I want to know how much a US 1911 45 cal pistol made by US Switch and Signal with the very rare twin P maker's marks is worth
Thank you for using Just Answer!I'm trying to find something on that 1911A1. Are those double-P's a double-stamp on the top of the slide near the rear sight?Philip
The P is stamped on top of the gun and on the handle to the left. According to the history, this makes this gun very rare because not many of them were stamped with a double P
You can document this by accessing the history of US Switch and Signal online they are located in Swissvale Pa or were. They only produced 55,000 guns which makes it the second rarest in the series and the Twin Ps were a mistake quickly corrected
If it helps the serial number is XXXXX from the last of the guns made by USS
USS also had the reputation as the only manufacturer that had zero rejects due to their excellent machining
The gun can be identified not only by its serial number but the logo on the gun with a Big U with Double SS in the U
Obviously this makes this gun VERY RARE
I am familiar with the rarity of the US&S guns, but the double-P threw me as I thought you were referring to a double-stamp, causing a blurred "P".The "P" didn't appear on either side nor frame from S/N(NNN) NNN-NNNNthrough(NNN) NNN-NNNNFrom about(NNN) NNN-NNNNthrough(NNN) NNN-NNNN the "P" appeared on both the side and frame, but the "P" on the slide was off to the left - right were the curve is on the slide.After(NNN) NNN-NNNN the "P" was on the slide and frame, but was properly centered on the slide, lined up in front of the rear sight.The US&S 1911A1s are indeed more valuable than most of the 1911A1s due to overall rarity and to their quality. There is no special prices for guns with or without the "P"s or with an off-center "P" on the side, however.The military version of the Colt Model 1911A1 is a semi-automatic pistol chambered in .45 ACP, has a 5 inch barrel, fixed sights, a 7 shot magazine, a flat main spring housing, a bright blue finish up to serial 780000 and parkerized after that, with checkered walnut grips. There were approximately 1,543,068 manufactured between 1924 and 1945 by a variety of manufacturers. The slide is marked "M1911A1 U.S. ARMY."If you gun has not been reworked at an arsenal, the retail values for a Union Switch & Signal M1911A1 are as follows:Excellent: $5,400-$6,600Very Good: $3,600-$4,200Good: $1,800-$2,640If your gun has been reworked (there will be arsenal markings on the left side behind or above the trigger, such as AA, SA, or RIA), here are the retail values for a Union Switch & Signal:Excellent: $1,620-$2,160Very Good: $1,195-$1,470Good: $750-$980I hope this helps. If you are satisfied with my answer, please click the "accept" button. Thanks!PhilipPhilip Van Cleave41082.7714100347
Your answer contradicts the answer on the internet history stating that it is a very rare collectible gun and that there were not that many guns stamped with the double P
You are correct that the US&S guns are relatively rare, with only 55,000 made. Here is some information from one source that is online that addresses the "P" markings:US&S 1911A1sFrom that link:U.S.&S. pistols are the second rarest of the M1911A1s (55,000 produced), only the Singer is rarer (500 produced). None of the Union Switch & Signal 1911A1s have the crossed cannons ordnance stamp even thought the practice was standardized in late 1942. Also most of the early pistols up through about serial(NNN) NNN-NNNNreceived no “P” proof on the slide and frame. From about (NNN) NNN-NNNNto about(NNN) NNN-NNNN the “P” proof was applied, but at the Left edge of the slide where the curved part meets the flat. This was due to a poorly drawn ordnance drawing showing the placement of the proof. From about (NNN) NNN-NNNNto the end of production, the “P” was placed in its normal location on the top of the slide (center in front of rear sight). When the "P" proof mark is found it will be on both the slide and receiver and be of the same size. Notice the "P" proof stamp is smaller then Colts but still an uppercase letter.I have now checked another source, the Standard Catalog of Military Firearms. They confirm the above information. Pricing is not affected by the "P" markings (or lack there of, either). The rarity of US&S guns is worked into the pricing.If you can send me a link to something that contradicts these references, I would like to review it.PhilipPhilip Van Cleave41082.8061777778
We bought the gun at an estate auction. It was out in the garage and had surface rust. We have removed that and want to get it re-blued and we also need to replace the safety which had been broken off. Before we get it reblued we need to know if that will negatively impact the gun's value like refinishing antique furniture?
CAUTION- REFINISHING DOES LOWER THE VALUE OF A COLLECTIBLE GUN!However, if the gun is in "poor" condition, then that is not true necessarily. Here is how you determine the grade of a non-antique gun:Excellent- the gun must have at least 95% of the original finish on the metal, stock and grip. The gun must be in 100% working order and in 100% original factory condition without refinishing, repair, alterations, or additions of any kind. The gun's sights must also be factory original.Very good - the gun must have at least 80% of the original finish on the metal, stock and grip and be in working order. The gun must be 100% original factory original, but may have small repairs, alterations, or non-factory additions. No refinishing is permitted.Good - the gun must have 60% finish on the wood and metal, but may display evidence of old refinishing. Small repairs, alterations, and non-factory additions are sometimes found. Factory replacement parts are permitted. The overall working condition of the firearm must be good, as well as safe. The bore may exhibit some wear or corrosion.Fair - the gun must have at least 20% finish on the metal and wood. Guns with repairs, non-factory additions, alterations, or with recent refinishing fall into this category. The gun must be in working order.Poor - the gun has little or no finish (under 20%), pitting and rust will be visible, and the gun may not be in working order or even safe to shoot. Guns in this category are mostly good for their spare parts and not much else.Philip
THE original finish was gun metal grey with no evidence of blueing but simply a grew finish. You gave me the determination of a non antique gun, obviously this is an antique gun or is it since it was manufactured in 1944
Antique guns, by law, are those made on or before 1898.The grey finish is a parkerized finish. If it is parkerized, then either it is a non-reworked gun whose serial number is XXXXXX or greater, or it has been refinished at an arsenal (look for arsenal marks on the left side behind or above the trigger, such as AA, SA, or RIA).Philip
Can we reparkerize the finish, it is not a reworked gun as there are no marks on the gun indicating that it is a reworked gun or do we just buff it up with steel wool
If you would say the gun is already in "fair" condition, then you could refinish it, which would leave it in "fair" condition. If the gun is in very good or higher, then refinishing it would not be a good idea.Philip