testing this while cranking?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes ground side flickers slightly while cranking
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
If you are on the right wire, I would say you have a bad coil!
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well to determine that ...the wire i should be testing is the wire that is not fed 12 volts
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

I found a TSB for this problem.

 

87ford20
NO START - EEC IV - "E" COIL
Article No. 87-20-18FORD: 1983-86 LTD 1983-87 ESCORT, EXP, MUSTANG, THUNDERBIRD, CROWN VICTORIA 1984-87 TEMPO 1986-87 TAURUS

LINCOLN-MERCURY: 1983 LN7
1983-86 MARQUIS 1983-87 LYNX, COUGAR, GRAND MARQUIS, MARK VII, CONTINENTAL, LINCOLN TOWN CAR
1984-87 TOPAZ 1986-87 SABLE

LIGHT TRUCK: 1983-87 RANGER, E-SERIES, F-SERIES, BRONCO 1984-87 BRONCO II 1986-87 AEROSTAR
This article is being republished in its entirety to expand the model year coverage.

ISSUE: The primary winding of the E-core ignition coil may be damaged if the wire harness containing the tachometer circuit has a short to ground.

ACTION: Before replacing the E-core ignition coil, perform the following diagnostic procedure.

1. Turn ignition to "ON" position.

2. Measure and record battery voltage.

 

 

Measure and record voltage between negative terminal and coil and battery ground post as shown, Figure 50.
4. If the differencce in readings is greater than 1.0 volt, check tachometer circuit for a potential short to ground.

5. If a short is present, make necessary wire harness repair.

6. Replace ignition coil as required.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: Supersedes 84-14-18, 84-14-18-S, 85-16-13, 86-2-21
WARRANTY STATUS: "INFORMATION ONLY"

 

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
the vehicle doesnt have an e-core coil
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Here is another one for this problem.

 

Article No. 86-2-20

IGNITION SYSTEM - TFI - WEAK OR NO SPARK - DIAGNOSTIC TIP

FORD 1982-86 ESCORT, EXP; 1983-86 THUNDERBIRD, LTD, CROWN VICTORIA, MUSTANG; 1984-86 TEMPO; 1986 TAURUS

LINCOLN-MERCURY 1982-83 LN7; 1982-86 LYNX; 1983-86 COUGAR, MERCURY, GRAND MARQUIS, CONTINENTAL, MARK VII, LINCOLN; 1984-86 TOPAZ; 1986 SABLE

LIGHT TRUCK 1983-86 EAND F-SERIES, RANGER, BRONCO; 1984-86 BRONCO II; 1986 AEROSTAR

CALIBRATIONS: All with TFI Systems

If the TFI module fails and causes a short to ground, the primary winding of the ignition coil can be damaged. The TFI diagnostic procedure published in the Shop Manual will not identify this condition.

When servicing a weak or no spark condition, perform the following:

1. Check for spark using the procedures found in the Manual Information, Computerized Engine, Quick Test Section, Test 1.

2. If there is no spark, test the coil primary resistance using Rotunda digital volt-ohmmeter 007-00001, as shown.

3. If the coil primary resistance is O.K., continue with the diagnostic procedure in Test 1.

4. If the coil primary resistance is not O.K., replace the coil and recheck for weak or no spark. If the spark is now O.K., the problem is resolved.

5. If the spark is still NOT O.K., continue with normal diagnostic procedure in Test 1.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: None
WARRANTY STATUS: "INFORMATION ONLY"

Wiring Harness

TFI-IV

Part 2

Test 5

TEST EQUIPMENT: VOM, STRAIGHT PIN




TEST PROCEDURE

1. Separate wiring harness connector from ignition module. Inspect for dirt, corrosion, and damage.

NOTE: PUSH connector tabs to separate.

2. Disconnect wire at S terminal of starter relay.
3. Attach negative (-) VOM, Rotunda Number 007-00001, lead to distributor base.
4. Measure battery voltage.
5. Following table below, measure connector terminal voltage by attaching VOM to small straight pin inserted into connector terminal and turning ignition switch to position shown.

CAUTION: Do not allow straight pin to contact electrical ground.

