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HDGENE
HDGENE, Ford Senior Master/Diesel/Trans
Category: Ford
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Experience:  23 years Auto experience, Ford ,GM, Chrysler, Asian & European
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2005 ford: it cranks but wont start..scan tool..fuses

Customer Question

I have a 2005 ford super duty diesel. It quit running on the interstate and now it cranks but won't start. No communication with scan tool and all fuses are good. Could it be the ECM?
Submitted: 7 years ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
Does the check engine light come on with the key on and go out when cranking?
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
I think so. I don't have the truck here to check for sure. The check engine light had been on previously while driving.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
I would try a different scan tool,it can be a number of items on this type of vehicle and without pulling codes or verifying the ECM has a problem I wouldnt go further.best to have a shop look into this for you.There isnt much you can do on your own repair wise without numerous special service tools.
HDGENE, Ford Senior Master/Diesel/Trans
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 3560
Experience: 23 years Auto experience, Ford ,GM, Chrysler, Asian & European
HDGENE and 11 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to HDGENE's Post: That's the first thing I did. Itried two different scan tools and then hooked them up to another vehicle and they worked fine.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
Are they CAN compliant scan tools?They must be in order to communicate with the 6.0 liter.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
yes
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
Then you would have to check powers and grounds to the pcm and run a diagnostic check on the data link connector to see if other modules on the network are working and communicating with each other by running a network test with a scan tool.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
It won't let me run any test with the scan tool.I tried running different tests and kept coming up no communication.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
Do you have power to pin #16 on the Data link connector?Lower row of pins in the corner?Last pin.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
I WILL CHECK AND GET BACK TO YOU.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
Ok let me know because most scan tools wont communicate without power on pin 16.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to HDGENE's Post: OK, I'm back. The check engine light comes on with the key and stays lit when cranking,does not flash.There IS power on pin # XXXXX on the diagnostic connector.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
OK, I'm back. The check engine light comes on with the key and stays lit when cranking,does not flash.There IS power on pin # XXXXX on the diagnostic connector
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
Is this a 250,550? What kind of scan tools are you using, just curious.How many miles are on this truck and have you had any repairs done to it recently.Post your VIN number so I can run a few concise checks.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to HDGENE's Post: Snap-on scan tools - F250 super duty 6.0, standard shift,4x4 - 1FTSX21P95EB18697
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
I worked at Ford for 12 years Ford and a.s.e. certified but I didn't work on a lot of diesels
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.

Ok lets see if you can identify the fault with the communication end.Below is the PCED pinpoint test that you should be familiar with using:

AE: Unable to Activate Self-Test - Network Communication Error


AE1 CARRY OUT A VEHICLE INSPECTION AND VERIFY THE SELF-TEST PROCEDURE

    Note: The diagnostic tool resets if battery voltage is less than 9.5 volts. If carrying out repeated self-tests, disable the glow plug control module (GPCM) and disregard the glow plug codes while GPCM is disabled. If equipped with a power take-off (PTO) system, it must be disabled while carrying out the PCM self-tests.

  • Check the battery voltage. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 414-00 Charging System - General Information.
  • Verify that the correct procedure was used to activate the self-test for the diagnostic tool. Refer to Section 2 Diagnostic Methods.

Was the correct self-test procedure used?

Yes No
GO to AE2. REFER to Section 2 for the correct operating procedures.

AE2 CARRY OUT THE DATA LINK DIAGNOSTICS TEST

  • Connect the diagnostic tool.
  • Key ON, engine OFF.
  • Carry out the data link diagnostics test.

Is system passed obtained?

Yes No
REFER to Section 3 Quick Test. If all electronic control units no response/not equipped, GO to AE3 .

If PCM no response/not equipped, GO to AE3 .

If no response from the diagnostic tool, REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 418-00 Module Communications Network to continue no response from the diagnostic tool diagnosis.

AE3 CHECK THE PCM VPWR CIRCUITS FOR VOLTAGE

  • Key OFF.
  • Disconnect the PCM C1381a (F-Super Duty/Excursion) or C176a (E-Series).
  • Key ON, engine OFF.
  • Measure the voltage between the PCM C1381a (F-Super Duty/Excursion) or C176a (E-Series) pin 34 and 46, harness side and ground.

Are the voltages greater than 10.5 volts?

Yes No
GO to AE4 . GO to Pinpoint Test A .

AE4 CHECK THE PCM GROUND CIRCUITS FOR AN OPEN

  • Key OFF.
  • Measure the resistances between the PCM connector, harness side and ground as follows:

    VehicleConnectorPinPinPin
    F-Super Duty / ExcursionC1381a101123
    E-SeriesC176a101123

Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?