CONNECTOR IGNITION SWITCH
TERMINAL WIRE/CIRCUIT TEST POSITION

#2 TO IGNITION RUN
COIL (-) TERMINAL

#3 RUN CIRCUIT RUN AND START

#4 START CIRCUIT START

6. Turn ignition switch to Off position.
7. Remove straight pin.
8. Reconnect wire to S terminal of starter relay.

TEST RESULT TEST RESOLUTION

90 percent of ^ Test result OK.
battery ^ Go to Part 2, Test 6.

voltage minimum

Less than 90 ^ Inspect for faults in wiring
percent of harness and connectors.
battery ^ Refer to vehicle wiring
voltage diagram for appropriate
circuit.
^ Damaged or worn ignition switch, Refer to Shop Manual, Group 33.

Primary Circuit Continuity

TFI-IV

Part 2

Test 8

TEST EQUIPMENT: VOM, STRAIGHT PIN




TEST PROCEDURE

1. Separate wiring harness connector from ignition module. Inspect for dirt, corrosion, and damage.NOTE: PUSH connector tabs to separate.


2. Attach negative (-) VOM, Rotunda Number 007-00001, lead to distributor base.
3. Measure battery voltage.
4. Attach VOM to small straight pin inserted into connector terminal No. 2.

CAUTION: Do not allow straight pin to contact electrical ground.


5. Turn ignition switch to Run position and measure terminal No. 2 voltage.
6. Turn ignition switch to Off position.
7. Remove straight pin.

TEST RESULT TEST RESOLUTION

90 percent of ^ Go to Part 2, Test 5.

battery voltage minimum

Less than 90 ^ Go to Part 2, Test 9.
percent of battery voltage

Ignition Coil Primary Resistance

TFI-IV

Part 2

Test 3

TEST EQUIPMENT: VOM




TEST PROCEDURE

1. Turn ignition switch to Off.
2. Disconnect ignition coil connector. Inspect for dirt, corrosion, and damage.
3. Measure resistance from positive (+) to negative (-) terminal of ignition coil, using Rotunda digital volt-ohmmeter 007-00001.

TEST RESULT TEST RESOLUTION

0.3 to 1.0 ^ Test result OK.
ohm ^ Go to Test 4.

Less than ^ Replace ignition coil.
0.3 ohm or greater than 1.0 ohm

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ive tested the resistance between the positive and negative side of the coil and the resistance is within spec...
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
What color wire are you testing for the ground signal trigger?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i believe it is green im not near the vehicle right now
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
You are going to want to be on the dark green and yellow wire.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok test light from positive battery terminal to dark green and yellow wire on the coil and crank the engine , light should flash or flicker as i crank the engine
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
I believe it should flash. We want to see at least a flicker
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
im going to run and check that hopefully it flickers
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Sounds good!

 

Let me know!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok checked it ... while cranking light goes out with no flickering ...koeo light is out as well
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

If we are checking it right, sounds like there is no ground signal trigger to the coil.

 

If the pick up was replaced, the only think left would be the module provided the wiring is ok.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i replaced the module as well ...the last expert stated that 99.9% of the time its the module ...the only thing that i havent replaced was the condensor and the reluctor wheel
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Well if we had a lab scope, we could see the signal from the pick up sensor.

 

But I am willing to bet, you don't have a lab scope, I would just recommend to use a voltmeter.

 

If all checks out, We are going to need to check into the wiring that goes to the module

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
no lab scope but i do have a voltmeter..do i disconnect the pick up coil and crank the engine while measuring resistance between the orange and purple wires
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

You are close. Disconnect the wires and measure AC voltage while cranking.

 

Or you can measure resistance without cranking it over.

 

Procedure


Disconnect distributor electrical connector. Inspect connections for dirt or corrosion.
Using a suitable ohmmeter, measure resistance across orange and purple wires in distributor connector.
If readings obtained are within 400---1000 ohms, circuit is satisfactory. If readings are less than 400 or more than 1000 ohms, replace stator assembly.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i already measured the ohms across the orange and purple and it was about 700 ohms....i guess this leaves me with checking the wiring
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

I would just check the AC voltage from this sensor while cranking.

 

If that checks out good, then we will look closely at the module wiring. Inputs and outputs.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
what amount of voltage will i be looking for
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

At least about 300 Milli Volts

 

The Ignition Module shuts off the primary circuit each time it receives a pulse from the magnetic pick-up Fig. 9 . A timing circuit in the ignition module turns the primary current back on after a short period of time. High voltage is created each time the magnetic field is built up and collapsed. The red ignition module wire provides operating voltage for the module's electronic components in the Run mode. The white module wire and start bypass provide increased voltage for the module and coil during Start mode.

Dura Spark II systems with UIM (Universal Ignition Module) Fig. 10 can respond to another control signal from either an Ignition Barometric Pressure Switch, Ignition Timing Vacuum Switch, or the Microprocessor Control Unit (MCU), depending on the engine calibration. Responding to this second signal, the UIM provides additional spark timing control for certain operating conditions by shutting off the ignition coil current flow at a different time than with just the distributor pick-up signal.

For proper ignition module identification refer to Fig. 1. The modules are not interchangeable, Dura Spark II has 6 wire connector while Dura Spark III has a 5 wire connector.

 

graphic

graphic

graphic

 

graphic

graphic

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
according to the diagram the truck uses duraspark II
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok..

 

How many powers do we have going into the module when cranking?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
from what ive found its 2 red and white wire depending on key position and the rest are signal wires and grounds ....but i may be wrong
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

You are correct!

 

Is this what we have on the vehicle?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes but im going to have to double check in the morning its too late to drive over to the vehicle
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Thats ok... just let me know whenever you find out.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
tested the vehicle found some info on duraspark 2 tested the red and white wires that power the module ...found that reference voltage is 12 volts and during cranking drops to 8 volts tested this across the ignition all the way back to the lead off of the altenator where i get the voltage drop to 8 volts as well i this all do to low voltage
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Did you look at the diagrams I sent you. The wires come from the ignition switch
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i tested at the igniton switch as well and was getting the same reading there...i traced the wires from the ignition through the dashboard through the fire wall on the passenger side and up to the rear of the battery and down to the altenator and got the same readings
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Is there a solid red wire going into the module?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes and the white as well
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Do we have 12 volts on this red wire with the key on?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
correct
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Ok... do we have 12 volts on the white wire while cranking?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
it drops to 8 - 9 volts during cranking
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
This wire goes back to the ignition switch. It is a red and light blue wire coming out of the ignition switch. How many volts do we have there when cranking?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
same drops to 8-9 volts
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Wow! I think you might have a bad ignition switch. As long as you have 12 volts going in while cranking, my guess is the switch is bad!

 

You can try applying full battery voltage to the white wire at the module while cranking only, and see if you get spark.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well i tested further back along the large yellow wire that feeds the ignition switch and get the same voltage readings during cranking
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
What is battery voltage while cranking?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
8 volts with either a vehicle hooked with jumper cables or a battery charger on
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Alright... lets move on.

 

SO we dont have a trigger on the dark green wire coming out of the module while cranking... correct?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
no trigger
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Have we tested for the pick up signal right at the module?

 

What kind of AC signal are we getting while cranking at the module?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
its was the first thing that i had done this morning so if i can remember correctly it was either .200 or 2.00
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
SO about 200 Milivolts? Did you replace this sensor in the distributor?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes that was replaced
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

I was just going off of the top of my head when I said that I think it should be at least 200 Milli volts when cranking. I think it should even be a bit more. But if it was replaced with a new one, then we should be good to go.

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
so im getting the signal into the module but not out is this due to low voltage
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

I think thats the only thing that it could be.

 

You said you have replaced the module with a known good one... correct?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yes that is correct so i can put direct battery voltage to the white wire and see where that gets me
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Well only do this while cranking
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok the red wires voltage also dropped during cranking is it safe to do the same with that
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Yes
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok well ill give it a try tomorrow hopefully i get something out of this
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok..

 

If this does not work, I think you might have a bad new module. We have gone over everything!

 

The only thing left would be a wiring issue.