Yes No
GO to AE5 . REPAIR the circuit in question. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

AE5 CHECK THE VREF CIRCUITS FOR A SHORT TO GROUND

  • Disconnect the PCM C1381c (F-Super Duty/Excursion) or C176c (E-Series).
  • Measure the resistance between the PCM C1381c (F-Super Duty/Excursion) or C176c (E-Series) pin 36, harness side and ground.
  • Measure the resistance between the PCM C1381a (F-Super Duty/Excursion) or C176a (E-Series) pins 29 and 45, harness side and ground.

Are the resistances greater than 10,000 ohms?

Yes No
For Excursion, GO to AE6

For F-Superduty/E-Series, REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 418-00 Module Communications Network to continue no communication with the PCM diagnosis.
REPAIR the circuit in question. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

AE6 CHECK FOR VOLTAGE AT THE MAP SENSOR

    Note: If a sensor is shorted internally the reference voltage will be within the specification when the sensor in question is disconnected.

  • Connect all the PCM connectors.
  • Disconnect the MAP sensor C1087.
  • Key ON, engine OFF.
  • Measure the voltage between the MAP sensor C1087 pin 1 and pin 3, harness side.

Is the voltage between 4.5-5.5 volts?

Yes No
GO to AE7 . GO to AE8 .

AE7 CHECK FOR VOLTAGE AT THE EOT SENSOR

    Note: If a sensor is shorted internally the reference voltage will be within the specification when the sensor in question is disconnected.

  • Key OFF.
  • Connect the MAP sensor C1087.
  • Disconnect the EOT sensor C104.
  • Key ON, engine OFF.
  • Measure the voltage between the EOT sensor C104 pin 2 and pin 1, harness side.

Is the voltage between 4.5-5.5 volts?

Yes No
REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 418-00 Module Communications Network to continue no communication with the PCM diagnosis. INSTALL a new MAP sensor. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

AE8 CHECK FOR VREF SHORTED TO SIG RTN.

    Note: If a sensor or actuator is shorted internally the reference voltage will be within the specification when the sensor or actuator in question is disconnected.

  • Key OFF.
  • Disconnect the water in fuel sensor C1080, ECT sensor C1064, IAT2 sensor C1236, MAF sensor C128, ICP sensor C1244, EP sensor C1271, EGR valve temperature sensor C1448, and the EGR valve actuator C1389.
  • Key ON, engine OFF.
  • Measure the voltage between the MAP sensor C1087 pin 1 and pin 3, harness side.

Is the voltage between 4.5-5.5 volts?

Yes No
GO to AE9 . REPAIR the VREF shorted to SIG RTN in the harness. CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

AE9 MEASURE AND RECORD THE VOLTAGE

    Note: Monitor the voltage change while connecting the sensors and the actuator. If a sensor or actuator is shorted internally the reference voltage will not be within the specification when the sensor or actuator in question is connected.

  • Connect the sensors and the actuator disconnected in the previous step, one at a time, while measuring the voltage between the MAP sensor C1087 pin 1 and pin 3, harness side.
  • Key ON, engine OFF.

Is the voltage between 4.5-5.5 volts?

Yes No
REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 418-00 Module Communications Network to continue no communication with the PCM diagnosis. INSTALL a new sensor or actuator in question.

AE: Unable to Activate Self-Test - Network Communication Error
Introduction


 

This pinpoint test is intended to diagnose only the following:

  • Harness circuits: ground, VPWR, and reference voltage (VREF)

CAUTION: The PCM harness connectors must be properly seated and the connector latch properly attached to eliminate possible driveability concerns or a no start condition. Installing the PCM connectors on an angle may cause an improper connection, misdiagnosis, and damaged components. Install the connector until the lever pivots and seats itself. Apply light pressure to get the connector into position on the PCM and then fully seat the connector.

Note: Visually inspect the harness connectors for corrosion, damage, proper mating, and correct pin tension.


 

Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Where is the PCM located on this year truck?
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.

Drivers side fender as shown in the picture below:

graphic

Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to HDGENE's Post: 175,000 MILES - NEVER WORKED ON. OIL FIELD TRUCK BEAT FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
The test above is basically what you would run through for no communication to the pcm, keep in mind this also uses a FICMmodule ot control the injectors. If you havent done much work on one, get ready for a learning experience,these trucks were plagued with issues with alot of wire harness chafing problems around the intake manifold all around the top of the engine and so on.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to HDGENE's Post: Thanks for the info.Iworked on several 7.3 but not the 6.0 - Would this chafing shut one down just like you turned the key off? The guy that was driving it said it didn't miss,buck,jerk,nothing. It was like you turned the key off.
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
Anything is possible but it should not cause no communication with the PCM.
HDGENE, Ford Senior Master/Diesel/Trans
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 3560
Experience: 23 years Auto experience, Ford ,GM, Chrysler, Asian & European
HDGENE and 11 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
Reply to HDGENE's Post: I will check all of this and get back to you again. thanks
Expert:  HDGENE replied 7 years ago.
No problem, let me know what you find and if you need more assistance.,

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HDGENE
HDGENE
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23 years Auto experience, Ford ,GM, Chrysler, Asian & European