 

Also, try disconnecting the coil and see if you get a trigger on that wire while cranking. Just a thought.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
i did try disconnecting the coil and testing for a trigger and there was nothing
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Ok

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
could a bad connection from the altenator cause such a problem
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
I don't see how it could.

According to the diagram, the alternator should have no effect on the module.

But if something extremely weird is going on, you can try and disconnect it and see if that helps.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well i get the voltage drop all the way back to the altenator so thats whats got me looking towards that
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
I found a tsb that might help you. I am not sure if you are aware of this,but I thought I would bring it to your attention.

Article No. 86-2-20

IGNITION SYSTEM - TFI - WEAK OR NO SPARK - DIAGNOSTIC TIP

FORD 1982-86 ESCORT, EXP; 1983-86 THUNDERBIRD, LTD, CROWN VICTORIA, MUSTANG; 1984-86 TEMPO; 1986 TAURUS

LINCOLN-MERCURY 1982-83 LN7; 1982-86 LYNX; 1983-86 COUGAR, MERCURY, GRAND MARQUIS, CONTINENTAL, MARK VII, LINCOLN; 1984-86 TOPAZ; 1986 SABLE

LIGHT TRUCK 1983-86 EAND F-SERIES, RANGER, BRONCO; 1984-86 BRONCO II; 1986 AEROSTAR

CALIBRATIONS: All with TFI Systems


If the TFI module fails and causes a short to ground, the primary winding of the ignition coil can be damaged. The TFI diagnostic procedure published in the Shop Manual will not identify this condition.

When servicing a weak or no spark condition, perform the following:

1. Check for spark using the procedures found in the Manual Information, Computerized Engine, Quick Test Section, Test 1.

2. If there is no spark, test the coil primary resistance using Rotunda digital volt-ohmmeter 007-00001, as shown.

3. If the coil primary resistance is O.K., continue with the diagnostic procedure in Test 1.

4. If the coil primary resistance is not O.K., replace the coil and recheck for weak or no spark. If the spark is now O.K., the problem is resolved.

5. If the spark is still NOT O.K., continue with normal diagnostic procedure in Test 1.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: None
WARRANTY STATUS: "INFORMATION ONLY"


Wiring Harness

TFI-IV

Part 2

Test 5

TEST EQUIPMENT: VOM, STRAIGHT PIN

graphic




TEST PROCEDURE

1. Separate wiring harness connector from ignition module. Inspect for dirt, corrosion, and damage.

NOTE: PUSH connector tabs to separate.

2. Disconnect wire at S terminal of starter relay.
3. Attach negative (-) VOM, Rotunda Number 007-00001, lead to distributor base.
4. Measure battery voltage.
5. Following table below, measure connector terminal voltage by attaching VOM to small straight pin inserted into connector terminal and turning ignition switch to position shown.

CAUTION: Do not allow straight pin to contact electrical ground.



CONNECTOR IGNITION SWITCH
TERMINAL WIRE/CIRCUIT TEST POSITION

#2 TO IGNITION RUN
COIL (-) TERMINAL

#3 RUN CIRCUIT RUN AND START

#4 START CIRCUIT START

6. Turn ignition switch to Off position.
7. Remove straight pin.
8. Reconnect wire to S terminal of starter relay.

TEST RESULT TEST RESOLUTION

90 percent of ^ Test result OK.
battery ^ Go to Part 2, Test 6.

voltage minimum

Less than 90 ^ Inspect for faults in wiring
percent of harness and connectors.
battery ^ Refer to vehicle wiring
voltage diagram for appropriate
circuit.
^ Damaged or worn ignition switch, Refer to Shop Manual, Group 33.

Primary Circuit Continuity

TFI-IV

Part 2

Test 8

TEST EQUIPMENT: VOM, STRAIGHT PIN

graphic




TEST PROCEDURE

1. Separate wiring harness connector from ignition module. Inspect for dirt, corrosion, and damage.NOTE: PUSH connector tabs to separate.


2. Attach negative (-) VOM, Rotunda Number 007-00001, lead to distributor base.
3. Measure battery voltage.
4. Attach VOM to small straight pin inserted into connector terminal No. 2.

CAUTION: Do not allow straight pin to contact electrical ground.


5. Turn ignition switch to Run position and measure terminal No. 2 voltage.
6. Turn ignition switch to Off position.
7. Remove straight pin.

TEST RESULT TEST RESOLUTION

90 percent of ^ Go to Part 2, Test 5.

battery voltage minimum

Less than 90 ^ Go to Part 2, Test 9.
percent of battery voltage

Ignition Coil Primary Resistance

TFI-IV

Part 2

Test 3

TEST EQUIPMENT: VOM

graphic




TEST PROCEDURE

1. Turn ignition switch to Off.
2. Disconnect ignition coil connector. Inspect for dirt, corrosion, and damage.
3. Measure resistance from positive (+) to negative (-) terminal of ignition coil, using Rotunda digital volt-ohmmeter 007-00001.

TEST RESULT TEST RESOLUTION

0.3 to 1.0 ^ Test result OK.
ohm ^ Go to Test 4.

Less than ^ Replace ignition coil.
0.3 ohm or greater than 1.0 ohm
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ive pretty much done those tests already ...i do get the idea that the module might be ba but the whole low voltage while cranking is what gets me think there's a problem somewhere else in the system
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Ok... lets recap.

Where do we have low voltage? Is this just when cranking?

What is battery voltage when cranking?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
drops to about 10 volts at the module , and at the ignition , and at the battery
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Well with all this cranking you are doing, the battery most likely might be getting weak. 10 volts when cranking (from the battery) is not too bad. I think we are ok
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok so getting no signal out of the module is pointing to module then if the module is getting the signal from the pick up coil but not putting it back out
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
You got it!
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well im going to see if i can get another one and ill get back to you
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
SOunds good!
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok well it turns out that the pick is not working properly ...so that makes the original one broken and the one i replaced with the same readings ....so i replaced the whole distributor and im getting the same readings out of that as well
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
So is it running?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
nope are aftermarket coil pick ups known for being bad ....the tests say to measure resistance between the orange and purple wires to get 400-800 ohms im getting .612 K ohms and as well as testing the resistance between the orange and ground / purple and ground to get 70,000 ohms or (7 K ohms) and i get nothing at all there
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

I thought we decided to replace the module again.

 

The ohm reading you are getting is good. .612 is 600 ohms.

 

But measuring resistance on this sensor is kinda like placing a voltmeter on a battery and getting a good reading and saying the battery is good. It does not work this way. The sensor needs to be put under a load. To me, ohm tests are useless.

 

Lets go ahead and get a different module in there.

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
exchanged the module as well ...even replaced the relay for the module ....while cranking and with the volt meter set to ac and connected across the orange and purple wires i get a reading of .200 to .400
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

That reading is good!

 

Are we sure this reading is getting to the module? Are you taking the reading right at the module with everything hooked up?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
yea getting them up too the module as well had the harness apart to check for damaged wires
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
The only wire that we did not talk about at the module was the black and light green wire. According to the diagram, it goes to the tach but also goes to the distributor where it gets grounded. Double check to make sure this wire has a ground coming from the distributor
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
the only wires that go to the distributor are the black that gets grounded inside the distributor and the orange and purple wires that go to the pick up
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Isnt there one more wire that goes into the module that we have not talked about? Look at the diagram.
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Yeah... that black wire. Check this wire to see if its grounded.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
the black and light green wire that comes from the tach .......and the dark green and yellow dotted wire that leads to the tach ....only thing is that the vehicle doesnt have a tach
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Is this wire grounded?

 

According to the diagram, that one last wire from the distributor to the module needs to be grounded. I believe the module itself needs to needs to be grounded. Maybe this is it! The module cannot ground the coil because it does not have a ground itself!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well i tried that yesterday by splicing a ground into the system
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
On which wire?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
black
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

And this did not work?

 

Boy... we covered just about everything. I am starting to think maybe we have the wrong module on the vehicle.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well i know that the module that was in the vehicle when it was running ....has a blue wire retainer indicating that its a duraspark 2 ...both of the modules that ive replaced that one with have had the same clip
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Something is just not adding up. Maybe a wiring issue?

 

I honestly have tried my best but do not know where to go from here. I think we are just overlooking something simple.

 

I am going to have to leave this question open for other experts. Good luck!

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
heres an idea what if i reversed the purple and orange wires
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Sure... you can try that. I dont see why it would hurt.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well had the original module tested and it works ...truck doesnt start but the module passed
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
And we are still getting no singal at all to the coil... correct? Are we sure this coil it good?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
no signal at the coil .....the black and green wires that split from the module and go thru the fire wall ....they go to the tach ????
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Yes... according to the diagram it goes to the tach.

 

Can you tell me how you are testing for this signal to the coil?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
test light clipped to positive side of battery with test light to the tach side of the coil
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
DO you have a low impedance light?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
just a standard test light from mac tools
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Have we tried another coil?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
but wouldnt there be a signal even if the coil was bad
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Yes! there should! This ignition system could be a completely different system that I am used to dealing with. Maybe there is such a minor trigger coming from the module to the coil that we cant even see. Maybe on this type of ignition system, a regular conventional test light will not work to check the signal to the coil.

 

I am sure a lab scope would work. But I am pretty sure you do not have one handy...correct? So with that said, I believe we covered everything else that we should have. The distributor signal powers and grounds going to the module... the only thing that is left would the the coil. Unless you got the power wires to the module mixed up? Maybe the one power wire goes were the other should go and vice versa.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
the coil actually has a clip on connector for the battery side and trigger side ....impossible to reverse
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
NO... I am talking about the two power wires that go to the module. One is supposed to be hot in crank and the other hot just when the key is in the on position. Maybe those two wires should are mixed up?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
nope they are getting the correct voltage at the correct time
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
And they are not switched?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
nope
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.
Well if the coil is good, and apparently the module is good, the only thing left would be wiring or a wrong module. Even if the module is off the vehicle, it still should fire a signal to the coil like it does when its being tested off the vehicle. Is there any way to test the inputs to the module when they are actually doing the tests on it? This way, we could compare the inputs to the ones we have and maybe we can figure out what we are missing.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
is there somewhere to get a replacement harness...
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Sure... there are lots of places. You will have to call around to places in your local area.

 

Being such an old vehicle, you might be better off looking in junk yards for the harness.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
ok the two wires that lead to the tach ...the blck and green ...should i be getting a ground there while the key is off....or while the key is on
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

TO be honest with you, I am not too sure.

 

But I do know, that the tach gets the same singal that goes to the coil. The ground signal trigger while cranking.

 

Why? What do you have on these two wires?

 

 

Customer: replied 5 years ago.
well the tach wire is the wire im checking for the ground signal so if theres a short thats affecting this wire it wouldnt get the signal through to fire ....well im going to back probe all these leads while cranking and get readings ....i went and got my dmm and test leads that can actually back probe with i was using a crappy one ....i failed to mention i am a tech just not with a ton of experience especially with older systems ...
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
tach wire was had a break in it right off the terminal .....insulation was fine actual wire was corroded away....truck cranks and back fires im supposing timing is off ....any info on that
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

Hello!

 

If the timing was off, then we would have spark, but just at the wrong time.

 

But from what you have been telling me, there is spark because of a lack of signal from the module. Therefore we would not have any spark.

AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 21866
Experience: ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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Customer: replied 5 years ago.
im getting spark now .....i reapaired the broken wire at the tach side of the coil ...now it cranks and pops ...im supposing that when replacing the distributor i through the timing out ....i was wondering if you had info on this specific motor for setting ignition timing ...

when this problem first arose it was some what intermitent ....the truck back fired so bad at one point it blew the muffler up ....literally it was an oval muffler now it is round in the middle ...vehicle finally started after about an hour of trying to crank it and puller start it ...
Expert:  AMEDEE replied 5 years ago.

EXCELLENT!

 

Thanks for the accept!

 

I do have a few pictures available. for the ignition timing.

 

If you think that the distributor might be in wrong, we will just have to time it just like ever other motor out there. Pull off the distributor cap and see where the rotor is positioned. Pull out the number one spark plug and put the piston at tdc. If the rotor is not close to pointing to cylinder one on the distributor cap, then the distributor will have to be pulled back out and reset correctly.

 

graphic

graphic

 

 

 

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